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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > E90 is running lean



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      01-23-2019, 08:57 PM   #1
Alexismeza
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E90 is running lean

2007 Bmw 328xi (120k miles) with a 2009 328xi engine in it (80k)
NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS
Rough idle 600-700 rpms.
Rough and slow acceleration .
Car stumbles higher speeds when accelerating.
Runs lean.
Runs high rpms before shifting gears.
Burns oil.
Car shakes at idle
White smoke from exhaust.
Makes whistling noise when driving occasionally when engine is warm.

Since having the engine swapped I've replaced the following.
Oil pan bolts and gasket.
Pan gasket & Bolts.
Valve cover gasket.
Exhaust gaskets & bolts.
VVT Solenoids & VVT motor were swapped from the old engine (NOT NEW).
New alternator.
02 sensor.
Had the PCV valve replaced under BMW recall. Started running better once this was replaced but not much difference.

Haven't had the car scanned recently so I don't have the codes, but last time it was scanned the 02 sensor was replaced with no luck due to it not being able to adjust the fuel trim for cylinders 1 2 & 3. Was running a bit better after this was done.
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      01-24-2019, 07:10 AM   #2
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This will be very difficult to solve unless you own or can use a bmw specific code reader. You can get a cable and software for <$100 for a windows laptop. I would not go further without a code reader.
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      01-24-2019, 11:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
2007 Bmw 328xi (120k miles) with a 2009 328xi engine in it (80k); NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS; Rough idle 600-700 rpms; Rough and slow acceleration; Car stumbles higher speeds when accelerating; Runs lean [based upon what codes/tests?]; Runs high rpms before shifting gears; Burns oil [RATE -- quart per xxx miles?]; Car shakes at idle; White smoke from exhaust; Makes whistling noise when driving occasionally when engine is warm...
Had the PCV valve replaced under BMW recall. Started running better once this was replaced but not much difference. [The recall replaced the "Breather Heater" located under the intake manifold, and NOT the PCV valve which is an integral part of your plastic Valve Cover. The "whistling noise" suggests the PCV valve is failing -- see below].
Haven't had the car scanned recently so I don't have the codes, but last time it was scanned [what codes then?] the 02 sensor [which one? there are 4] was replaced with no luck due to it not being able to adjust the fuel trim for cylinders 1 2 & 3 [so was the "pre-cat" O2 sensor on Bank 1 (cyl.1-3) replaced?] Was running a bit better after this was done.
Welcome to the Forum!

Unclear from your description how long ago the engine was replaced, and WHICH of the complaints/symptoms listed above are items that have been faulty since engine replacement, or at least as long as you have owned it. Please clarify.

Before getting too deep in detailed analysis of the issue(s), we need to know if YOU are willing and able to do any of the diagnosis & testing, or if you are going to rely on a shop for that.

A) If you had a simple $30-$35 scan tool and were willing to spend an hour or two learning how to use it, we could probably suggest simple tests you could take to get an identification and diagnosis of the Faults. DIY diagnosis (with help from knowledgeable forum members) is cheap. Throwing parts/ engines at the issue(s) is $EXPENSIVE.

B) If you are going to own an "out-of-warranty" vehicle, you will either spend $Thousands paying others to maintain/ repair it, or you need to be able to diagnose the problem with the help of forum members and proper references, and do many repairs/replacements yourself, as LABOR is the $Expensive line item. If YOU did the replacement of the items you list after "I've replaced the following", then YOU ARE able to do your own diagnosis and repairs if you have a basic P-code reader, best entry-level tool for reading DME (Engine Control Module) Fault Codes. It won't read Fault Codes or Parameters in other modules, but all the complaints you cite are DME Faults, so I would suggest learn to walk -- THEN learn to run. That is NOT meant to be condescending, but simply a suggestion NOT to be intimidated by "Experts."

C) So if you don't have a scan tool, but would like to add some new dimensions to your DIY capability, just let us know: (1) Do you have a Windows 10 laptop? (2) Do you have an iPhone or Android device? (3) Do you have any other vehicles you would like to be able to troubleshoot for codes?

In summary, I would suggest that you develop a "Plan" for how to diagnose and maintain your vehicles, and if you have never used a scan tool, to specifically develop a Plan for what to start with, and how to improve your diagnostic capabilities later with INPA or ISTA (powerful BMW shop software which is free download, but takes hours to learn how to use due to the wide range of things it is able to do).

