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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      11-15-2008, 04:26 AM   #2751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 767jetz View Post
That would be an apology not an excuse. And yes... you do. Apology accepted.
Correct. Sorry for my bad english. About the needed apology:

When I read shaddai's and RBBMWE46M3's last postings, I am not so sure about that. I repeat: Despite BMW saying that MSD81 software never had the wastegate rattle fix, I really doubt that those cars were completely like the MSD80 with pre-v29.2. Very close, but not completely.
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      11-15-2008, 05:17 AM   #2752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Correct. Sorry for my bad english. About the needed apology:

When I read shaddai's and RBBMWE46M3's last postings, I am not so sure about that. I repeat: Despite BMW saying that MSD81 software never had the wastegate rattle fix, I really doubt that those cars were completely like the MSD80 with pre-v29.2. Very close, but not completely.
I've never driven a pre 29.2 car so I'm having to interpret views on how they perform to judge how my MSD81 30.0.2 delivers. Being totally subjective I have the opinion that my car has something like 25% of the problem that the original gang of six talk about. It's hard to know and quite probably there's a threshold of detuning/lag that once crossed totally frustrates. Even 150ms is 1.5 of a tenth of a secornd, add this to the normal delay between pressing the throttle and response we could be talking about a total delay of say 3/10ths to 5/10ths of second - annoying.

As I drive my car more I find I'm using over 3,000 revs more often because there's more happening up there. My gut feel is that 80% of the torque is present 2000 to 3000 rpm.
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      11-15-2008, 05:59 AM   #2753
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To RBBMWE46M3 (your post #2748)

My car is 05/08 and my HPFP was replaced just 1 week after taking delivery, approx. 400 miles. My software is E89X-08-03-530 acc. to my dealer.

When I discussed my problem with “Autobild” for their artikel I was told according to talks between BMW and “Autobild” that some US Models could have been delivered with the MSD80 instead of MSD81 (They cleaned up their shelves !!). BMW wants to contact me within the next 2 weeks to solve (?) my problem, they will check to find out what MSD was put in my car.
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      11-15-2008, 07:16 AM   #2754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan View Post
To RBBMWE46M3 (your post #2748)

My car is 05/08 and my HPFP was replaced just 1 week after taking delivery, approx. 400 miles. My software is E89X-08-03-530 acc. to my dealer.

When I discussed my problem with “Autobild” for their artikel I was told according to talks between BMW and “Autobild” that some US Models could have been delivered with the MSD80 instead of MSD81 (They cleaned up their shelves !!). BMW wants to contact me within the next 2 weeks to solve (?) my problem, they will check to find out what MSD was put in my car.
+1

How can I tell what MSD is really in my car? vin? lift ecu cover? You would think after reading every friggin post in here at least twice I should know, less asking my phsysciactric service department what version I have...
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      11-15-2008, 07:48 AM   #2755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan View Post
To RBBMWE46M3 (your post #2748)
When I discussed my problem with “Autobild” for their artikel I was told according to talks between BMW and “Autobild” that some US Models could have been delivered with the MSD80 instead of MSD81 (They cleaned up their shelves !!). BMW wants to contact me within the next 2 weeks to solve (?) my problem, they will check to find out what MSD was put in my car.
It is not only US cars that have been delivered with MSD80 after 03/08. Matter-of-fact, there are at least some 135i built after 03/08 that still have MSD80. So, to be exact, build date 03/08 is no sharp criterion for having MSD81 vs MSD80.
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      11-15-2008, 06:01 PM   #2756
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      11-15-2008, 07:20 PM   #2757
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After so many pages of distillation, how do we proceed?
Would a petition to BMW, formally announced, and also presented to international media sources, be a good course of action?
I think the illumination of this issue is the biggest leverage we may have.
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      11-15-2008, 08:50 PM   #2758
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This issue is still going without any change...
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      11-15-2008, 09:16 PM   #2759
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Hey all. Just read about the motorbild article. If that is accurate then things could get busy around the dealerships in the us very soon. I already emailed some people to let them know about it.
I am a little spun from dealing with the stealer yesterday and being told I close my hood the wrong way and thats why my hood is bent. Is the article saaying that BMW is basically going to put the ecu back to a pre 29.2 condition? THat is what I got from what I read but wanted to verify that I am not missing something.
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      11-15-2008, 10:12 PM   #2760
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Just keep pressing this issue to your dealership and most of all your rep at BMWNA. We are only a small part of the 335 community so the more of us that make some noise the better. I make several phone calls a week and I encourage all of you to do the same until this is resolved. This is encouraging news that we have heard this past weekend but who knows what will really happen and most importantly how long it will take for BMW to provide resolution.

