[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The only place where you can read both ambient pressure and absolute pressure: Pressure in front of throttle body aka TMAP. I also logged Wastegate DC 1&2, Intake cam timing, exhaust cam timing and actual throttle value.

Just checked the results of the last log. Ambient pressure was 0.99 bar. Max Absolute pressure was 2.041. So we actually saw over 15psi peak.



No, I did not not see that comment

Shiv

I thought that the TMAP reads about 1 psi higher than the intake manifold.
The boost in the dyno graph is intake manifold pressure.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I thought that the TMAP reads about 1 psi higher than the intake manifold.
The boost in the dyno graph is intake manifold pressure.

If the throttle remains open (and doesn't flutter), pressure on either side of the throttle body should be essentially the same. Maybe <0.25psi difference. Not much at all. Bigger difference will come from MAP sensor/voltage conversions inherent in the BT software.

Shiv

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

why is Vishnu so defensive

Like mentioned earlier a 6MT stg. 1 vs stg. 1 simple. or just wait for the Stage 2 vs. Stage 2

its so hard to compare things when its stage 1 vs stage 2 or which map version.

I would go with the company that has the most experience with German cars and that is GIAC for 17 years with Porsche, Audi , VW's + all the E46 VF supercharged systems.

[edo]

Everything as expected in this vid. As I wrote in the other thread - something was wrong with another Proceede car.

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

Like mentioned earlier a 6MT stg. 1 vs stg. 1 simple. or just wait for the Stage 2 vs. Stage 2

You can't compare different stages of different tunes. Period. Hotrod's car doesn't have any supporting mods, so technically BMS could've called the map "stage 0"

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

why is Vishnu so defensive

Like mentioned earlier a 6MT stg. 1 vs stg. 1 simple. or just wait for the Stage 2 vs. Stage 2

Interesting theory except the way I see it is the GIAC car has more mods than the Procede car (Intercooler+more). So one car has a bunch of mods that equate to stage 3, and another car has all those mods plus more... they have a race, and the one with less mods wins. Of course the difference here is that one car is better tuned for the mods than the other....

So which is it.... does the mods set the stage and the tune is done to the mods, or does the tune set the stage regardless of mods?

[mwscircle]

omg... -_- another thread... either way.. any tunes what you prefer its still fast... very fast...?? do we need to count the 2-3 hp difference holy shit batman.. i'lll post my videoo soon

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Big Tom-- Are you running the new LagFix 2 beta map? Or just the current 7-29 map that is posted on our forum?

Shiv

Since I only have the V3 rev 1 I do not run the new LagFix 2 beta map.
These races are performed with the 7-29 stage 3 map.

Shiv, it would be really interesting to be able try the newer, stronger maps with the Rev 2 instead...
I will soon participate on this event:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297106

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

Interesting theory except the way I see it is the GIAC car has more mods than the Procede car (Intercooler+more). So one car has a bunch of mods that equate to stage 3, and another car has all those mods plus more... they have a race, and the one with less mods wins. Of course the difference here is that one car is better tuned for the mods than the other....

So which is it.... does the mods set the stage and the tune is done to the mods, or does the tune set the stage regardless of mods?

That's not correct. Both Big Tom and Enrita have full stage3 mods: IC, fully catless and DCI.

[enrita]

Actually Big Tom is fully catless and i am not but dont think matter that much.
Big tom was running UT set to 88%

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by enrita

Actually Big Tom is fully catless and i am not but dont think matter that much.
Big tom was running UT set to 88%

Oh, sorry, I thought you were fully catless. Actually Procede stg3 and stg2 differ quite significantly if you compare the dyno curves at the top end. Just as Shiv says, not being fully catless means that catless DPs just push the restriction to the next set of cats. The gas has got colder there so that the restriction is less, but it is a restriction still at those power levels. You are right, its not "much", but you can definitely feel it. The more aggressive tune, the more difference fully catless makes. You don't pass emissions with your second cats anyways, so you could as well move a step forward and go full catless just as Big Tom. That would help especially when you get Giac Stage2+.

[enrita]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Oh, sorry, I thought you were fully catless. Actually Procede stg3 and stg2 differ quite significantly if you compare the dyno curves at the top end. Just as Shiv says, not being fully catless means that catless DPs just push the restriction to the next set of cats. The gas has got colder there so that the restriction is less, but it is a restriction still at those power levels. You are right, its not "much", but you can definitely feel it. The more aggressive tune, the more difference fully catless makes. You don't pass emissions with your second cats anyways, so you could as well move a step forward and go full catless just as Big Tom. That would help especially when you get Giac Stage2+.

you actually pass emissions with the second cat. at least in EU. i tested with tune on in italy and passed without issues.

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

That's not correct. Both Big Tom and Enrita have full stage3 mods: IC, fully catless and DCI.

I was incorrect, but my point was that The GIAC guys want Stg1 vs stg1 when really the stage is dictated by the mods and the tuners that make maps to suit those levels of hardware mods. Technically both cars in this video are stage 3. The fact is that currently there is nothing from GIAC to suit stage 3 mods.

