[Eagle1oh7]

I died a little when I read this thread! Holy shit!

[Braumin]

Originally Posted by GoRomeo

Guys remember owning a BMW requires doing ur homework and read read and more posts here to get the most knowledge regarding our cars repairs etc. So even when u have someone else do the work for u you will not let the crooks steal ur money. Kind of like you want to tell them what to do and know the truth about cost labor etc.

OP by you knowing more about it u could have said about the thermostat.

I appreciate this, but I do know plenty about the car. The costs were obscured on the invoice so you couldn't really see what was what, which is another problem. Anyway I was an automotive tech for several years. This behaviour doesn't surprise me, and I'll go discuss it with the service manager. You should not have to just say "avoid the dealer" since they should be competitive. Clearly they were not.

[GoRomeo]

Originally Posted by Braumin

I appreciate this, but I do know plenty about the car. The costs were obscured on the invoice so you couldn't really see what was what, which is another problem. Anyway I was an automotive tech for several years. This behaviour doesn't surprise me, and I'll go discuss it with the service manager. You should not have to just say "avoid the dealer" since they should be competitive. Clearly they were not.

Your welcome.

Dealers make most of their money on non warranty repairs. Labor cost is crazy high as we all should know this. Lesson learned for you. Cheers!!

[Teufel_Hunden]

Just had mine done in October and it was $980 for parts and labor at the local Indy. Labor really isn't that bad, it's the damn electric WP that's so expensive.

[only1harry]

And the diagnostics fee is BS. They are not supposed to charge you anything for diagnostics if they do the repair job. And what? It takes them 1hr or more of labor to figure out the water pump needs to be replaced? Fricking Stealers.

[arciga18]

i'd get a refund

[sankohuy]

Originally Posted by only1harry

And the diagnostics fee is BS. They are not supposed to charge you anything for diagnostics if they do the repair job. And what? It takes them 1hr or more of labor to figure out the water pump needs to be replaced? Fricking Stealers.

Exactly.... Why the heck are they charging you the diagnostic fee, if they are doing the repair? Dude! I'm so pissed off for you. They are literally insulting your intelligence! Try to get a refund on that you man.

[E90Graphite07]

Stories like this defines why they're called stealerships... but that cost seems 'on the dot' like typical WP/TS services there.

[Rick335i]

I agree with you guys but sometimes the diag fee does not get waived. The diag is there to make sure that the tech has taken the correct steps and procedures on what has failed. the procedures usually start off by towing the car into the shop without starting as to prevent further damage if any has been done already. Top off coolant level and pressurize system to check for leaks while scanning the car for the fault code(s). By the time it's done checking for faults then if there is a leak it will reveal itself. Then comes checking the fuse and power and ground to water pump. Then comes checking the BSD signal to the water pump. Once it has been determined that the water pump has failed then now it's time to whip up the estimate. All this and some more pretty much covers the diag fee aside from the actual repair. BMW come up with the labor times and therefore passes it along to the dealerships. Some dealers just don't care about the customer and just charge whatever they want, this is BS and I agree. I would still call them and ask for a quote on both parts and labor and if it doesn't add up then there you go.

[gerryE90]

I agree , diagnostic fee is not usually charged when they do the work.
Regarding INDY... I find they are sometimes not as good as dealers. Its HARD to find a good qualified one that can overcome the fact that they dont have access to BMW data. Also when they do something wrong its hard to get any type of resolution because they are small and the owners cant afford to loose too much $$$. With dealers, I have a set of people to complain and escalate .. all the way to BMWNA. The dealer also can afford to fix mistakes, specially if you make enough noise as its not really the managers $$$ on the line.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Charging separate labor for the thermostat is like charging separate labor for removing the wheel to get to the brake caliper. That dealership sucks.

[GoRomeo]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

Charging separate labor for the thermostat is like charging separate labor for removing the wheel to get to the brake caliper. That dealership sucks.

And or charging you for removing the calipers when doing your brakes

[///Mposter]

Here was the cost from my F25 . I missed a wedding because it crapped out after an hour into the drive . Stranded while dressed nicely didn't help the cost for a tow.

[GoRomeo]

Originally Posted by ///Mposter

Here was the cost from my F25 . I missed a wedding because it crapped out after an hour into the drive . Stranded while dressed nicely didn't help the cost for a tow.

