[undecided]

Originally Posted by Speediance

Sorry, but I'm not sure if I understand your question...

Are you referring to my comment regarding M3 parts making the wheelbase wider? I didnt say it makes things longer (front to back), I said wider (left to right).

I was talking about the wider part. Wouldn't the axle shafts need to be longer if the track widens?

[DOUT]

how much did it come out to all together?

[LaYzEe]

good read!

Looks like alotta people going with the M3 parts and a good set of coils/springs & shocks combo.

[Speediance]

Originally Posted by dahdout

how much did it come out to all together?

The GC kit is $1850 or whatever their website says www.ground-control.com
All M3 parts: expect this number to be around $2200. But Jay can get potentially better pricing on them.

[Speediance]

I've been getting a lot of question regarding the exact parts used in the conversion including the custom parts designed by Ground Control. So here is the list:

Front
1) Sway bars with custom GC bushings kit
2) Strut tower brace kit (I have all parts but this one on my car).
3) Control arms
4) Tension rods

Rear
1) Subframe bushings
2) Custom GC rear toe arm kit
3) Custom GC upper camber arm kit
4) M3 front link
5) Sway bars with custom GC bushings kit
6) Rear lower arm kit ("camber arms")

[uberschnell]

Any reason why you didn't go with HP on this? They seem to have worked out a complete m3 suspension swap some time ago, including custom components.

Also, I've installed the M3 sways and had no problem using the m3 brackets. What issues did you run into?

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by undecided

I was talking about the wider part. Wouldn't the axle shafts need to be longer if the track widens?

The lower suspension arms are a bit longer, and push out the bottom of the tire creating more negative camber.

so before, your tires looked like this (looking from the back of the car)

|----|

with more negative camber, they look like this:

/----\

the actual contact surface of the tires to the road is a bit wider, though the center part of the hub is still in the same place.

[Speediance]

Originally Posted by MteK

Any reason why you didn't go with HP on this? They seem to have worked out a complete m3 suspension swap some time ago, including custom components.

One big reason why I didnt go with HPAuto on this is because I wanted Ground Control. Also from some reading on the forums, it seemed that HPAuto was still working or finishing up R&D one of the links in the back for a true M3 conversion. After talking to Jay for like 1-2 hours, he already had a solution for everything, which included custom components that are even better than the M3 ones (better in the sense, stronger, more finely adjustable than the stock M3 components in some regard; I've talked about this in the initial post as well). So it comes down to three reasons:
1) I wanted ground control suspension
2) Jay is extremely knowledgeable and innovative
3) Some custom pieces could be potentially better than the M3 ones; which they are, according to guy who did the alignment for my car.

Originally Posted by MteK

Also, I've installed the M3 sways and had no problem using the m3 brackets. What issues did you run into?

I dont know all the details on this one, as I didnt do the actual work. But like the pictures prove, there was clearly some issue. I will find out...

[JM3]

My name is Jay from Ground Control, and I have been asked to start answering some of these questions. We are in the process of becoming a sponsor, and will have a banner up soon, but I don't want the questions to build up so much that we get overwhelmed.

So here goes the first answers:

Originally Posted by MteK

Any reason why you didn't go with HP on this? They seem to have worked out a complete m3 suspension swap some time ago, including custom components.

The GC parts from the local BMW dealer are the same as HP or Tischer sells, to the best of our knowledge there are no options from BMW that I know of.

The GC rear links are little bit complicated in terms of "what" and "why".

The GC links are turnbuckle style, which are easier to adjust and easier to lock down. Of course this begs the question of "why?".

If you look carefully, we have made the rear links longer. This reduces the camber and toe curves in the rear suspension geometry. the toe links are locked into the longest position, and then toe is altered from that position.

Originally Posted by MteK

Also, I've installed the M3 sways and had no problem using the m3 brackets. What issues did you run into?

The stock REAR m3 bushings, especially when brand new, have a ton of friction aka spring rate. This makes it difficult to fine-adjust the rear shocks until the bushings are broken in.

The front bushings and brackets are just weak, so we elect to not buy them. In fact if you look at the M3 brackets, they are weaker than the 335 brackets even though the front bar is stiffer.


Jay

PS I can typically answer qusetioons in the morning and afternoon, but I have to work in the shop in the middle of the day

[JM3]

Originally Posted by undecided

I was talking about the wider part. Wouldn't the axle shafts need to be longer if the track widens?

No, it dosent get that much wider. It works out to be about 8-9mm wider. Plus, we are running more static negative rear camber whcih tilts the axle shaft back in a little bit anyway.

Jay from GC

PS 8-9mm at the arm, depending on where you started in the first place.

PPS track width at the contact patch is a little wider than that, as measured for SCCA racing would be about 13mm wider per side.

[uberschnell]

Originally Posted by JM3

The stock REAR m3 bushings, especially when brand new, have a ton of friction aka spring rate. This makes it difficult to fine-adjust the rear shocks until the bushings are broken in.

The front bushings and brackets are just weak, so we elect to not buy them. In fact if you look at the M3 brackets, they are weaker than the 335 brackets even though the front bar is stiffer.

Will these custom swaybar brackets and links be available for purchase seperately?

[Lobaeux]

A question for you. I don't live in Cali, anywhere near Cali or have the ability to drive to Cali.
Can I order the parts from you and have a local shop here in Little Rock perform the work?
One of my hesitancies about getting new suspension pieces has been the shop work involved. Seems like everyone that gets work done is near a shop like yours.

