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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > UPDATED - Engine Swap - 335D Crankshaft Main Bearings and Bolts Question



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      01-15-2019, 09:44 PM   #67
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Well, still don't have the car back.

After the pan was dropped, the shop found the rod bearings in good shape. Next was to check the timing chain. According to them the chain was stretched. So we proceeded to replace the chain along with associated parts.

This past weekend everything was put back together and upon testing the shop could still hear a noise, not as bad as before. They dropped the oil pan again and find that the main bearing closest to the crank pulley has spun. Why they wouldn't check the main bearings the first time I don't know.

Problem now is that we can't find the end caps. They are not sold by themselves, only as part of the block. It's part # 7801415.

Searching for parts now.

What do you guys think about this? Seems to me they should have checked more carefully before proceeding with the costly timing chain replacement.
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      01-16-2019, 07:02 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
Well, still don't have the car back.

After the pan was dropped, the shop found the rod bearings in good shape. Next was to check the timing chain. According to them the chain was stretched. So we proceed to replace the chain along with associated pets.

This past weekend everything was put back together and upon testing the shop could still hear a noise, not as bad as before. They dropped the oil pan again and find that the main bearing closest to the crank pulley has spun. Why they wouldn't check the main bearings the first time I don't know.

Problem now is that we can't find the end caps. They are not sold by themselves, only as part of the block. It's part # 7801415.

Searching for parts now.

What do you guys think about this? Seems to me they should have checked more carefully before proceeding with the costly timing chain replacement.
Yeah, I fail to understand why the shop only checked the rod bearings when the oil pan was dropped. After finding that all the rod bearings were good should have led the shop to check the main bearings. I'd have a serious talk with them about that.

Regarding the end caps, you are correct in that they are not sold separately. Back when I went through this issue I basically had two options after speaking with Matt Whitbread. Option 1 was to replace the entire engine. Option 2, IIRC, was to laser weld more material onto the end cap so its back to its original smooth thickness. The issue with option 2 is that the end caps aren't cast by traditional methods like pouring molten metal into a template/form. They are supposedly made from fine metal powder and then subject to high heat and pressure until all the particles fuse together (cant recall the technical term for this process). While possible to weld more material onto the end caps, its supposedly not 100% reliable.

Depending on how bad your bearing spun, you might be able to get away with sending the crank and end caps to a machine shop to reprofile the parts and then put in oversized bearings to compensate for the lost material. Do you have any pictures of the bearing and end cap?

Also, how many bearing end caps do you need? I still have my old engine and may have a few good ones.
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      01-16-2019, 07:21 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
Well, still don't have the car back.

After the pan was dropped, the shop found the rod bearings in good shape. Next was to check the timing chain. According to them the chain was stretched. So we proceed to replace the chain along with associated pets.

This past weekend everything was put back together and upon testing the shop could still hear a noise, not as bad as before. They dropped the oil pan again and find that the main bearing closest to the crank pulley has spun. Why they wouldn't check the main bearings the first time I don't know.

Problem now is that we can't find the end caps. They are not sold by themselves, only as part of the block. It's part # 7801415.

Searching for parts now.

What do you guys think about this? Seems to me they should have checked more carefully before proceeding with the costly timing chain replacement.
Yeah, I fail to understand why the shop only checked the rod bearings when the oil pan was dropped. After finding that all the rod bearings were good should have led the shop to check the main bearings. I'd have a serious talk with them about that.

Regarding the end caps, you are correct in that they are not sold separately. Back when I went through this issue I basically had two options after speaking with Matt Whitbread. Option 1 was to replace the entire engine. Option 2, IIRC, was to laser weld more material onto the end cap so its back to its original smooth thickness. The issue with option 2 is that the end caps aren't cast by traditional methods like pouring molten metal into a template/form. They are supposedly made from fine metal powder and then subject to high heat and pressure until all the particles fuse together (cant recall the technical term for this process). While possible to weld more material onto the end caps, its supposedly not 100% reliable.

Depending on how bad your bearing spun, you might be able to get away with sending the crank and end caps to a machine shop to reprofile the parts and then put in oversized bearings to compensate for the lost material. Do you have any pictures of the bearing and end cap?

