[old grey steve]

Some of you may have read Seb's thread elsewhere http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1144047 Seb had an issue re vibration under high speed braking, but nothing really noticable under normal braking. So apart from the obvious as you can see from the enquiry thread people have picked up on different outcomes to such reported incidents such as tension struts or other suspension related items, so you can never be 100% sure.

Some time ago Seb emailed me re the issue as I've stated vibrations could of been anything really, Seb had stated that when he looked at the front of his car and examined the brakes they looked OK. Fair enough but its always worth seeing a picture or two just to see what the liw of the land may be. So I asked Seb to send over a picture or 2 of the discs face on through the wheel just so I could have a look, which he did.

Once recived I saw straightaway some slight discolouration plus corrosion on the outer surface area, which I emailed him back with straightaway.

Pictures were not able to identify a lip on the discs but I suspected that if there was a lip from the pictures I had the lip wouldn't be too large.

But the discolouration led me to think we were talking brakes(but as with all reported vibrations as stated could of been a number of things)but I'd put a wager on with myself that it was brakes, based on what I saw, I'd asked for the pictures to be re sent as I showed them to Alan our tech and he saw what I saw plus he noticed something on the offside front disc, so pictures through we blew them up on my own lap top (Photoshop program) and we could see micro cracks just about visible, now these would rear their head under heavy braking so wager confirmed I ordered discs and pads and felt that calliper wise this would not be needed based on what I'd seen, but had spoken to Seb re his painted callipers and suspected if they'd be painted for looks chances are sliders etc. were covered in paint. So homework done awaited the day

And today was the day bright and early after 8 while eating a rather nice bacon roll Seb turned up.



I had a quick look and sure enough the corrosion on the outer surface was present, but the lip was small but present. The discolouration was noticable when walking up to the car but wasn't that bad TBH but nevertheless the man had an issue and needed to be sorted.

First port of call was to listen to Seb who stated that on the way down he hadn't really noticed the issue, so Alan drove the car came back said the same, so on ot the MOT ramp using he rollers to check what was going on, quickly noticed there was an issue re imbalance concerning the off side front brake set up, but we wnated it to react, so the boss took the car for a little run, back on the MOT rollers the offside readings were more severe meaning high speed braking creates heat, heat produces the vibration and the cracks we'd seen on the pictures back up what we were seeing.

So off they came Alan(Josh's best mate)was doing the spanner work





On the subject of the callipers, both were well painted to be fair(got the camera setting wrong on this picture)as they aren't this colour,



but once stripped the pads were removed we noticed paint in the sliders and coating the inside calliper area as they'd be sprayed so this was all cleaned off though wheels on you'd not notice a thing. Now with the pads off the things that strike you are this






inner pad is wearing a little thinner than the outer pad(which isn't that unusual)plus the lip on the inner pad the lips cutting in to the pad. Disc wise the outer face as seen



the inner face



So again look back at the discs the inner disc face was heavily corroded as circled



which had cut into the inner pad surface as again circled




look again at the inner pad again circled below are stress cracks as again circled



the outer pad which was thicker had started to partially seperate again as circled below



some other general shots of Seb's car




lights and the splitter look really cool Seb, lights especially on yours blend in so well







and finally over to diag bay to resert the brake service light plus fit and code LED rear lights



Test drive done nothing to report back Seb went away a little lighter in the pocket mind set at ease and LED's finally on too. Still waiting to do mine though !!!!

Good seeing you Seb. Let me know how it goes over a week or so

Steve

[DavS1]

LED rear lights really set off the back end! Good work chaps

[Ess]

Steve, thank you for this superbly detailed write-up and photos, this is truly going beyond the call of duty! Great to see you again, and thanks for the coffee too!

Steve asked me to look at my brake disks and to my untrained eye, they looked absolutely fine. I sent him the photos and Steve confirmed he was already seeing some issues, and within two minutes of me arriving at A1, he'd already confirmed these in person. Now I know what to look out for, I could see the corrosion around the disks, but I just thought that it was normal as it had been there for a while.

I was delighted with the professional and friendly service from A1, and as usual could really tell that everyone who works there is passionate about cars. Also I was impressed by the attention to detail with respect to protecting my car: the guys used seat covers when they drove my car, and while the work was being carried out, they had covers in place on the car bodywork too, as you can see from the photos.

