[scalbert]

Originally Posted by judec

Not arguing. Just answering as much as I can.
The question was:
"Does it throw CEL's?"
"No"
"Why not, if there's no cat between the 2 O2 sensors?"
.... I answered... that's all. If U're happy about my explanations, fine. If not, np, too. Just tried to help

I had thought the second set of sensors was behind the main cats?

If not, then why did they even bother putting the second set of sensors in.

Truly, I am just curious.

[judec]

Well, I guess the complete removal of the secondary sensors would definitely throw a CEL

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by judec

Well, I guess the complete removal of the secondary sensors would definitely throw a CEL

ahah yea for sure!!!!

there woudlnt be any AFR reading at all and basicly it would make your car run rich as all hell!

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by judec

Well, I guess the complete removal of the secondary sensors would definitely throw a CEL

True, but now I read your response correctly.

Technically, the removal if a cat should set off a DTC based on federal (here in the US) OBDII mandates. On the opposite end, a clogging cat should set DTC's. Both had previously been based on a different switching frequencies (even though the amplitude remained the same).

However, if there is no swithing occuring in these sensor I can see how no DTC would be set and is why I want to look at the actual signals to see what they do in the real world.

Anyway, interesting topic...

[E90Russ]

That's a lot of HP for a pretty simple mod!

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by E90Russ

That's a lot of HP for a pretty simple mod!

best thing you can ever do for a turbo car. well a "chip" also.

[IMJUSS2NASTY]

When can we order?

[CASHBY]

just spoke with a friend who does Smogs at a smog shop...

if you leave secondary cats in and take primary out...he said yo will still most likely pass smog and still have the HP and TQ gains.... so there is your answer for people concerned about smog!

[itsbrokeagain]

Originally Posted by CEA 3

Again, im not sure myself, I do know it will be in that range... might even be less than that

not trying to make a huge profit here... just want to have products out for our cars!

after talking with him online, shooting for a price under 4 digits is what will make everyone happy. If you figure the man hours cost of a guy hand welding all the pipes together and then selling them, plus cost of materials, in order to make any profit to offset the money he is losing by not doing other work in the shop, it runs up VERY quickly. These are getting robot-welded together, which save time, less deviation in the original design, and come out a lot nicer.

I had gone over with people in the business by me, and its very hard to keep the price of hand made parts down. When you figure in $90 an hour for shop labor, the time it takes to get the pipes lined up properly and then welded together (which can take somewhere from 3-5 hours minimum), the time to pay that person to weld (say if it was me at $22 an hour), and then parts. We had considered using 321 stainless because its higher quality steel over 304 and its easier to weld to and make pretty, but it doesnt polish up like 304 because it does not have a high silicon content. Not to mention its stupid expensive ($20 something a foot, but 304 is about $15). Then you figure in 02 bungs and flanges, V bands which will run you minimum 40 each, if not more, and the laser cut flanges probably another 25-40 each. So we are looking at give or take $750-790 bare cost.

Then you work that into the rest of the shop time, the time hes losing because I could be working on another job that pays way more money to him, but its sitting there because im welding downpipes. In order for us to make downpipes for the public and still break somewhat just even to cover the shops untilities and rent, etc, we were looking at almost $1600, because we get so much work in the shop that its easier to turn that work in and out than sit welding all day....it just was not profitable.

Hes doing us a favor by having these things mass produced by Riss. That cuts time down, cuts down labor costs by having a robot do the work instead of paying a guy to do it, and since its not produced in house, it allows them to cut that cost out of the picture because their guy can spend time working on other things instead of that. Hes working to cut costs down as much as he can and still turn a slight profit for Riss because of all the R and D they did, (not a million dollars like some people assume because of that logo on the hood)


I would hope for the price to sit somewhere from $800-$950.

[PresaMat]

I have talked to CEA3 and Anthony from Riss. Both seem to really know their stuff and seem to really be wanting to provide quality pieces at a good price. I for one cant wait for the products to be ready! Everyone has been asking for these parts then when people start making them everyone starts complaining that they arent $100. I would rather pay 700-1000 then 3000 any day!

Mat

[grkm3]

I have ran no cats in my M3 and used AA tuning 02 simlulators.You guys migh want to add those to kill any long term problems that might come up.

[MspiredM3]

Nice stuff Charlie! Looks like a very promosing product!

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by MspiredM3

Nice stuff Charlie! Looks like a very promosing product!

Thanks Man! We are eager to get this thing released to everyone!

[JmanE55]

I am about to purchase the Eisenman exhaust but I will hold out for your product. Please sign me up.

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by JmanE55

I am about to purchase the Eisenman exhaust but I will hold out for your product. Please sign me up.

having both will Eiseman exhaust and our Downpipe, I will assure you that youll make more power than we made!

but will for sure put you down for first batch.

[jamb]

Sounds Good, Sign me up!!!

[bnj]

CEA 3, I don't know if tapering down to 2.75" and having a flange of 2.5" makes sense.

The stuff you do for the community is great. Waiting for the news on the intake as well. We (the community) need to cooperate to get a map to be matched to all the mods. There seems to be more demand than the responses to your original inquiry in the forum, which is a good sign regarding the other mods as well.

I believe a marginal cost of one pair of downpipes is not much. So it might make sense to think of a volume based pricing. Makes sense to sell 50 at a low price rather than 10 at a high price. A robot makes them fast =cheap and the material cost is not much per dp. One big batch is more economical in logistics and in setting up the robot & material.