As for your issues, a good tech should ALWAYS get all data saved in the DME (more than Fault Codes ;-) and do further testing before rendering a diagnosis, but simply based upon your description above, it sounds like your PCV valve which is an integral part of the plastic Valve Cover, has failed. If you have difficulty opening the oil filler cap when the engine is running, and hear a whistling from the cap area when engine is running, AND have oil consumption issues and white/gray smoke coming from the exhaust, AND have rough idle with enrichment issues, those symptoms are consistent with a bad PCV valve.

Fault Codes, whether P-codes or corresponding BMW Fault Codes, may be of minimal help diagnosing the problems you are describing, but there are other tests which you can do that may help identify the issues, and we should know what codes are present to make sure we aren't headed in the wrong direction.

Please answer questions above if you wish further help,
George
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      01-24-2019, 01:02 PM   #4
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I'd guess blown crankcase vent valve. You have to replace the valve cover to fix it (if it is that).

Symptoms:
Burning oil/lots of oil in intake
Screaming noise
Lean running (effectively a vacuum leak)
Oil filler hard to open
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      01-24-2019, 01:16 PM   #5
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I've got a used N52N valve cover for sale if you end up needing it.
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      01-24-2019, 08:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
2007 Bmw 328xi (120k miles) with a 2009 328xi engine in it (80k); NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS; Rough idle 600-700 rpms; Rough and slow acceleration; Car stumbles higher speeds when accelerating; Runs lean [COLOR="Red"][based upon what codes/tests?][/COLOR]; Runs high rpms before shifting gears; Burns oil [COLOR="red"][RATE -- quart per xxx miles?][/COLOR]; Car shakes at idle; White smoke from exhaust; Makes whistling noise when driving occasionally when engine is warm...
Had the PCV valve replaced under BMW recall. Started running better once this was replaced but not much difference. [COLOR="red"][The recall replaced the "Breather Heater" located under the intake manifold, and NOT the PCV valve which is an integral part of your plastic Valve Cover. The "whistling noise" suggests the PCV valve is failing -- see below][/COLOR].
Haven't had the car scanned recently so I don't have the codes, but last time it was scanned [COLOR="red"][what codes then?][/COLOR] the 02 sensor [COLOR="red"][which one? there are 4][/COLOR] was replaced with no luck due to it not being able to adjust the fuel trim for cylinders 1 2 & 3 [COLOR="red"][so was the "pre-cat" O2 sensor on Bank 1 (cyl.1-3) replaced?][/COLOR] Was running a bit better after this was done.
Welcome to the Forum!

Unclear from your description how long ago the engine was replaced, and WHICH of the complaints/symptoms listed above are items that have been faulty since engine replacement, or at least as long as you have owned it. Please clarify.

Before getting too deep in detailed analysis of the issue(s), we need to know if YOU are willing and able to do any of the diagnosis & testing, or if you are going to rely on a shop for that.

A) If you had a simple $30-$35 scan tool and were willing to spend an hour or two learning how to use it, we could probably suggest simple tests you could take to get an identification and diagnosis of the Faults. DIY diagnosis (with help from knowledgeable forum members) is cheap. Throwing parts/ engines at the issue(s) is $EXPENSIVE.

B) If you are going to own an "out-of-warranty" vehicle, you will either spend $Thousands paying others to maintain/ repair it, or you need to be able to diagnose the problem with the help of forum members and proper references, and do many repairs/replacements yourself, as LABOR is the $Expensive line item. If YOU did the replacement of the items you list after "I've replaced the following", then YOU ARE able to do your own diagnosis and repairs if you have a basic P-code reader, best entry-level tool for reading DME (Engine Control Module) Fault Codes. It won't read Fault Codes or Parameters in other modules, but all the complaints you cite are DME Faults, so I would suggest learn to walk -- THEN learn to run. That is NOT meant to be condescending, but simply a suggestion NOT to be intimidated by "Experts."

C) So if you don't have a scan tool, but would like to add some new dimensions to your DIY capability, just let us know: (1) Do you have a Windows 10 laptop? (2) Do you have an iPhone or Android device? (3) Do you have any other vehicles you would like to be able to troubleshoot for codes?