My LED rear lights are finally in, after weeks of waiting! I was delighted we had enough time to fit and code them! I'll post some more photos to my build thread when I get some time and the car is clean.

I'll let you know how it's all going once the brakes have bedded in a little Steve.

Big thanks again to Steve and the guys at A1 for a top class service

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Ess

Steve, thank you for this superbly detailed write-up and photos, this is truly going beyond the call of duty! Great to see you again, and thanks for the coffee too!

Steve asked me to look at my brake disks and to my untrained eye, they looked absolutely fine. I sent him the photos and Steve confirmed he was already seeing some issues, and within two minutes of me arriving at A1, he'd already confirmed these in person. Now I know what to look out for, I could see the corrosion around the disks, but I just thought that it was normal as it had been there for a while.

I was delighted with the professional and friendly service from A1, and as usual could really tell that everyone who works there is passionate about cars. Also I was impressed by the attention to detail with respect to protecting my car: the guys used seat covers when they drove my car, and while the work was being carried out, they had covers in place on the car bodywork too, as you can see from the photos.

My LED rear lights are finally in, after weeks of waiting! I was delighted we had enough time to fit and code them! I'll post some more photos to my build thread when I get some time and the car is clean.

I'll let you know how it's all going once the brakes have bedded in a little Steve.

Big thanks again to Steve and the guys at A1 for a top class service

No worries Seb, there's lots of myths re bedding in brakes but the thing for the average motorist seems to be allow a good 150-200 worth of miles brake as you would do normally and all being well when you need to lean on the they'll perform as you'd expect. We've had people lean on them after reading X,Y,Z in various places then come back with issues, sure we replace them under warranty, but when we adopt the practice as stated re taking it a little easy over the mileage I've stated we don't get any issues really at all.

Considering the amount of brakes we change Seb you'll of also seen the blue 325i saloon in with us with lipped scored discs we want to fit once advise and not have the customer returning with issues plus we opt to not use where possible a lot of the aftermarket type stuff like Pagid where we have seen issues despite whet we advise. So decent stuff seems again to give less grief hence its always recommended for these very reasons.

I only really got to see the rear lights in detail in the picture but they do liven the rear end up nicely. Just need to get mine done now

[RajB]

Nice write up Steve.

Glad it's all sorted Seb and lights look cool.

[mjn77]

Be interesting to see, if the issues comes back after a few miles.

[Ess]

Originally Posted by mjn77

Be interesting to see, if the issues comes back after a few miles.

As the brakes are still bedding in I haven't tried to replicate the issue yet. Hopefully given the state of the disks and pads, that was it. I have faith in A1's expertise so I'm not worried, but as you say we will soon find out for sure

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Ess

As the brakes are still bedding in I haven't tried to replicate the issue yet. Hopefully given the state of the disks and pads, that was it. I have faith in A1's expertise so I'm not worried, but as you say we will soon find out for sure

All the indications point straight to the brakes in this case but you should be able to lean on them very soon Seb, so all will be revealed when we saw the car pre work there was a variance after we'd applied some pressurewe saw a far greater variance in the results meaning heat build up on one disc was effecting one side more than the other.

But I'd say in your own time give em a squeeze and see what result you get.

[Ess]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

All the indications point straight to the brakes in this case but you should be able to lean on them very soon Seb, so all will be revealed when we saw the car pre work there was a variance after we'd applied some pressurewe saw a far greater variance in the results meaning heat build up on one disc was effecting one side more than the other.

But I'd say in your own time give em a squeeze and see what result you get.

Will do Steve, I'll follow your advice and finish off my 200 mile stint of nice and gentle

[gaza01]

I love reading these thread Steve! A1 are just superb!!

Seb glad its all sorted!!

[Hulla the Hulla]

"So decent stuff seems again to give less grief hence its always recommended for these very reasons."

So Steve, your recommendation for disks and pads is what exactly, OEM ? If not, what do you class as "decent stuff" ?

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by gaza01

I love reading these thread Steve! A1 are just superb!!

Seb glad its all sorted!!

i guess I'll have to keep writing em then Shaun... But no seriously I do like to take a photo or two and explain what I see. It's every day stuff to me but if it helps someone somewhere then great hence why I do it oddly enough.

