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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Help with Info -- over my head



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      08-24-2018, 06:43 PM   #1
milfriez
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Help with Info -- over my head

Long story short took car in to shop to upgrade turbos.

Was given estimate of 3 days. Here I am 6 weeks later, an arsenal of "this is wrong, this is wrong, need to fix this now" and I am now being told my engine is basically toast.

Went from turbos upgraded, to oil pan gasket, to vanos issues, to crankshaft sensors, to rear main seal, to timing chain, to sprockets, to camshaft, and finally resting on the fact that he believes there was work done previously that someone botched, and tried to cover up using JBWeld because they cross threaded the bolt and said the crank hub was damaged. Told me easy fix, not the end of the world. Two days later, now I'm being told the car is toast, and to cut my losses and return all the parts for a refund, and sell my car ASAP.

What do I do? I bought the car a 2007 335xi with 65k on the odometer and when it went to the shop it had around 100k on it, i've owned it for around 3 years. No engine issues aside from the common failures of N54 and some preventative maintenance I've done. I've put endless amount of money into maintenance. Thermostat, water pump, HPFP, H/L pressure sensors, all new injectors, brand new coils and plugs, replaced all boost lines, new PCV valve, the turbos were not smoking, but rattling like crazy, and not holding boost very well, which is why I wanted to replace them. Prior to sending the car over, I also installed a brand new FMIC, CP and BOV, and JB4 was put onto it about a year ago.

Now I'm being told my car is basically scrap, there is no way to correct the issue without significant time and money investment in it. When it went there, I was not having any issues aside from the occasional 30FF when I really stomped it merging into traffic. At this point, the parts on the car and maintenance are worth way more than the measly $4k I would squeeze out of it.

My question is, since I don't have many maintenance records prior to my purchase of it at 65k and there were zero indicators it had ever been raced or abused, how likely is it that a timing chain, cams, and crank hub would have been spun and then supposedly JBWelded back together? Story just doesn't seem to add up. Not to mention that it took 6 weeks to discover this? And prior to today, the car was "ready to go, just need a quick test drive" and then it was "sorry this thing is not worth any more money"

What do I do? Suggestions? Opinions? Ideas of crank hub failure that early on? I've heard it being an issue on highly modified high-torque cars, but mine was a DD and running fine aside from turbo rattle and 30FF prior to bringing it in. Help

Last edited by milfriez; 08-24-2018 at 09:44 PM. Reason: punctuation
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      08-24-2018, 07:43 PM   #2
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I would tell shop you want your old turbos put back on and you havent said if they are asking for money for the other work they did. Honestly sounds like they may have damaged and tried to fix but why not just throw used engine in. Need better timeline of which parts were added at which times to try to speculate non accurately better
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      08-24-2018, 08:51 PM   #3
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A used motor is not end-of-the-world expensive to transplant. I don't think you would have put 35k on a botched crank hub fix -sounds like something is amiss. I would get a second opinion ASAP.
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      08-24-2018, 09:02 PM   #4
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They killed your car.

Ask them to put it back together and get out of there, always consult on here about a shop local to you that can be trusted. Fuck this shit.
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      08-24-2018, 09:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
A used motor is not end-of-the-world expensive to transplant. I don't think you would have put 35k on a botched crank hub fix -sounds like something is amiss. I would get a second opinion ASAP.
I had thought about that. But then when I think of everything that has been changed on the current one, it makes me irate to think that I would have to replace all that stuff all over again. Some of the items I could swap for sure. But others I had a shop do the work, and some of it was not cheap. Therm and water pump set me back like $600 at the dealer and OFHG I think was $800.

Plus wouldn't a used engine have the stock snails on it, and I would be facing the same predicament I'm in now?

The crank hub fix is EXACTLY my concern. Claiming that someone else at some point in time used JBWeld to "fix" the hub and it didn't hold, and they were going to bore it out "the correct way". To my knowledge, timing chains, cams bearing ledges and crank hub just don't go out that frequently on cars with less than 60k on them.

