[-Keith-]

Hi Guys,

Hope all is well over here.

I'm after a bit of advice from the hive mind. I've finally bought a house with a garage, and my beloved E92 M3 will be promoted to cherished weekend car.

I want to buy another E91 for daily duties. I really enjoyed the practicality of my old 335i Touring - it was big enough for large sleepers / timber and all other manner of DIY stuff, golf clubs fell in the back, and it was perfect for dog -transportation duties. Plus I think they look absolutely great.

So I am wondering what the best choice of engine is to choose from? I'm expecting lots of 325d/330d suggestions (nice power and reliable), BUT all I need it for is reliable, economical motoring - power is unimportant. Being built like tank is priority.

On this note, I'd love to pick your brains to know whether the 318i/320i or 318d/320d options are a worthy alternative? They are cheaper to buy, cheaper road tax, and I don't 'need' power as I have the M3. Budget is £5-6k, and I ideally want LCI (mainly for aesthetics). At this budget I tend to be looking at cars which are leggier - so reliability is important. I have no prior experience with any 4 cylinder BMWs, so I am completely unsure at common issues, reliability, maintenance etc of these models, hence I need your help! A part of me seems to remember certain 4-pot BMW engines have timing chain issues?

A couple people I know have leggy 325i tourings which have proved to be fairly unreliable - so I am ruling these out.

Which of the range is my best bet for my brief?

Many thanks
Keith


PS - Finally are there any model revisions, such as engine differences in the petrol/diesel 4-pots that I should look out for (kind of like the N54/N55 in the 335 life)? What years do these take effect from?

[FlaPatsFan]

Great choice for a daily. I have a 2011 328i E91....and love it for all the reasons you mentioned. I think most will agree the N52 engine platform will be the most reliable, as it’s naturally aspirated. Im sure more will chime in on this topic.

[sam1er]

If you want reliability avoid n47/n57 diesel engines to avoid timing chain issues. Go for the m47/m57 engines and get the swirl flaps removed. I bought my current e91 330d pre fl for just under 5k with 91k miles. The mechanicals were sound but bodywork was a little shabby.

[MattOz]

325d or 330d. Both excellent and available at your price point.

[richk84]

With regards to 320ds - the N47 had revised timing chains from March 2011 onwards.

I had a 320d coupe and ran it up to 70k and had zero issues. 320d will probably give you the most choice and you will probably be able to get a LCI. I don't think you would get a 330d LCI with your budget.

I'd avoid 320i's completely. I've got a 330i (n53) and I've had to do the injectors which can be pricey so probably not the model for you.

The other thing to consider if you go diesel is DPF issues and short journeys.

[-Keith-]

Thank you very much for all the input chaps - brilliant info.

Did the 2011+ 318d's have a timing chain revision as per the 320d's? How much is it (roughly) for a pre-emptive timing chain replacement? Are the engines solid apart from this issue?


Based on your suggestions, looks like the options are...

Late 320d with the updated timing chain, as low mileage as possible

For example: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01801122686281


OR


325d/330d, best I can find on budget, whether pre or post LCI. Has to be M Sport though. Not much about at this price apart from leggy ones.

Looks about the best bet on AT:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...01801032418756

[-Keith-]

I'd acually love an Alpina D3 Touring but they will be pre-LCI and a bit leggy at my price point - I'm guessing these also suffer the timing chain issues?

[richk84]

There was QE by BMW not so long along to replace the timing chains in early 07 to 09 320ds. So in theory you could get a D3 as long as it had the QE done with the newer chains.

If you can a 325d/330d in your budget that's the obvious choice, just may have to compromise on mileage.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by -Keith-

Hi Guys,

Hope all is well over here.

I'm after a bit of advice from the hive mind. I've finally bought a house with a garage, and my beloved E92 M3 will be promoted to cherished weekend car.

I want to buy another E91 for daily duties. I really enjoyed the practicality of my old 335i Touring - it was big enough for large sleepers / timber and all other manner of DIY stuff, golf clubs fell in the back, and it was perfect for dog -transportation duties. Plus I think they look absolutely great.