In summary, I would suggest that you develop a "Plan" for how to diagnose and maintain your vehicles, and if you have never used a scan tool, to specifically develop a Plan for what to start with, and how to improve your diagnostic capabilities later with INPA or ISTA (powerful BMW shop software which is free download, but takes hours to learn how to use due to the wide range of things it is able to do).

As for your issues, a good tech should ALWAYS get all data saved in the DME (more than Fault Codes ;-) and do further testing before rendering a diagnosis, but simply based upon your description above, it sounds like your PCV valve which is an integral part of the plastic Valve Cover, has failed. If you have difficulty opening the oil filler cap when the engine is running, and hear a whistling from the cap area when engine is running, AND have oil consumption issues and white/gray smoke coming from the exhaust, AND have rough idle with enrichment issues, those symptoms are consistent with a bad PCV valve.

Fault Codes, whether P-codes or corresponding BMW Fault Codes, may be of minimal help diagnosing the problems you are describing, but there are other tests which you can do that may help identify the issues, and we should know what codes are present to make sure we aren't headed in the wrong direction.

Please answer questions above if you wish further help,
George
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
2007 Bmw 328xi (120k miles) with a 2009 328xi engine in it (80k); NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHTS; Rough idle 600-700 rpms; Rough and slow acceleration; Car stumbles higher speeds when accelerating; Runs lean [COLOR="Red"][based upon what codes/tests?][/COLOR]; Runs high rpms before shifting gears; Burns oil [COLOR="red"][RATE -- quart per xxx miles?][/COLOR]; Car shakes at idle; White smoke from exhaust; Makes whistling noise when driving occasionally when engine is warm...
Had the PCV valve replaced under BMW recall. Started running better once this was replaced but not much difference. [COLOR="red"][The recall replaced the "Breather Heater" located under the intake manifold, and NOT the PCV valve which is an integral part of your plastic Valve Cover. The "whistling noise" suggests the PCV valve is failing -- see below][/COLOR].
Haven't had the car scanned recently so I don't have the codes, but last time it was scanned [COLOR="red"][what codes then?][/COLOR] the 02 sensor [COLOR="red"][which one? there are 4][/COLOR] was replaced with no luck due to it not being able to adjust the fuel trim for cylinders 1 2 & 3 [COLOR="red"][so was the "pre-cat" O2 sensor on Bank 1 (cyl.1-3) replaced?][/COLOR] Was running a bit better after this was done.
Welcome to the Forum!

Unclear from your description how long ago the engine was replaced, and WHICH of the complaints/symptoms listed above are items that have been faulty since engine replacement, or at least as long as you have owned it. Please clarify.

Before getting too deep in detailed analysis of the issue(s), we need to know if YOU are willing and able to do any of the diagnosis & testing, or if you are going to rely on a shop for that.

A) If you had a simple $30-$35 scan tool and were willing to spend an hour or two learning how to use it, we could probably suggest simple tests you could take to get an identification and diagnosis of the Faults. DIY diagnosis (with help from knowledgeable forum members) is cheap. Throwing parts/ engines at the issue(s) is $EXPENSIVE.

B) If you are going to own an "out-of-warranty" vehicle, you will either spend $Thousands paying others to maintain/ repair it, or you need to be able to diagnose the problem with the help of forum members and proper references, and do many repairs/replacements yourself, as LABOR is the $Expensive line item. If YOU did the replacement of the items you list after "I've replaced the following", then YOU ARE able to do your own diagnosis and repairs if you have a basic P-code reader, best entry-level tool for reading DME (Engine Control Module) Fault Codes. It won't read Fault Codes or Parameters in other modules, but all the complaints you cite are DME Faults, so I would suggest learn to walk -- THEN learn to run. That is NOT meant to be condescending, but simply a suggestion NOT to be intimidated by "Experts."

C) So if you don't have a scan tool, but would like to add some new dimensions to your DIY capability, just let us know: (1) Do you have a Windows 10 laptop? (2) Do you have an iPhone or Android device? (3) Do you have any other vehicles you would like to be able to troubleshoot for codes?

In summary, I would suggest that you develop a "Plan" for how to diagnose and maintain your vehicles, and if you have never used a scan tool, to specifically develop a Plan for what to start with, and how to improve your diagnostic capabilities later with INPA or ISTA (powerful BMW shop software which is free download, but takes hours to learn how to use due to the wide range of things it is able to do).