Any tuner could rename there stage 3 tune as a stage 1 , and then the stage 1 map would go better... My point is that to say stage 1 vs stage 1 is really more a question of the way the tuner chooses to tune for a particular stage. You can only do a fair comparison of the same stage when the tuners have the same idea of what a stage is.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

I was incorrect, but my point was that The GIAC guys want Stg1 vs stg1 when really the stage is dictated by the mods and the tuners that make maps to suit those levels of hardware mods. Technically both cars in this video are stage 3. The fact is that currently there is nothing from GIAC to suit stage 3 mods.

Any tuner could rename there stage 3 tune as a stage 1 , and then the stage 1 map would go better... My point is that to say stage 1 vs stage 1 is really more a question of the way the tuner chooses to tune for a particular stage. You can only do a fair comparison of the same stage when the tuners have the same idea of what a stage is.

We couldn't agree more on these principles.
Getting to the details though, Enrita's Giac car is not stage3 car in Procede standards since it is not catless

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by enrita

Actually Big Tom is fully catless and i am not but dont think matter that much.
Big tom was running UT set to 88%

Yes, I could raise the UT by 3% from default when I did get rid of the precats.
No limps and issues at all, just pure performance!

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

We couldn't agree more on these principles.
Getting to the details though, Enrita's Giac car is not stage3 car in Procede standards since it is not catless

The truth is that I didn't felt any more power at all when I did get rid of my second cats.
It's the precats who makes the difference to the performance. That's it.

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu

I just wanted to add that you GIAC guys seem to think that because Stage 1 is perceived to be very good, that stage 2 and 3.... will be much much better. Did anyone stop to think that perhaps GIAC have tuned stage 1 to a higher level than other tuners, and now have less room to move for higher stages?

I have to agree with this. From the graphs (boost, afr, power) it seems (to me) that GIAC pushed their flash above some limits in order to compete with the piggybacks (for example they seem to hold more boost to redline, even if the boost is lower at most points), and they succeeded in creating quite a stir.

[enrita]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I have to agree with this. From the graphs (boost, afr, power) it seems (to me) that GIAC pushed their flash above some limits in order to compete with the piggybacks (for example they seem to hold more boost to redline, even if the boost is lower at most points), and they succeeded in creating quite a stir.

they dont hold more boost to redline than other tunes. I have 2 boost gauges and have kept an eye on them the whole weekend.

[I335]

Before the comparisons are done, you guys should all agree on all the aspects of the tunes you'll be comparing and make a list, as I hope we're not looking for just quickness. Of course quickness is important, but as the difference in quickness is not really that great between the 3 tunes, I'd be much more interested in the other qualities of the tunes such as smoothness, driveability, throttle modulation/tip in, lag elimination, etc., etc, i.e. how it feels overall. Unless you drive your car and are racing at WOT all the time (which no one does unless it's a drag car only) it is much more about the way the power is delivered that makes a tune most enjoyable, not "what's the absolute fastest I can go every time I step on the gas" as the ONLY time that aspect of a tune is valuable is at the drag strip or when you feel you need to prove yourself on the street. I want a tune that feels great in everyday driving situations. Gaining a half-second during a race or 20 more HP is much less valuable to me for the car I drive every day than having a powerful and silky smooth car that feels linearly wonderful all the time...

[enrita]

Originally Posted by I335

Before the comparisons are done, you guys should all agree on all the aspects of the tunes you'll be comparing and make a list, as I hope we're not looking for just quickness. Of course quickness is important, but as the difference in quickness is not really that great between the 3 tunes, I'd be much more interested in the other qualities of the tunes such as smoothness, driveability, throttle modulation/tip in, lag elimination, etc., etc, i.e. how it feels overall. Unless you drive your car and are racing at WOT all the time (which no one does unless it's a drag car only) it is much more about the way the power is delivered that makes a tune most enjoyable, not "what's the absolute fastest I can go every time I step on the gas" as the ONLY time that aspect of a tune is valuable is at the drag strip or when you feel you need to prove yourself on the street. I want a tune that feels great in everyday driving situations. Gaining a half-second during a race or 20 more HP is much less valuable to me for the car I drive every day than having a powerful and silky smooth car that feels linearly wonderful all the time...

+1000 thats how Giac Flash feels like.

[I335]

^ If we're looking for the best 1/4 mile times and most HP & Torque - we've all chosen the wrong brand...

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by enrita

Actually Big Tom is fully catless and i am not but dont think matter that much.
Big tom was running UT set to 88%

Thanks for that. I PM'd Big Tom but didn't get an answer.
People were questioning the validity of my video but the person that ran the Procede was on 80% settings in my video.
If this car was on 88% settings then there's nothing that surprising about the different outcomes.

[enrita]

BigTom car is very well fine tuned and very very fast. I think its one of the fastest Procedes around.