So I am wondering what the best choice of engine is to choose from? I'm expecting lots of 325d/330d suggestions (nice power and reliable), BUT all I need it for is reliable, economical motoring - power is unimportant. Being built like tank is priority.

On this note, I'd love to pick your brains to know whether the 318i/320i or 318d/320d options are a worthy alternative? They are cheaper to buy, cheaper road tax, and I don't 'need' power as I have the M3. Budget is £5-6k, and I ideally want LCI (mainly for aesthetics). At this budget I tend to be looking at cars which are leggier - so reliability is important. I have no prior experience with any 4 cylinder BMWs, so I am completely unsure at common issues, reliability, maintenance etc of these models, hence I need your help! A part of me seems to remember certain 4-pot BMW engines have timing chain issues?

A couple people I know have leggy 325i tourings which have proved to be fairly unreliable - so I am ruling these out.

Which of the range is my best bet for my brief?

Many thanks
Keith


PS - Finally are there any model revisions, such as engine differences in the petrol/diesel 4-pots that I should look out for (kind of like the N54/N55 in the 335 life)? What years do these take effect from?

Whats your annual milleage?

[abeardo83]

If you want reliability, performance and economy, Keith, look no further than a 325d. My other half had an e90 325d. Did 45mpg, had plenty of grunt and was utterly bulletproof for the 250,000miles that were put on it. Body of the car went before the engine.

[bishbosh]

Originally Posted by sam1er

If you want reliability avoid n47/n57 diesel engines to avoid timing chain issues. Go for the m47/m57 engines and get the swirl flaps removed. I bought my current e91 330d pre fl for just under 5k with 91k miles. The mechanicals were sound but bodywork was a little shabby.

My N47 320d is 857 miles short of the 200,000 mile mark. It just depends how well the engine is looked after

And if he wants an LCI then he won't be getting an m57 engine unless it's a 335d

[-Keith-]

Thanks for all the input chaps - some absolutely golden info so far. It's all helping me build a picture as to what to look for. Grateful so far for the advice.

Originally Posted by richk84

There was QE by BMW not so long along to replace the timing chains in early 07 to 09 320ds. So in theory you could get a D3, as long as it had the QE done with the newer chains.

Ahh so BMW finally bit the bullet and did recalls? I know there were cries for this at the time, but I thought they denied it was an issue. It would have saved my wife's good friends 520d, which ended up costing her £5k of money she didn't have for a (used) engine swap (car was on 150k when it let go and goosed the engine).

I guess I can call BMW with the reg details and confirm if the QE has been done.

So if the QE was the 07-09 engines, are the later engines deemed more reliable?

Originally Posted by E60525d

Whats your annual mileage?

My commute is going up at the new address to around 28 miles of motorway each way (56 miles per working day). Which just about puts me in diesel territory.

Originally Posted by abeardo83

If you want reliability, performance and economy, Keith, look no further than a 325d. My other half had an e90 325d. Did 45mpg, had plenty of grunt and was utterly bulletproof for the 250,000miles that were put on it. Body of the car went before the engine.

Great to know. A true tank!

I would love a 325d, just need to be savvy with finding the right one (solid history, mileage, condition, LCI, spec... In that order or thereabouts).

Do 325d's need the swirl flaps removed? If so, what sort of cost is having the blanks fitted at a specialist?

Originally Posted by bishbosh

My N47 320d is 857 miles short of the 200,000 mile mark. It just depends how well the engine is looked after

That's great to know. Congrats on that mileage! What year is yours? Forgive my ignorance about the N47 engine line.

Do all 320d's have an N47? Just different revisions / outputs along the way?

Am I right in thinking its about £1k at a specialist to replace the timing chain as a preventive measure?

[bishbosh]

There has been a long running PUMA case about the N47 timing chain. My own engine had a noisy chain, and when I found out I took it to BMW and claimed on the insured warranty.

Because my car is a 2008 model the crankshaft was replaced due to excessively sharp crankshaft sprockets, as well as the chains, gaskets, tensioners, etc. I couldn't believe how quiet the engine was after that! Only cars up to 2009 were affected by sharp crankshaft sprockets. This was in 2013.