On a side note can someone please PM me or post a link to this motorbild article. I need to send this to my reps.
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      11-15-2008, 11:39 PM   #2761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 767jetz View Post
That would be an apology not an excuse. And yes... you do. Apology accepted.
Where are all the apologies from the jerks who tried to tell all of us that we didn't have any lag? Now there is written proof of what we have known all along.

Reading comprehension assistance: MSD81's DO have lag in comparison to pre-29.2, but it is less noticeable. Those MY08 owners who read carefully and reported accurate results, clearly had symptoms of lag, albeit more subdued than that which was experienced by us MY07 owners.

I already have new turbos and new wastegates, but still have The Lag. I am wondering if this new software fix will bump me to the old standard (300 lb ft from 1400 upward) or the new standard (1700 upward.)

Not to mention the fact that the new turbos still rattle and the exhaust still sounds like shit. Growing unhappier and more disillusioned every day this is not fixed...
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      11-16-2008, 05:36 AM   #2762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iScream View Post
Where are all the apologies from the jerks who tried to tell all of us that we didn't have any lag? Now there is written proof of what we have known all along.

Reading comprehension assistance: MSD81's DO have lag in comparison to pre-29.2, but it is less noticeable. Those MY08 owners who read carefully and reported accurate results, clearly had symptoms of lag, albeit more subdued than that which was experienced by us MY07 owners.
Yup, albeit BMW's official response is that it is only 150ms and should go unnoticed. But at least they will downgrade by the end of the year. And they claim that MSD81 never had any wastegate behaviour change, which I still doubt. THAT may be the really sad part for MSD81 owners - they can get no fix at all. However, most of them never really had a problem, had they? My apologies in advance for this faux pas.

BTW: MY08 had MSD80 until 03/08. Mine has.

Quote:
I already have new turbos and new wastegates, but still have The Lag. I am wondering if this new software fix will bump me to the old standard (300 lb ft from 1400 upward) or the new standard (1700 upward.)

Not to mention the fact that the new turbos still rattle and the exhaust still sounds like shit. Growing unhappier and more disillusioned every day this is not fixed...
If it is a real downgrade, it will bump you up to the old standard (remember, I had the old software on and it did). It is another question what they will do about the rattle when it comes along. But since the software fix wasn't successful in your specific case, they will have to fix the hardware anyway, if you're within the warranty period. Strange thing is that your new turbos still rattle with any software.

Last edited by meyergru; 11-16-2008 at 06:12 AM..
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      11-16-2008, 07:05 AM   #2763
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As I mentioned HERE... I can´t feel any difference on the new car produced in september/oktober -08 vs my old car that where produced in june -07. Good and imediate power when i´m hitting the accelerator. Both cars are manual transmission ones. Though the new car is a little little smoother at 1000-1500 rpm, where the old one tended to jerk a little. Also the new one is very quiet...
Sincerely Marcus
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      11-16-2008, 11:32 AM   #2764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
If it is a real downgrade, it will bump you up to the old standard (remember, I had the old software on and it did). It is another question what they will do about the rattle when it comes along. But since the software fix wasn't successful in your specific case, they will have to fix the hardware anyway, if you're within the warranty period. Strange thing is that your new turbos still rattle with any software.
Perhaps I got new OLD turbos? That would seem ridiculous, since it was only about a month ago, but I guess it's possible.