[kenneth]

Rough idea of the time (hrs) it takes to swap the subframe bushings?

Apart from the exhaust, what else need to be removed?

Many Thanks!

[TSM330i]

Fantastic write-up! I feel the same way about my c/o's. It's amazing the difference a good set-up makes.

Go out and get yourself an LSD. It'll make the driving experience that much better. Being able to adjust the car mid-corner is phenominal!
You won't regret it.

[Speediance]

Originally Posted by Lobaeux

A question for you. I don't live in Cali, anywhere near Cali or have the ability to drive to Cali.
Can I order the parts from you and have a local shop here in Little Rock perform the work?
One of my hesitancies about getting new suspension pieces has been the shop work involved. Seems like everyone that gets work done is near a shop like yours.

BMWs are very finely tuned by the original engineers and hence very finicky when it comes to getting work done. This is my personal experience and I'm sure most will agree. What that means is that wherever you get work done on your car, they better be damm good; or dont do it. Or its simply not worth it!

Jay is planning to put together 2 kits for E90Post community:
1) The C/O kit
2) The M3 conversion kit along with all his custom made parts

As Jay mentioned, they are in the process of becoming a vendor on this forum. Once they are you can ask them directions/advice directly. I cannot give much advice, since I didnt do any work on it myself.

[Speediance]

Originally Posted by kenneth

Rough idea of the time (hrs) it takes to swap the subframe bushings?

Apart from the exhaust, what else need to be removed?

Many Thanks!

I dont know exactly, so I will let Jay answer this one...

But roughly I think its around 3-5 hours.

[JM3]

Originally Posted by kenneth

Rough idea of the time (hrs) it takes to swap the subframe bushings?

I think it will be tough to do in less than 4 hours. It is a really horrible task to be honest. The two rear are the most important by far, and the easiest.

Originally Posted by kenneth

Apart from the exhaust, what else need to be removed?

All of the brackets, bolts, and the worst part is the brake lines really should be removed so they are not damaged and then then brakes bled.

Originally Posted by kenneth

Many Thanks!

You're welcome, sorry about the bad news.

Jay

[Park828]

Jay - where in Norcal are you located in?

Speediance - Same question for you. Can i come to you for a short ride?

Im located in Southbay - Sunnyvale CA. I Drive bmws for their handling abilities. I've done a few things already but i Just found out one of my V2 shocks are leaking. so looking for a replacement.

I already have the M3 front Strut bar, M3 front control and lower arms, m3 rear sub frame bushings. along with the volshlag camber plates and V2 CO and HR front and rear sways. I think the sways a bit too stiff and looking at options on replacing partly or whole new setup. I was thinking of going with HP's setup but I think i want a local Suspension pros to take a look and assess what i need.

I had no idea GC was local...

TIA for any inputs..

Park.

[zsapphire7]

Hey im in cupertino too, let me know if you guys meet up to compare suspensions! Ive been waiting for a chance to ride in another members car running on v3s and HPauto's swift springs setup. Id like to see the differences between these two options as well. Maybe we can organize something all together?

Originally Posted by Park828

Jay - where in Norcal are you located in?

Speediance - Same question for you. Can i come to you for a short ride?

Im located in Southbay - Sunnyvale CA. I Drive bmws for their handling abilities. I've done a few things already but i Just found out one of my V2 shocks are leaking. so looking for a replacement.

I already have the M3 front Strut bar, M3 front control and lower arms, m3 rear sub frame bushings. along with the volshlag camber plates and V2 CO and HR front and rear sways. I think the sways a bit too stiff and looking at options on replacing partly or whole new setup. I was thinking of going with HP's setup but I think i want a local Suspension pros to take a look and assess what i need.

I had no idea GC was local...

TIA for any inputs..

Park.

[Park828]

btw the rear sub frame bushings were pita to install. took my shop ( BRracing ) awesome shop btw 6 hrs to install!

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by JM3

I think it will be tough to do in less than 4 hours. It is a really horrible task to be honest. The two rear are the most important by far, and the easiest.



All of the brackets, bolts, and the worst part is the brake lines really should be removed so they are not damaged and then then brakes bled.



You're welcome, sorry about the bad news.

Jay

Thanks for the heads up, I'm screwed

[Soni]

Originally Posted by JM3

My name is Jay from Ground Control, and I have been asked to start answering some of these questions. We are in the process of becoming a sponsor, and will have a banner up soon, but I don't want the questions to build up so much that we get overwhelmed.

So here goes the first answers:



The GC parts from the local BMW dealer are the same as HP or Tischer sells, to the best of our knowledge there are no options from BMW that I know of.

The GC rear links are little bit complicated in terms of "what" and "why".

The GC links are turnbuckle style, which are easier to adjust and easier to lock down. Of course this begs the question of "why?".

If you look carefully, we have made the rear links longer. This reduces the camber and toe curves in the rear suspension geometry. the toe links are locked into the longest position, and then toe is altered from that position.



The stock REAR m3 bushings, especially when brand new, have a ton of friction aka spring rate. This makes it difficult to fine-adjust the rear shocks until the bushings are broken in.

The front bushings and brackets are just weak, so we elect to not buy them. In fact if you look at the M3 brackets, they are weaker than the 335 brackets even though the front bar is stiffer.


Jay

PS I can typically answer qusetioons in the morning and afternoon, but I have to work in the shop in the middle of the day

Welcome Jay!

Soni (aka Pei with the orange 240Z)