I'm very excited and waiting an answer from Anthony regarding the mismatch between the tapering-to dimension and the flange.

I greatly appreciate your input and enthusiasm.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain

after talking with him online, shooting for a price under 4 digits is what will make everyone happy. If you figure the man hours cost of a guy hand welding all the pipes together and then selling them, plus cost of materials, in order to make any profit to offset the money he is losing by not doing other work in the shop, it runs up VERY quickly. These are getting robot-welded together, which save time, less deviation in the original design, and come out a lot nicer.

I had gone over with people in the business by me, and its very hard to keep the price of hand made parts down. When you figure in $90 an hour for shop labor, the time it takes to get the pipes lined up properly and then welded together (which can take somewhere from 3-5 hours minimum), the time to pay that person to weld (say if it was me at $22 an hour), and then parts. We had considered using 321 stainless because its higher quality steel over 304 and its easier to weld to and make pretty, but it doesnt polish up like 304 because it does not have a high silicon content. Not to mention its stupid expensive ($20 something a foot, but 304 is about $15). Then you figure in 02 bungs and flanges, V bands which will run you minimum 40 each, if not more, and the laser cut flanges probably another 25-40 each. So we are looking at give or take $750-790 bare cost.

Then you work that into the rest of the shop time, the time hes losing because I could be working on another job that pays way more money to him, but its sitting there because im welding downpipes. In order for us to make downpipes for the public and still break somewhat just even to cover the shops untilities and rent, etc, we were looking at almost $1600, because we get so much work in the shop that its easier to turn that work in and out than sit welding all day....it just was not profitable.

Hes doing us a favor by having these things mass produced by Riss. That cuts time down, cuts down labor costs by having a robot do the work instead of paying a guy to do it, and since its not produced in house, it allows them to cut that cost out of the picture because their guy can spend time working on other things instead of that. Hes working to cut costs down as much as he can and still turn a slight profit for Riss because of all the R and D they did, (not a million dollars like some people assume because of that logo on the hood)


I would hope for the price to sit somewhere from $800-$950.

Sounds reasonable to me?!?!?

[Riss Racing]

Originally Posted by bnj

CEA 3, I don't know if tapering down to 2.75" and having a flange of 2.5" makes sense.

The stuff you do for the community is great. Waiting for the news on the intake as well. We (the community) need to cooperate to get a map to be matched to all the mods. There seems to be more demand than the responses to your original inquiry in the forum, which is a good sign regarding the other mods as well.

I believe a marginal cost of one pair of downpipes is not much. So it might make sense to think of a volume based pricing. Makes sense to sell 50 at a low price rather than 10 at a high price. A robot makes them fast =cheap and the material cost is not much per dp. One big batch is more economical in logistics and in setting up the robot & material.

I'm very excited and waiting an answer from Anthony regarding the mismatch between the tapering-to dimension and the flange.

I greatly appreciate your input and enthusiasm.

We can have this product go directly to 3in, and to be honest with you I'd rather do this. The cost is more per unit to get the taper so we can fit to OEM exhaust. However, there is not a large demand for 3in exhaust. From what I've seen the fitment isn't quite there for the exhaust, and people that have installed it are having issues. However at 2.75in we may find that sweet spot in exhaust size. Or you can keep your OEM exhaust as it will bolt up no problem with the universal flange. Making everybody happy with one product is impossible. So what I will do is order one offs for the people that want the 3in. Thanks for the constructive comment!

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by bnj

CEA 3, I don't know if tapering down to 2.75" and having a flange of 2.5" makes sense.

The stuff you do for the community is great. Waiting for the news on the intake as well. We (the community) need to cooperate to get a map to be matched to all the mods. There seems to be more demand than the responses to your original inquiry in the forum, which is a good sign regarding the other mods as well.

I believe a marginal cost of one pair of downpipes is not much. So it might make sense to think of a volume based pricing. Makes sense to sell 50 at a low price rather than 10 at a high price. A robot makes them fast =cheap and the material cost is not much per dp. One big batch is more economical in logistics and in setting up the robot & material.

I'm very excited and waiting an answer from Anthony regarding the mismatch between the tapering-to dimension and the flange.

I greatly appreciate your input and enthusiasm.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH PRICING! That is exactly what they are trying to do, also they are going to do a group buy and you know how those go...the more people we get the cheaper they are because It cost a lot more to make 50 than it does to make 100.

... and Yea, your right, this was a bigger turn out than the previous post I made for people to see who was interested.

as far as the flanges go...they just made it so it can bolt to stock and aftermarket 2.5 inch flanges. The flange they have on is a universal flange so it works perfect for all exaust systems on our car.

I appreciate your input and feedback as well..keep it coming brotha!

[derryck]

I like the fact that we can bolt on the stock cat-back and still see some nice gains while not making the car too loud. I can't wait for this product to become available. I believe SuperSprint is the only company to offer a full exhaust for the 335 and they are just raping people for it. I called them on it and asked them why it was so expensive and they said because they're the only ones in the game at the moment. I have SuperSprint headers on my M3 and love them but you would have to be an idiot to spend $7-8K on a full exhaust for this car which is what they want.

[rallycobra]

Originally Posted by derryck

I like the fact that we can bolt on the stock cat-back and still see some nice gains while not making the car too loud.

+1 Brother! HP increase, and no drone.

I have always regretted changing exhaust systems in daily drivers. A downpipe will be a nice mod.