Fast forward a year or so and there was a QE for the top chain I believe and this could be replaced quite easily within a few hours at a dealer. I also had this done, but I didn't notice any difference in sound.

The N47 is pretty much the same for every 320d, the 318d engines don't have swirl flaps though. The LCI engines have slightly more power (184 vs 177bhp) and a different intake manifold design, but in essence it's the same engine.

[E60525d]

Yeah a diesel would be better suited for that milleage.

An N47 would be a good purchase as long as it has had the QE done. Without out, I wouldnt touch a N47. We have a N47 F25 but it has the updated 184bhp engine. This engine was in the E91 from late 2010 onwards. But i reckon these cars are probably out of range on your budget.

The 2007-2009 N47's are the worst affected. There was a chain re-design in mid 2009 which was improved but still likely to go wrong.

Ideally you'd want a car that has had the QE done within in budget. Even better would be 184bhp version or a N57 325/330 but unlikely within your budget.

[The0pportunist]

Been on this site for a few years now and to me it feels like the 330i has had the least issues! N/a 6 cylinder seems to be BMW's most reliable engines!

I've also been thinking about a run around too and i think i'm getting the Alfa bug. The 157 is such a great looking car and priced really cheap right now, future classic too? - i'm tempted!

Since you have IMO the best BMW in the garage have you thought about a different brands for your 2nd car?

[abeardo83]

Originally Posted by -Keith-

I would love a 325d, just need to be savvy with finding the right one (solid history, mileage, condition, LCI, spec... In that order or thereabouts).

Do 325d's need the swirl flaps removed? If so, what sort of cost is having the blanks fitted at a specialist?

We never had them removed / replaced tbh. I guess they're a bit like the good old rod bearings on the S65. Some go, some don't.

[-Keith-]

Originally Posted by bishbosh

There has been a long running PUMA case about the N47 timing chain. My own engine had a noisy chain, and when I found out I took it to BMW and claimed on the insured warranty.

Because my car is a 2008 model the crankshaft was replaced due to excessively sharp crankshaft sprockets, as well as the chains, gaskets, tensioners, etc. I couldn't believe how quiet the engine was after that! Only cars up to 2009 were affected by sharp crankshaft sprockets. This was in 2013.

Fast forward a year or so and there was a QE for the top chain I believe and this could be replaced quite easily within a few hours at a dealer. I also had this done, but I didn't notice any difference in sound.

The N47 is pretty much the same for every 320d, the 318d engines don't have swirl flaps though. The LCI engines have slightly more power (184 vs 177bhp) and a different intake manifold design, but in essence it's the same engine.

Again, superb information. I guess I'll be checking any car for the rattly sound and also calling BMW about the QE. If going 320d I'll be aiming for a 2010 anyway just to be sure.

Originally Posted by E60525d

Yeah a diesel would be better suited for that milleage.

An N47 would be a good purchase as long as it has had the QE done. Without out, I wouldnt touch a N47. We have a N47 F25 but it has the updated 184bhp engine. This engine was in the E91 from late 2010 onwards. But i reckon these cars are probably out of range on your budget.

The 2007-2009 N47's are the worst affected. There was a chain re-design in mid 2009 which was improved but still likely to go wrong.

Ideally you'd want a car that has had the QE done within in budget. Even better would be 184bhp version or a N57 325/330 but unlikely within your budget.

I've linked to a couple in post #6 which are both at the £6.5k mark which is fine. I'll always find extra for the right car.

325d is the most attractive (although I still haven't ruled out finding a lovely LCI 320d or D3). I've never owned a BMW 4-pot nor any diesel for that matter, and I do relish their silky smooth sixes. Just be a matter of finding the right one with good history etc.

Originally Posted by The0pportunist

Been on this site for a few years now and to me it feels like the 330i has had the least issues! N/a 6 cylinder seems to be BMW's most reliable engines!

Interesting. I've had a 330i in the past (my wife also had an 130i) and whilst I agree they are great engines, they are not all that economical (not with the way I drive anyway)! Having an M3 in the garage I kind of want something to balance that out and be a frugal mile-munching tank.

Originally Posted by The0pportunist

Since you have IMO the best BMW in the garage have you thought about a different brands for your 2nd car?