The shop is actually on this board and I have seen multiple people refer to them. And to be fair, the shop has already gone in their pocket to cover some expenses incurred while it's been sitting in their possession and I have been out without a DD for 6 weeks. They have shown good faith, but I put a car that with parts was probably at least at $10k car, and now I'm getting one back that will be worth like $3k on trade and being told "sorry not much we can do"

Something about the whole thing just stinks though. On at least three occasions I was told "truck is coming to pick it up and ship it back". Each time, it literally came down to "one final test drive before shipping" and then some obscure problem would come up, and they would need it longer. Wash, rinse, repeat for 6 weeks and here I am still without a car, and now zero hope. (One aspect I forgot to mention is that the shop is about 5 hours away, I took it there based on recommendations on this board. I figured they would do a knock up job and have it back immediately.) Boy was I wrong.
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      08-24-2018, 09:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob09msport View Post
I would tell shop you want your old turbos put back on and you haven't said if they are asking for money for the other work they did. Honestly sounds like they may have damaged and tried to fix but why not just throw used engine in. Need better timeline of which parts were added at which times to try to speculate non accurately better
I paid up front for all parts and service to replace the turbos, and then also the oil pan, and clutch and flywheel. Past that point, it was all phone calls and nothing on paper discussing payment.

See my comment above on the used engine, I just don't want to dump money for a second time for all the stuff I already did. Engine's I have seen are like $3500 and then figure another what $1500 on top of that for install? Plus all the ancillaries like waterpump/T-stat, HPFP, H/L fuel sensors, boost lines, injectors, plugs, coils, etc.

The water pump/T-stat were replaced within about 6 months of owning the car so around 70k

OFHG was only about 10k later, so we'll say 80k
Also done was a walnut blast around that time too

JB4 added around 90k
HPFP, H/L fuel sensors probably around 100k
Vacuum lines around 100k
Injectors, plugs, coils, serpentine belt all done week before driving it to the shop
Additionally brand new CP, BOV, FMIC added week before sending it to shop.
Drove the car several times after putting these items on with zero issues. Drove the whole 6 hour trip with multiple stops without so much as a hiccup.
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      08-24-2018, 10:10 PM   #7
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Something is very amiss. I don't think in weld is capable of holding on such an item and I really don't think someone would do that. With under 60k miles any engine issues should've been covered under warranty. I really hate to resort to this but I may consider talking to a lawyer to see what kind of recourse you have although I have a feeling I know the answer.
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      08-25-2018, 09:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyzee125 View Post
Something is very amiss. I don't think in weld is capable of holding on such an item and I really don't think someone would do that. With under 60k miles any engine issues should've been covered under warranty. I really hate to resort to this but I may consider talking to a lawyer to see what kind of recourse you have although I have a feeling I know the answer.
Sadly, I know what you're saying. That's the first thing I thought about also was that. It seems most of the times judges claim "they don't know enough about cars" and default to the shop. That's what I'm afraid will happen here.

But you make a valid point, up until 60k that sort of stuff should have been handled by the dealership especially something of that caliber.

I reread some messages, and the claim is that someone adjust timing at some point and removed the timing chain tensioner, and that's what was cross threaded and fixed with JBWeld. But again, states that it's not a big deal, and it'll be back in no time. Then a day later its "this car is done, can't fix it, previous repairs were too bad, I spun the hub"
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      08-25-2018, 12:20 PM   #9
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Instead of creating a thread about your concerns why don't you just visit the shop and look at the suspected bits and pieces to verify for yourself? Take control of the situation instead of airing your worries on a forum.
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      08-25-2018, 01:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticRob View Post
Instead of creating a thread about your concerns why don't you just visit the shop and look at the suspected bits and pieces to verify for yourself? Take control of the situation instead of airing your worries on a forum.
Perhaps you missed the part where it said it was 6 hours away? Thanks for playing.
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      08-25-2018, 01:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by milfriez View Post
Perhaps you missed the part where it said it was 6 hours away? Thanks for playing.
Holy hell, you're absolutely right, just scrap the car now and lose everything instead of driving a few hours to get the truth. Why didn't I think of that?