See, I think part of the "rattle" is actually caused by 29.2. I had no signs of rattle before the update, and then suddenly I got an overall metallic sounding exhaust note and these clanking and cranking sounds. The one consistent factor since then: the software.
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      11-16-2008, 11:40 PM   #2765
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I am taking my car for service this week. Squeak at low speed and oil change is due.

I am on 30.0.2, last time when I complaint about turbo lag I was given the standard answer that technician test drove and there is no error code found so car is working as designed. I am taking my car to a different location (same dealer) this time.

Any suggestion on what should I say so that atleast they can look into it. I don't what to mention the word "turbo lag". How about car hesitates when I pushing gas from stop. Anything you guys can suggest that might help me getting the 31.1 which I guess slightly improved the lag issue.

Thanks
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      11-17-2008, 12:04 AM   #2766
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Good luck getting an update munu. I just tried doing that on Friday and failed. The car does not throw a code nor can the techs feel the bloody lag... Thus no update. The sa mentioned I could pay for the update but didn't want me to do it.

Good luck, but don't hold your breath.

Last edited by shaddai; 11-17-2008 at 11:06 AM.. Reason: stupid iPhone auto correcting keyboard - "Thus" is a word dammit!
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      11-17-2008, 11:04 AM   #2767
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I would not bother paying for v31, wait for v32 and see if it provides the promised fix.
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      11-17-2008, 11:05 AM   #2768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I would not bother paying for v31, wait for v32 and see if it provides the promised fix.
Reminds me of the joke "how do you keep a blonde in suspense?"

Ask me again next month.
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      11-17-2008, 12:06 PM   #2769
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Here the autobild article:
http://rapidshare.de/files/40932182/autobild.pdf.html
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      11-17-2008, 12:12 PM   #2770
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Here the file in another location
Please help if filehosting is wrong...

http://www.gofileshare.com/download.php?id=F29900E7
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      11-17-2008, 12:43 PM   #2771
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Mr. 5 has an interesting thread in which he describes how to tighten the actuator rod to eliminate the rattling. But his experience with pre- and post- PROGMAN 29.x indicates a different pattern of rattling, with the pre- versions resulting in the deceleration rattle (rev in neutral to 3k and let off gas and buzzzz). Now I am confused. I took my car in with the wastegate rattle last spring -- early April -- and I was pretty certain that they PROGMANed me. Ticking was gone for a while, but returned, and is clearly noticeable now when I rev and let off. I assumed that I got PROGMAN 29.x -- I noticed a slight power loss, pretty much across the board, but no special lag at low rpm. But from Mr.5's description, it sounds like I still have a pre-29 version. I clearly have the open wastegate farty exhaust sound, and the rattle on deceleration.

Now I am thinking that what I might have lost was my initial hot tune, but got 28.x ??? Regardless, I am waiting to have my actuators replaced when 32.x is released next month.
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      11-17-2008, 12:54 PM   #2772
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Stress and others, here's my take on the 29.2 "cure" for the wg's which might help explain how/why you WERE likely 29.2'd and yet have rattling again. We all know that 29.2 was a halfassed BANDAID of a fix for a real hardware problem. Essentially, it was putting a piece of chewing gum onto a pipe with a leak. Yeah, it works right away, and seems to fix the problem on the surface (no more pipe leak/no more wg rattle), HOWEVER, behind the "fix" the REAL cause of the problem is actually WORSENING. That hole behind the chewing gum is still corroding way and getting bigger. Eventually, the gum can't fix it anymore and there's a worse leak than ever. I speculate that, while 29.2 did mask the initial rattling, the wastegates' rods continue to operate, of course, under normal driving, just not in such a "stressed" manner as before 29.2. Wear and tear is still occuring and the rods are moving in and out, loosening up the nut on the rod. By the time it is loose enough to rattle WITH 29.2, it is REALLY loose. Hope this makes sense.

You know, it still hurts my head that I swear BMW could have just taken friggin blue LOK-TITE and fixed all of this mess with $0.15 in material and $20 in labor by simply painting the rod threads with it and re-tightening the nut on the rod.
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