As for your issues, a good tech should ALWAYS get all data saved in the DME (more than Fault Codes ;-) and do further testing before rendering a diagnosis, but simply based upon your description above, it sounds like your PCV valve which is an integral part of the plastic Valve Cover, has failed. If you have difficulty opening the oil filler cap when the engine is running, and hear a whistling from the cap area when engine is running, AND have oil consumption issues and white/gray smoke coming from the exhaust, AND have rough idle with enrichment issues, those symptoms are consistent with a bad PCV valve.

Fault Codes, whether P-codes or corresponding BMW Fault Codes, may be of minimal help diagnosing the problems you are describing, but there are other tests which you can do that may help identify the issues, and we should know what codes are present to make sure we aren't headed in the wrong direction.

Please answer questions above if you wish further help,
George


Hey George, I appreciate you taking the time to write back. To answer some of your question: I had the engine swapped this last summer around July. None of the issues I am currently having were experienced with the old engine. These issues started AFTER the engine was replaced. As far as it running lean I've noticed the car doesn't have the power or response that I've known the last engine to have & the car isn't running quite the same as when I first got it back after the engine swap. I haven't been driving the vehicle much since I don't want to further damage it ( would you recommend not driving until fixed?) But around + 1 Quart every 300-500 miles (rough estimate).
I was under the impression that the PVC is what was being replaced under recall as the mechanic wanted to replace this part ( or place a oil catch can) as there is vacuum in the oil filler cap. but upon receiving the recall I went ahead and had it done at the closest BMW shop which is roughly 2 hours away. That had me stuck thinking the PCV was replaced but yet I was still having the same issues. Is the PCV Valve the only thing need or any hoses? (Waiting for response on the last couple questions you had)
That's being said. All of the work that has been done ( including engine swap) to the car has been done by a friend who is mechanically incline. He has a OBD reader but I'm not sure of the softwares he has specifically for foreigns as he usually works on common cars. At this point I would be up to the task of learning how to DIY Diagnostics as throughout the process I've learned quite a bit and would like to begin working on my own car. I have an (APPLE IPHONE). I may run into the possibility of having to do work on a (2008 Lexus IS250) and a (2014 Ford Mustang V6) so buying a scanner is an option. Which do you recommend?- Thanks in advance I appreciate the advise thus far.
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      01-24-2019, 10:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
...Is the PCV Valve the only thing need or any hoses?...At this point I would be up to the task of learning how to DIY Diagnostics as throughout the process I've learned quite a bit and would like to begin working on my own car. I have an (APPLE IPHONE). I may run into the possibility of having to do work on a (2008 Lexus IS250) and a (2014 Ford Mustang V6) so buying a scanner is an option.
I suppose it's just human nature to want to think that we, and our automobiles, are better & exotically different from the riff-raff.

However, the fact remains that SAE P-codes can be read by a cheap ($35) stand-alone scan tool that can be used to read and clear P-codes, read Freeze Frame Data, and read Parameters or Live Data on any car sold in the US since 1996. While it is true that a P-code reader will NOT be able to do diagnostics on the other ~ 20 modules of the BMW, it WILL be able to do most things needed for engine (DME) module diagnostics.

It will also do the same on the Lexus & Mustang, so even if you later graduate to using INPA/ISTA on a Windows 10 Laptop (which has a LOT of advantages as far as saving screens, etc.) over a more limited device (phone/tablet), you will be able to do basic engine control module (DME on your BMW) diagnostics on ANYTHING for ~$35.

I have invested many hours learning how to use INPA, and it is a very powerful tool (requires Windows Laptop). However, I started with a P-code reader, and worked my way up. Here are two different P-code readers I have used, (1) one is a cable and software for connection/ download to a Windows Laptop ($30) and (2) the other a stand-alone scan tool that plugs into ANY VEHICLE OBD II socket ($35). Both work on any vehicle sold in US since 1996:
https://www.amazon.com/ScanTool-OBDL...eywords=obdwiz
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AutoLin...ords=autel+319

Your issue appears to be a failed PCV valve which is built into the plastic valve cover, requiring replacement of the ENTIRE valve cover on your model. As mentioned above, that is NOT what was replaced in the "Breather Heater" or "Angle Valve" recall. Full information on that recall is given in the attached RCRIT pdf.

HOWEVER, I would recommend reading any current Fault codes, along with related Freeze Frame Data BEFORE spending ~ $300+ on a new VC. Please let us know what codes/ FF Data you have.