Geez man, don't ever procreate or run for public office. Grow a set and get on with life.
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      08-26-2018, 09:38 AM   #12
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I get it he wants to get info before going and throwing accusations. A jb welded tensioner is big diff then crank hub btw very important to accurately describe little details when asking for advice. Now as far as upgrades go when changing blocks transferring upgrades won’t cost extra hell most remove wp just to do hot side inlets. But you won’t have issue switching all parts. The important question is will the car run if put back to way it was on arrival. If not it sounds like they went for test drive and blew motor in which case may or may not have been issue caused by them. Sounds like it was and especially if they said they found these timing chain issues and were fixing. We need to know what the actual expensive issue is that can’t be fixed. I would strike a deal for free labor and you supply block esp if you say this shop has good rep. Shit happens not everything goes as planned good shops do bad things but also cars can sometimes run fine even though hacked and first person to touch gets stuck with Jb weld duct tape and broken parts in their hand trying to figure out how to explain to customer. Only real sour part in my mind is we can’t help you come get car but I don’t know how your interactions with them have been and if you were hostile or not.
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      08-26-2018, 03:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob09msport View Post
I get it he wants to get info before going and throwing accusations. A jb welded tensioner is big diff then crank hub btw very important to accurately describe little details when asking for advice. Now as far as upgrades go when changing blocks transferring upgrades won’t cost extra hell most remove wp just to do hot side inlets. But you won’t have issue switching all parts. The important question is will the car run if put back to way it was on arrival...
"Getting info" consists of the customer putting eyes on things himself and not assuming potentially being fed a line of BS. To compound the first mistake by asking advice post-assumption is even more ridiculous. Why waste the time and effort on tangential questions before having verified anything with eyes on?

Perfect example for me was from a neighborhood forum; someone asked about how to handle an irate neighbor after having confronted him about a constantly noisy dog. Problem was it didn't come out till much later that this person hadn't even approached the owner of the dog yet, instead assuming the owner would be hostile prior to having even been approached.

The best advice is to take things one thing at a time, and to not assume anything. Get the truth and figure things out from there.
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      08-30-2018, 12:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milfriez View Post
Sadly, I know what you're saying. That's the first thing I thought about also was that. It seems most of the times judges claim "they don't know enough about cars" and default to the shop. That's what I'm afraid will happen here.

But you make a valid point, up until 60k that sort of stuff should have been handled by the dealership especially something of that caliber.

I reread some messages, and the claim is that someone adjust timing at some point and removed the timing chain tensioner, and that's what was cross threaded and fixed with JBWeld. But again, states that it's not a big deal, and it'll be back in no time. Then a day later its "this car is done, can't fix it, previous repairs were too bad, I spun the hub"
I'm really, really sorry to hear that. That's unprofessional regardless of how bad the damage is and whether or not they caused it (which is obviously the bigger issue here). A shop's job is NOT to get involved in the opinion of what your car is worth or to try and appraise it/give you advice on selling it. This has always been a pet peeve of mine and thankfully I've never had it happen but I've had friends who had. Regardless, the reason, I'm sure, for this is because they themselves caused the damage. Best of luck
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      08-30-2018, 12:59 PM   #15
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What a nightmare, it sounds like the shop is the culprit here. I suggest you ask them to return it to the condition it was when you brought it there and then lawyer up. Doesn't sound like they'll be able to so you'll need a lawyer for the lawsuit.
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      09-27-2018, 05:44 PM   #16
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Here we are guys, one month later, car is still at the shop. Due to work and family I have been unable to make the six hour plus trip back out. Car is still in limbo, was told three weeks ago I would have a replacement donor engine, just got a single image today of one, and now I am asking for proof of tests leakdown/compression/etc.

He claims he will do all work on his dime, but I am a bit leery only due to past track record. He says two weeks and it will be all wrapped up, i'll let you guys now. Just thought I would follow up
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      09-28-2018, 06:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by milfriez View Post
...was told three weeks ago I would have a replacement donor engine, just got a single image today of one...
Shop probably removed your still-good engine, texted that to you, and is now selling it on CL or ebay for meth money.
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      09-28-2018, 07:26 PM   #18
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You still haven't gotten your car out of there yet?

2 weeks, really.

Go up there asap and get the car and the parts and take it somewhere legitimate.
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      09-29-2018, 01:11 PM   #19
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He said shop was reputable and they are fixing for free sounds like someone messed up and they are owning it. Or they aren't at fault but are responsible and know they should have stopped before was to late, if they had said sorry we can't do this upgrade motors not healthy it wouldnt have been on them . Either way sounds like you will be taken care of just make sure your not getting strung along.
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