Also, how many bearing end caps do you need? I still have my old engine and may have a few good ones.
It's looking like just one end the. Only the first main bearing (the one closest to the crank pulley) had spun.

If you have a few good ones left, I'll take em.

I will ask for pics of the caps today from the shop then throw them up.
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      01-16-2019, 07:25 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
It's looking like just one end the. Only the first main bearing (the one closest to the crank pulley) had spun.

If you have a few good ones left, I'll take em.

I will ask for pics of the caps today from the shop then throw them up.
Interestingly thats the same bearing that failed on mine. Bearing two was damaged as well in my case though.

I'll try to snap a few pictures today and send them over to you. Did your shop inspect all the bearings? Just want to make sure you dont need more than just one. If it turns out you need, say 3, and I only have 2 good ones then I'd assume the two would be of no use for you.
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      01-16-2019, 07:50 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
It's looking like just one end the. Only the first main bearing (the one closest to the crank pulley) had spun.

If you have a few good ones left, I'll take em.

I will ask for pics of the caps today from the shop then throw them up.
Interestingly thats the same bearing that failed on mine. Bearing two was damaged as well in my case though.

I'll try to snap a few pictures today and send them over to you. Did your shop inspect all the bearings? Just want to make sure you dont need more than just one. If it turns out you need, say 3, and I only have 2 good ones then I'd assume the two would be of no use for you.
I think they were only able to inspect the first 3 just with the oil pan off, couldn't get to the others without pulling the engine.

Only the first one was bad. I'll take both of yours if they are good. How quickly do you think you can get them sent out?
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      01-16-2019, 08:15 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I think they were only able to inspect the first 3 just with the oil pan off, couldn't get to the others without pulling the engine.

Only the first one was bad. I'll take both of yours if they are good. How quickly do you think you can get them sent out?
The engine is at my mechanics shop right now. I'll be headed there after work today if plans dont change. I'll see exactly how many I have left and take a few pictures so you can decide yourself if they will be useful. If you like what you see, I could have them shipped either tomorrow or Friday. Sounds like you might be in a hurry so we could do USPS priority mail for 2-3 business day delivery unless you want to do something more expensive like next day air.
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      01-16-2019, 08:16 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I think they were only able to inspect the first 3 just with the oil pan off, couldn't get to the others without pulling the engine.

Only the first one was bad. I'll take both of yours if they are good. How quickly do you think you can get them sent out?
Also, double check with your shop if the bearing end caps are interchangeable between the mounting points.
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      01-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I think they were only able to inspect the first 3 just with the oil pan off, couldn't get to the others without pulling the engine.

Only the first one was bad. I'll take both of yours if they are good. How quickly do you think you can get them sent out?
Also, double check with your shop if the bearing end caps are interchangeable between the mounting points.
They are interchangeable according to the shop.

Do you have any pics?

Here's mine
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      01-16-2019, 09:30 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
They are interchangeable according to the shop.

Do you have any pics?

Here's mine
Yeah, that looks like a spun bearing. Looks in much better shape than mine though. I have a few pictures of mine linked earlier in the thread here.

Did the shop inspect the crank for any damage?
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      01-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
They are interchangeable according to the shop.

Do you have any pics?

Here's mine
Yeah, that looks like a spun bearing. Looks in much better shape than mine though. I have a few pictures of mine linked earlier in the thread here.

Did the shop inspect the crank for any damage?
No damage to the crank was found.

I see the picture of 2 caps. Are these the good ones?
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      01-16-2019, 09:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
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No damage to the crank was found.

I see the picture of 2 caps. Are these the good ones?
The first/top one is scored from the bearing. The second one looks a bit better but I wont know until I check. I'll take a look at what I have left at the shop and let you know.
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      01-16-2019, 09:52 AM   #78
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Quote:
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No damage to the crank was found.