George
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File Type: pdf RCRIT-17V683-0566 BreathHeat.pdf (1.06 MB, 533 views)
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      01-25-2019, 01:12 PM   #8
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I've no personal experience, as my valve cover was pretty rough so I simply replaced it, but my dad ordered a new diaphragm and cover for his VW and avoided replacing the valve cover. We simply popped the plastic piece out and replaced the entire unit with one from ebay: It's been fine for two years now.

https://www.ebay.com/i/272342068577?chn=ps

again, no personal experience, but it may be a cheap/quick DIY option if you have no other leaks/issues with the cover.
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      01-25-2019, 02:23 PM   #9
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N52 engine oil burning rtough idle

I work on my daughter's 2007 328i E90 N52 and she had a issue with rough idle, burning oil on acceleration and oil consumption. I saw that she had some leaks around the valve cover, so I pulled and replaced the valve cover with new gaskets. I did verify first that the Crankcase Vent Valve was bad (torn) and it was permanent so I bought the valve cover with a new CCV built in. I have seen some who cut the bad ones out and install a replacement kit, but I didn't trust doing that with a dremel tool and plastic flying everywhere, and wondering if there would be a good seal on the new one... FWIW
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      01-25-2019, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbartles View Post
I work on my daughter's 2007 328i E90 N52 and she had a issue with rough idle, burning oil on acceleration and oil consumption. I saw that she had some leaks around the valve cover, so I pulled and replaced the valve cover with new gaskets. I did verify first that the Crankcase Vent Valve was bad (torn) and it was permanent so I bought the valve cover with a new CCV built in. I have seen some who cut the bad ones out and install a replacement kit, but I didn't trust doing that with a dremel tool and plastic flying everywhere, and wondering if there would be a good seal on the new one... FWIW
I looked a bit into the replacement kit and a few diys on the procedure. I'm not sure of the fitment/ seal they'd use to have it hold up. Or if it would fix it long term. Once confirm with( George) some fault codes. I might consider having this done if no other leaks/ problems on the VC. As having the whole valve cover replaced is the only option, it's something to try see if it fixes the problem and worst case scenario if it doesn't fix it go ahead and get the VC.
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      01-27-2019, 12:36 PM   #11
Alexismeza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
...Is the PCV Valve the only thing need or any hoses?...At this point I would be up to the task of learning how to DIY Diagnostics as throughout the process I've learned quite a bit and would like to begin working on my own car. I have an (APPLE IPHONE). I may run into the possibility of having to do work on a (2008 Lexus IS250) and a (2014 Ford Mustang V6) so buying a scanner is an option.
I suppose it's just human nature to want to think that we, and our automobiles, are better & exotically different from the riff-raff.

However, the fact remains that SAE P-codes can be read by a cheap ($35) stand-alone scan tool that can be used to read and clear P-codes, read Freeze Frame Data, and read Parameters or Live Data on any car sold in the US since 1996. While it is true that a P-code reader will NOT be able to do diagnostics on the other ~ 20 modules of the BMW, it WILL be able to do most things needed for engine (DME) module diagnostics.

It will also do the same on the Lexus & Mustang, so even if you later graduate to using INPA/ISTA on a Windows 10 Laptop (which has a LOT of advantages as far as saving screens, etc.) over a more limited device (phone/tablet), you will be able to do basic engine control module (DME on your BMW) diagnostics on ANYTHING for ~$35.

I have invested many hours learning how to use INPA, and it is a very powerful tool (requires Windows Laptop). However, I started with a P-code reader, and worked my way up. Here are two different P-code readers I have used, (1) one is a cable and software for connection/ download to a Windows Laptop ($30) and (2) the other a stand-alone scan tool that plugs into ANY VEHICLE OBD II socket ($35). Both work on any vehicle sold in US since 1996:
https://www.amazon.com/ScanTool-OBDL...eywords=obdwiz
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AutoLin...ords=autel+319

Your issue appears to be a failed PCV valve which is built into the plastic valve cover, requiring replacement of the ENTIRE valve cover on your model. As mentioned above, that is NOT what was replaced in the "Breather Heater" or "Angle Valve" recall. Full information on that recall is given in the attached RCRIT pdf.

HOWEVER, I would recommend reading any current Fault codes, along with related Freeze Frame Data BEFORE spending ~ $300+ on a new VC. Please let us know what codes/ FF Data you have.