Danggg!! Talking about a bad experience. So sorry to hear this. F25? Starting to hear more and more about these with bad water pumps too.

I believe i paid about 350 for my wp and 60 for thermostat. I wont say how much i paid for labor cuz u will hate me. Well it was not done at the stealership either.

[autoart]

Did they give you a price before they started the work?

[sankohuy]

Originally Posted by ///Mposter

Here was the cost from my F25 . I missed a wedding because it crapped out after an hour into the drive . Stranded while dressed nicely didn't help the cost for a tow.

Damn...$715 for labor.... Lolz

[Nitrousbird]

Funny - I was around $420 out the door for my pump and thermostat.

But then again, I'm not afraid to do a pretty straight forward DIY job either such as the water pump. Basic hand tools and ramps are all that is needed.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by HB E90

Great post. I drive a Toyota Tacoma 4x4 and my wife drives an Acura MDX. Both are super reliable and I want a 335?!?! So I can go through what you describe. I guess we would have to keep the two cars we have so we have something to drive when the bimmer breaks? LOL

Like I told my sister (who has a 140,000 mile X3) the reason BMWs are expensive to own is because you need a second car to use when the Bimmer is in the shop...

[Game]

Find the parts yourself. I bought my OEM parts for I believe just under $400 new (pump + thermostat) and then find an indy. Should be $700-$800 total. (USD)

[Teufel_Hunden]

Originally Posted by ///Mposter

Here was the cost from my F25 . I missed a wedding because it crapped out after an hour into the drive . Stranded while dressed nicely didn't help the cost for a tow.

5 1/2 hours for labor? My Indy only charged me 3.

[Wilt]

Not to defend excessive charges for labor, but one factor is that shops often use a 'flat rate book' to estimate repairs. And these do not necessarily factor in duplication of labor when two items are next to each other, instead labor is computed as if only ONE item is replaced. A thermostat might not be 'part of the water pump' in all models/brands, and additional time and labor is required if both need replacement.
Flat labor rates encourage mechanics to work fast and efficiently, as they get paid the same for the job whether it takes the full standard rate or less time (because of their experience). For the consumer, if complications slow the work (e.g. frozen nut) you do not necessarily suffer the extra time of an older engine's added effort.
For the mechanic, some are paid hourly, some are paid flat rate per job (i.e. 'piece work'), and you hear many stories of the injustice of both approaches. A not-busy shop represents zero income for a technician paid by flat rate, a very busy shop means a technician can make more money by being efficient yet good in work performed on more jobs.
I have heard of one shop owner who computes income for the technicians both ways, and very fairly pays them the higher amount! Sounds like happy customers and happy technicians, a place I would like to patronize with my returning business.
Then you have what the shop charges customers, absolutely independent of how they pay their technicians! I'd say that a shop's orientation to 'make profit' vs. 'make a happy returning customer' is key to their thinking about customer charges commensurate with real time (non duplication of labor content).

An educated consumer should talk to their service advisor and INQUIRE, " If you ask "How much time for R&R of the water pump? And how much more time for R&R of the thermostat?"...Shouldn't some of these jobs save me labor hours by doing them at the same time, since installation and replacement labor is redundant for some of these items?!". It does not matter, really and truly, if you know in advance where such efficiencies arise...they should explain to your satisfaction the realities behind your inquiry! No matter how a shop computes their charges to customers or compensates their technicians, a customer deserves an explanation for derivation of estimates.

A consumer has to protect his own A$$, not assume that they are interested in protecting it for you!

[Braumin]

Hi Wilt. I was an auto tech for over five years. Flat rate is the standard, however charging labor on part of the job that is already done by the rest of the job is under-handed. Like someone else said, it's like charging extra to remove the wheel to do the brakes.

Anyway I'm going to go to the dealer today and "discuss" this. I'd have questioned it much earlier in the process but they seemed to deliberately obscure the costs for each part of the job. When I got called, I was told it was $2108 (taxes in) for the waterpump. That was all I was told. When I picked up the car, the bill was all very vague. It wasn't until I dug into it that I was able to figure out the extra labor on the thermostat.

So no, flat rate is not an excuse. Flat rate on retail is already very generous (compared to warranty work where the tech generally has to eat some of the time). I'm entirely happy paying the correct amount for a job well done, but that doesn't mean I want to pay twice for the same job.