We try to get things right first time usually we get all kinds of stuff that places like ShitFit and a like have had a go at, I've got a cracker I just need to upload then I'll ask you all to have a guess what the problem is

But re Seb just awaiting his feedback providing he's fine the miles I'm sure he'll be able to lean on them a bit now and hopefully all will be revealed

Originally Posted by Hulla the Hulla

"So decent stuff seems again to give less grief hence its always recommended for these very reasons."

So Steve, your recommendation for disks and pads is what exactly, OEM ? If not, what do you class as "decent stuff" ?

Decent stuff and what is decent stuff is a damn good question

Start with OEM, several things have happened with E9x series brake parts, the biggest is the cost, one anything other than 330 & above prices are very very close to what you'll get stuff like Pagid, Durid from Euro's/GSF. On the face of it you buy OEM you have an issue under BMW's parts warranty they are duty bound if the materials are suspected to have the car back for inspection, if the materials are found to be at fault then they are replaced under BMW's warranty procedure on the dealership premmises (usually issues come to light early on in the brakes life)which is naturally where most 'complaints' re brakes seem to take place. But the beauty as we've discovered with OEM is once fitted they simply don't cause us any dramas I've been opting to use OEM on BM's 24/7 now and in the 2 plus years I've chosen the route I've opted to take and bate in mind the amount of brakes we do I can honestly say that I've had one maybe 2 issues. And at least one of them was town to an M3 and a customer not listening to the bedding in advise we gave.

Now on the aftermarket side of things despite the same care/attention re cleaning reassembly we do we've seen more than enough come backs to opt for the OEM route, it's the raw cost of repeating the job taking the customers car off the road to replace brakes again that annoys us.

Euro's or shall I say Euro's parent company owns Pagid, Pagid for instance as it was sold out and to a very large extent so's the quality glazing, disc runout, cracks in pad surfaces have all been seen, we've had issues too re TexTar another brand from Euro's but made in the same factory so I understand. We on the subject of these brands have long since carried out the adoption of OEM only brakes for Merceddes as well for the same reason. And again, when fitted we get zero grief re Mercedes customers as well.

We've had if you look at non OEM stuff good results re ATE stuff hardly surprising as they are closely affiliated with BMW OE thing is trying to find the brand in the first place. Mintex as we know is a well,respected brand but occasionally we've seen glazing issues, we've had Brembo stuff as well which seems to be OK, as you'd expect but we've had the odd scare here as well, but nothing like the issues we've seen re Pagid and alike.

Stuff like EBC opens another door for some, I'm about to get discs, pads for the front so I'm half tempted to give these a whirl, if they were quiet have a good pedal then I'd be delighted the groves should glean and deposit less dust on the wheels too so that will be the possible next move for me. If they work sure I'll report back, if they don't work then again I'll report back re issues if any.

But overall, fir most people most of the time I'd say less grief = OEM.

[mob17]

Steve always great to get some insight into your garage.

If you want quiet brakes i wouldn't go with EBC Ultimax. I have them and love them. But braking from high speeds (70mph+) you can hear a little noise, which is probably the same for most grooved discs i'd say?

With the pads, again i love the yellowstuff pads, but if you're after minimal dust then they won't be the pad for you. They are probably similar or 10% more dust than OEM. If you want minimal dust i'd say redstuff, or akenbono which a few people have tried. I think akenbono have crazy low dust properties.

With EBC if you want max performance there's a very small comprimise on noise and dust. But for me it's worth it.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by mob17

Steve always great to get some insight into your garage.

If you want quiet brakes i wouldn't go with EBC Ultimax. I have them and love them. But braking from high speeds (70mph+) you can hear a little noise, which is probably the same for most grooved discs i'd say?

With the pads, again i love the yellowstuff pads, but if you're after minimal dust then they won't be the pad for you. They are probably similar or 10% more dust than OEM. If you want minimal dust i'd say redstuff, or akenbono which a few people have tried. I think akenbono have crazy low dust properties.

With EBC if you want max performance there's a very small comprimise on noise and dust. But for me it's worth it.

Thats the rub Mo the noise, having been a Tarox user many moons ago I know the noise you can get under braking(I'm talking Escort RS Turbo/Sierra Cosworth era here)but was/am aware of certain noise aspects come with or potentually come with this sort of brake application, as its my own car/my own choice I'm still TBH sitting right on they fence, looking at the alternatives, we are an EBC dealer yet we don't really do many sales partly because of the risk they can with the noise cause an issue and put simply I don't want issues, if someone's going to be leaning on their brakes then we can go down the route of something like EBC and they'll accept the noise for the opportunity of being able to brake say 3 metres later than they'd otherwise do on a standard brake set up mind you'd I'd question there need to do this more than anything Mo.