George
Hey George I was able to get the codes. I have pictures on the fault codes and Freeze codes.
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      01-27-2019, 02:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Hey George I was able to get the codes. I have pictures on the fault codes and Freeze codes.
I was presuming from your PM that you would be posting those.

If you need any help with how to create a jpg file or attach it to a post on this forum, let us know, or are you trying to keep us in suspense?

George
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      01-27-2019, 06:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Hey George I was able to get the codes. I have pictures on the fault codes and Freeze codes.
I was presuming from your PM that you would be posting those.

If you need any help with how to create a jpg file or attach it to a post on this forum, let us know, or are you trying to keep us in suspense?

George
Freeze Frame Data
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      01-27-2019, 07:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Hey George I was able to get the codes. I have pictures on the fault codes and Freeze codes.
I was presuming from your PM that you would be posting those.

If you need any help with how to create a jpg file or attach it to a post on this forum, let us know, or are you trying to keep us in suspense?

George
Some codes
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      01-27-2019, 07:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Hey George I was able to get the codes. I have pictures on the fault codes and Freeze codes.
I was presuming from your PM that you would be posting those.

If you need any help with how to create a jpg file or attach it to a post on this forum, let us know, or are you trying to keep us in suspense?

George
More codes
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      01-27-2019, 07:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Hey George I was able to get the codes. I have pictures on the fault codes and Freeze codes.
I was presuming from your PM that you would be posting those.

If you need any help with how to create a jpg file or attach it to a post on this forum, let us know, or are you trying to keep us in suspense?

George
Last of codes thanks
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      01-27-2019, 08:38 PM   #17
gbalthrop
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Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Freeze Frame Data
Good Photos & good info. I note that you have 4 codes, one each from each of the 4 O2 Sensors, Pre-cat & Post-cat on each Bank, Bank 1 = cyl. 1-3 & Bank 2 = cylinders 4-6. That would be expected from oil getting sucked into the intake due to a failing PCV Valve, along with oil smoke from the tailpipe.

I must admit, I was wondering from the start why you felt it was running too lean -- this confirms opposite of that, and it was the assertion that it was running "lean" that made me want to see codes before jumping on the "PCV valve incorporated in VC so replace VC" bandwagon.

I'll let someone with more knowledge of the "Short Term Fuel Trim" and "Long Term Fuel Trim" offer an opinion of those values in the Freeze Frame Data you have posted. My swag is that the large negative numbers in the range of "-10" indicate that the sensor and DME are trying to lean out the overly-rich mixture but the "trim" is unable to do so because of the amount of oil being ingested. Remember that Freeze Frame Data is a "snapshot" of engine Parameters at the moment a Fault Code is set, and the 15 lines on 3 different Autel screens all relate to P0175 (THAT is what the first of the 15 lines is telling you ;-).

Simply so you learn how to use the Autel Scan Tool correctly, I would suggest checking to see IF you can display FF Data for the other 3 codes (P0172, P0420 & P0430) to confirm they were set at similar engine conditions (cruising at steady speed ~ 50 with engine fully warmed up). Don't bother taking photos of the tool for those other FF Data, unless wildly different, as we've ALREADY basically confirmed the consensus diagnosis BEFORE the P-codes were provided, namely you need to replace the Valve Cover (at least you/your mechanic know how to do that from the recent gasket change ;-)

See pages 31 & 32 of your Autel 319 Manual for how to get FF Data. Unfortunately, I don't see any instructions on what do do if MULTIPLE codes (DTCs). If you figure that one out, please let us know. If you didn't figure out how to download the 47-page manual in pdf format, let me know. It's handy to have if you use a computer -- you can't lose it, and it's searchable.

If anyone has a different take on all the data, please advise.

George
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      01-28-2019, 01:08 AM   #18
Alexismeza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Freeze Frame Data
Good Photos & good info. I note that you have 4 codes, one each from each of the 4 O2 Sensors, Pre-cat & Post-cat on each Bank, Bank 1 = cyl. 1-3 & Bank 2 = cylinders 4-6. That would be expected from oil getting sucked into the intake due to a failing PCV Valve, along with oil smoke from the tailpipe.

I must admit, I was wondering from the start why you felt it was running too lean -- this confirms opposite of that, and it was the assertion that it was running "lean" that made me want to see codes before jumping on the "PCV valve incorporated in VC so replace VC" bandwagon.