I see the picture of 2 caps. Are these the good ones?
The first/top one is scored from the bearing. The second one looks a bit better but I wont know until I check. I'll take a look at what I have left at the shop and let you know.
Ok. Shop is telling me I just need one good one
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      01-16-2019, 01:28 PM   #79
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Wow....if you get away with this repair BRAVO!!! I didn't get that lucky.
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      01-16-2019, 01:33 PM   #80
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And are you sure the Crank caps aren't like the CAM keepers......machined to the block specifically?
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      01-16-2019, 03:58 PM   #81
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And are you sure the Crank caps aren't like the CAM keepers......machined to the block specifically?
I have no idea, just going by what the shop is telling me. Hopefully apexit4 can confirm his caps are good.

Had I known a main bearing had spun after they dropped the oil pan the first time, I may have gone a different route but since they have already replaced both chains, CBU cleaning, replaced the plugs and module I'm too deep to try getting an engine replacement.
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      01-16-2019, 06:10 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I have no idea, just going by what the shop is telling me. Hopefully apexit4 can confirm his caps are good.

Had I know a main bearing had spun after they dropped the oil pan the first time, I may have gone a different route but since they have already replaced both chains, CBU cleaning, replaced the plugs and module I'm too deep to try getting an engine replacement.
If you change your mind, I was recently quoted $4,500 (140k motor)-$5,500 (70k motor) to replace and install used working engine. Includes labor and motor. I'd be glad to pass along info. Best of luck with the rebuild
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      01-16-2019, 06:40 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanb2b View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I have no idea, just going by what the shop is telling me. Hopefully apexit4 can confirm his caps are good.

Had I know a main bearing had spun after they dropped the oil pan the first time, I may have gone a different route but since they have already replaced both chains, CBU cleaning, replaced the plugs and module I'm too deep to try getting an engine replacement.
If you change your mind, I was recently quoted $4,500 (140k motor)-$5,500 (70k motor) to replace and install used working engine. Includes labor and motor. I'd be glad to pass along info. Best of luck with the rebuild
Is that in the Chicago area?
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      01-16-2019, 06:58 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I have no idea, just going by what the shop is telling me. Hopefully apexit4 can confirm his caps are good.

Had I known a main bearing had spun after they dropped the oil pan the first time, I may have gone a different route but since they have already replaced both chains, CBU cleaning, replaced the plugs and module I'm too deep to try getting an engine replacement.
Alright, as promised here are pictures of the #1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7 bearing end caps. As you can see, #1 is quite badly scored. The rest seem fine, though I am no expert at determining if they are good enough to be reused. #6 looked to have the highest amount of wear out of the remaining 5.
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      01-16-2019, 07:00 PM   #85
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And are you sure the Crank caps aren't like the CAM keepers......machined to the block specifically?
Seeing as the caps are numbered, I think they might be. But I think they are numbered because of how they are profiled to the individual crankshaft position as opposed to a different shape. From the outside, they all look the same.
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      01-16-2019, 07:07 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep423 View Post
I have no idea, just going by what the shop is telling me. Hopefully apexit4 can confirm his caps are good.

Had I known a main bearing had spun after they dropped the oil pan the first time, I may have gone a different route but since they have already replaced both chains, CBU cleaning, replaced the plugs and module I'm too deep to try getting an engine replacement.
Alright, as promised here are pictures of the #1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7 bearing end caps. As you can see, #1 is quite badly scored. The rest seem fine, though I am no expert at determining if they are good enough to be reused. #6 looked to have the highest amount of wear out of the remaining 5.
Thanks. I'll send these over to my guy and see what he thinks.
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      01-16-2019, 07:39 PM   #87
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Thanks. I'll send these over to my guy and see what he thinks.
Sounds good. Keep me posted on what you decide to do.
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      01-16-2019, 07:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanb2b View Post
If you change your mind, I was recently quoted $4,500 (140k motor)-$5,500 (70k motor) to replace and install used working engine. Includes labor and motor. I'd be glad to pass along info. Best of luck with the rebuild
I think thats a good price for an engine swap. For reference, I paid $3800 for my engine and did all the work myself. Probably spent another $800 on parts (rear main seal, thermostat, water pump, gaskets, o-rings, etc).
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