But if your hauling the power around thet you are then it needs to be looked at closer as having power and putting it down is great, but when the need arises you need to ensure you stop as well as go

[djgandy]

Pretty interesting Steve. Never thought to follow the business hierarchy....

http://www.tmdfriction.com/aftermarket

Pagid, Textar and Mintex are probably all the same product.

So that leaves the ones you listed, and perhaps Bosch.

[gaza01]

don't know how the price compared but my nitrac discs are superb!

[Hulla the Hulla]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

Decent stuff and what is decent stuff is a damn good question

Start with OEM, several things have happened with E9x series brake parts, the biggest is the cost, one anything other than 330 & above prices are very very close to what you'll get stuff like Pagid, Durid from Euro's/GSF. On the face of it you buy OEM you have an issue under BMW's parts warranty they are duty bound if the materials are suspected to have the car back for inspection, if the materials are found to be at fault then they are replaced under BMW's warranty procedure on the dealership premmises (usually issues come to light early on in the brakes life)which is naturally where most 'complaints' re brakes seem to take place. But the beauty as we've discovered with OEM is once fitted they simply don't cause us any dramas I've been opting to use OEM on BM's 24/7 now and in the 2 plus years I've chosen the route I've opted to take and bate in mind the amount of brakes we do I can honestly say that I've had one maybe 2 issues. And at least one of them was town to an M3 and a customer not listening to the bedding in advise we gave.

Now on the aftermarket side of things despite the same care/attention re cleaning reassembly we do we've seen more than enough come backs to opt for the OEM route, it's the raw cost of repeating the job taking the customers car off the road to replace brakes again that annoys us.

Euro's or shall I say Euro's parent company owns Pagid, Pagid for instance as it was sold out and to a very large extent so's the quality glazing, disc runout, cracks in pad surfaces have all been seen, we've had issues too re TexTar another brand from Euro's but made in the same factory so I understand. We on the subject of these brands have long since carried out the adoption of OEM only brakes for Merceddes as well for the same reason. And again, when fitted we get zero grief re Mercedes customers as well.

We've had if you look at non OEM stuff good results re ATE stuff hardly surprising as they are closely affiliated with BMW OE thing is trying to find the brand in the first place. Mintex as we know is a well,respected brand but occasionally we've seen glazing issues, we've had Brembo stuff as well which seems to be OK, as you'd expect but we've had the odd scare here as well, but nothing like the issues we've seen re Pagid and alike.

Stuff like EBC opens another door for some, I'm about to get discs, pads for the front so I'm half tempted to give these a whirl, if they were quiet have a good pedal then I'd be delighted the groves should glean and deposit less dust on the wheels too so that will be the possible next move for me. If they work sure I'll report back, if they don't work then again I'll report back re issues if any.

But overall, fir most people most of the time I'd say less grief = OEM.

OEM for me then as I hate grief.... which is annoying as they are chuffing expensive for my 335d compared to aftermarket... cheers Steve

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by djgandy

Pretty interesting Steve. Never thought to follow the business hierarchy....

http://www.tmdfriction.com/aftermarket

Pagid, Textar and Mintex are probably all the same product.

So that leaves the ones you listed, and perhaps Bosch.

Intereting read that thanks for posting re the brakes I was fully aware of the tie up re the various company's the issue is re the variation and quality. Hella used to own Pagid then it was sold off Pagid of yesteryear seemed to be a quality product but from where we are today we are wary and as I've stated I want to measure twice cut once I simply don't want to have customers returning re say a brake issue that when we see the result can be attributed down to not the fitting but the actual product itself and I for one having had to carry out 'under warranty repairs' in the past have seen a dramatic reduction re having to carry out warranty repairs by simply sticking to OEM it's not glamorous but once fitted in the whole re have no dramas

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by gaza01

don't know how the price compared but my nitrac discs are superb!

Heard of the brand on here Shaun but that's it therefore most people wouldn't associate the name/product but I'm looking during August by the looks of it for new discs and pads for the front so will either OEM it or have a closer look at my options re aftermarket but will be selective

[mclouston]

I find it confusing that the steering wheel vibrated for this issue, and not the brake predal!? I am having the same issue!