I'll let someone with more knowledge of the "Short Term Fuel Trim" and "Long Term Fuel Trim" offer an opinion of those values in the Freeze Frame Data you have posted. My swag is that the large negative numbers in the range of "-10" indicate that the sensor and DME are trying to lean out the overly-rich mixture but the "trim" is unable to do so because of the amount of oil being ingested. Remember that Freeze Frame Data is a "snapshot" of engine Parameters at the moment a Fault Code is set, and the 15 lines on 3 different Autel screens all relate to P0175 (THAT is what the first of the 15 lines is telling you ;-).

Simply so you learn how to use the Autel Scan Tool correctly, I would suggest checking to see IF you can display FF Data for the other 3 codes (P0172, P0420 & P0430) to confirm they were set at similar engine conditions (cruising at steady speed ~ 50 with engine fully warmed up). Don't bother taking photos of the tool for those other FF Data, unless wildly different, as we've ALREADY basically confirmed the consensus diagnosis BEFORE the P-codes were provided, namely you need to replace the Valve Cover (at least you/your mechanic know how to do that from the recent gasket change ;-)

See pages 31 & 32 of your Autel 319 Manual for how to get FF Data. Unfortunately, I don't see any instructions on what do do if MULTIPLE codes (DTCs). If you figure that one out, please let us know. If you didn't figure out how to download the 47-page manual in pdf format, let me know. It's handy to have if you use a computer -- you can't lose it, and it's searchable.

If anyone has a different take on all the data, please advise.

George
This being the case. Would you advice the car not be driven until the problem is fixed? What damage could driving the car cause if any?
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      01-28-2019, 10:03 AM   #19
nsjames
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pushing a ton of oil through the exhaust will damage the catalysts.

might take a hundred miles, might take a thousand, but eventually it will kill them.
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      01-28-2019, 11:54 AM   #20
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Do you know the history of this used engine that you install? Was it confirmed running (with no smoke) before you installed it?

I only ask because of the possibility that your replacement engine is bad, and replacing the valve cover (with integrated PCV valve) wouldn't help. I'm not trying to scare you with the worst case outcome, but just make sure you properly diagnose the issue before throwing money away on parts. It seems clear that the burning oil is the main issue, but it's not clear if that's caused by a bad PCV valve or another internal engine issue such as worn rings, worn valve seals, etc.
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      01-28-2019, 04:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
Do you know the history of this used engine that you install? Was it confirmed running (with no smoke) before you installed it?

I only ask because of the possibility that your replacement engine is bad, and replacing the valve cover (with integrated PCV valve) wouldn't help. I'm not trying to scare you with the worst case outcome, but just make sure you properly diagnose the issue before throwing money away on parts. It seems clear that the burning oil is the main issue, but it's not clear if that's caused by a bad PCV valve or another internal engine issue such as worn rings, worn valve seals, etc.
Yeah the engine was pulled from a bmw (81k ) involved in a rear end collision no roll over. It was compression tested( never asked for the numbers👎&#127997 it was running when removed. I was not there when ran. Wasn't burning oil the seller stated. I'm still in contact with him.
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      01-28-2019, 06:39 PM   #22
gbalthrop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexismeza View Post
Yeah the engine was pulled from a bmw (81k ) involved in a rear end collision no roll over. It was compression tested( never asked for the numbers👎&#127997 it was running when removed. I was not there when ran. Wasn't burning oil the seller stated. I'm still in contact with him.
Since BOTH banks have same codes, it would seem reasonable that the oil is being drawn in through the intake manifold (essentially ALL cylinders evenly receiving same amount of oil). Also, you do NOT have O2 Sensor fault ON DECELERATION which one would expect if bad rings.

Intake of oil from PVC & Valve Cover can be confirmed by removing the hose that draws crankcase vent air from the Valve Cover to the Intake Manifold. It should be QUITE soaked in oil at this point.

How many miles has the car been driven with the oil burning issue already? Or how many quarts of oil have you had to add? You DO risk damaging the cats by continued operation, and you are carboning-up your intake (which Techron added to gas may improve). Your car/your money, but I would change the VC (doing the job myself). The equation changes if you pay someone else $Labor$.

If you do your own work, the VC can be replaced for $300 to $400 max. If you do NOT do your own work, then consider getting something under warranty.

George
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