Thanks, and no not really! I've driven BWMs all my life (first car was an E36 328i) and they are my comfort zone. I've driven and modified them ever since, I know my way around realOEM and where to buy cheap parts for them. Plus U think the Sport E91 is the best looking tourer in its class by far.

Originally Posted by abeardo83

We never had them removed / replaced tbh. I guess they're a bit like the good old rod bearings on the S65. Some go, some don't.

I hear you!

[surrey130i]

For that budget you will not get an Lci unless something is not good about it.

Avoid the 4 cylinders when you could have a much nicer 6 cylinder that is not only nicer to drive, smoother, quicker but also far less likely to give reliability problems with the engine.
Having owned most models of E90 including petrol and diesel of all engine sizes I would suggest petrol 3.0i then diesel 330d. High Mileage does not seem to affect these much with FSH, I've had a couple that were well past 150k miles with no horror stories.
Forget the 4 cylinders, both petrol and diesel have big question marks over timing chains.

[rasa bmw]

swirls job should be around £150 including the blanks,,easy enough to do yourself though,only lifting manifold off and unclipping vacuum hoses etc is the trickiest bit..plenty e90 330d cars out there for 5k and under,,around 100 ki iles for that money,,i paid a little extra for mine a year ago,£5.3 k but the dealer done loads of work to for me,,ie both bumpers sprayed.new front shocks,,thermostats/water pump,,although i bough the thermo stats and pump,,also painted my calipers black for me and a full service...great cars,,i also have an e46 330d and thats still fabulous although a little rusty at 15 years old and 153 k miles,,both cars are mapped and can trot on when asked,,easy off the clock with the e90.

[nomiS330d]

Originally Posted by rasa bmw

swirls job should be around £150 including the blanks,,easy enough to do yourself though,only lifting manifold off and unclipping vacuum hoses etc is the trickiest bit..plenty e90 330d cars out there for 5k and under,,around 100 ki iles for that money,,i paid a little extra for mine a year ago,£5.3 k but the dealer done loads of work to for me,,ie both bumpers sprayed.new front shocks,,thermostats/water pump,,although i bough the thermo stats and pump,,also painted my calipers black for me and a full service...great cars,,i also have an e46 330d and thats still fabulous although a little rusty at 15 years old and 153 k miles,,both cars are mapped and can trot on when asked,,easy off the clock with the e90.

+1

The m57 Diesel engines have been around more than 20 years and proved very reliable as long as preventative maintenance is done. They can do very high milage with no issues!
Mine also being mapped means it's properly fast, not just fast for a diesel and amazing on fuel. My worst average with every sort of driving is 40mpg. 55mpg is easily achievable on a steady run but thats with a manual 'box. my mates unmapped 530d auto doesn't get those figures, at least 10mpg worse!

[Jeff123]

325's are thin on the ground compared to 320's There are quite a few 330's but they tend to be more expensive. Also, for your budget, at that time, there were far more diesel than petrol cars made.

So, I would go for a 320d. The later LCI's (if you can stretch to one) are 184 BHP. Thats quite a swift car and they are also very economical. They are very cheap to insure, service and run.

There were so many of these cars built that the breakers' yards will have spare parts if anything goes wrong.

If it was me, I would go for as low a mileage as possible and not be too concerned about spec. This is a "workhorse" that you are buying at a relatively cheap price, so I would not be too hung up on the extras, such as idrive and leather seats. They are good to have - but everybody else thinks this as well, so they will sell quicker.

The 320d that you indicated in an earlier post looks pretty decent at first glance.

[Silver Streek]

Originally Posted by abeardo83

We never had them removed / replaced tbh. I guess they're a bit like the good old rod bearings on the S65. Some go, some don't.

The pre 2010 325D m57 engines don't have swirl flaps. The LCI from 2010 had them in the N57 engine which is the same engine as the 330d just detuned.

Mines a 325d LCI late 2009 car which still has the M57 so does not have swirl flaps to worry about, I checked on real OEM and with the dealer to make sure.

They are muh nicer to drive than the 4 pot cars, much smoother with a nice power delivery specially low down in the revs, they don't bog down like the 4 pots do.