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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > I cloned my MSV70 DME



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      08-24-2019, 05:00 PM   #2289
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Originally Posted by dwsavenko View Post
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Originally Posted by dwsavenko View Post
Hey Dudes!

Is there anyway someone can help me out?! I have been running the x28i to x30i tune for a while, and its great but I get some strange startup hiccups and occasional idle stumble.

When I go back to factory all is well. New DISA's no leaks etc. Getting to the point where I'm just going to stay with the latest factory .opa and .oda files due to smooth running. That or sell the 3 stage and go back to factory.

There is a MAFless tune as well, but is has no Cruise Control, so that is a dealbreaker, eventhough it runs better. I have a Euro IAT as well.

I know BMW in their later factory tunes (2011 ish) tuned the factory files to run much smoother and get rid of cold-start issues etc. I want to take the latest 130i or 330i (2011 ish file revisions) MSV80 files from INPA and change the powerclass and or copy and past the tune into my .oda. I just don't know the exact process, as info is so spread out.

I don't mind paying a bit if you are familiar, I have tried HASS, but he seems too busy to assist right now. Which I totally understand. Time = Money.

Any help would be amazing. I am an IT tech for a living , so this shouldn't be this hard lol.

Hass - Can you confirm if my suspicions are correct, is perhaps the x28i to x30i file based on older 2006-2008 factory files which were not "optimized" by BMW. Again it's a know issue that BMW fixed cold-start idle and other issues in later 2011 factory tune files.

Thanks Dudes!!

To me more precise. Can someone take the following Bimmerlabs files and make a "flashable" .oda for me? The program files already match Hass's RSA delete, so it's possibly just a matter of changing the Powerclass byte in the 130i file to match my 128 car, checksum correction, and whatever else needs done?

Here is the file in question:

I used the following VIN to create a project in Bimmerlabs, to gain access to the stock files: JM27634

Is this a huge secret still kept? I don't care about tuning, I just want to try different stock files on my 128i. This particular file would be one of the latest 130i stock revisions released, and should be very very stable and smooth.

I have some others who said they could change the powerclass byte for me, but they are only familiar with the location for the MSV70. Again not trying to step on toes, (Is this info what keeps private tuners going?) I just thought our goal was to be able to self-tune to some extent.

Thanks!!
From memory, your problem is not as straight forward as it seems.

There were no MSV80 variants of the 330 sold in North America. Those where EU based cars. Hass spliced the US and EU tunes together. At the minimum the EU tune would need modification to the Country code and some catalyst parameters.

Its probably possible to pull an E89 3.0 tune from a US car and correct the power class and vehicle type but who knows how that would run.

I can't really help, I never spent much time with the MSV80 and finding single byte parameters like these require disassembly.
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      08-24-2019, 05:03 PM   #2290
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Originally Posted by dwsavenko View Post
Doh!

I thought all factory 130i files would be 3 stage?

Hass, that makes sense.

So just a matter of changing the one byte from 01 to 02 etc?

Can someone send me a DM screenshot of which byte in my hex editor to manipulate?

Once I have that I can play around to my hearts content it seems.

Sorry I am not trying to be an idiot, but so much conflicting information out there, I just need a "simple" guys guide to changing the correct powerclass byte.

I thought there was a bunch of checksum corrections to be done, but if your Bimmerlabs site does all that for me from the .bin file I upload, that is amazing!!
It depends on which software and DME you have. It's different for every one. You could make a 130i project to download files, but a 130i could be an N52 with MSV70, MSV80, or it could have an N53.

Yes, it already corrects checksums - including the "hidden" ones.
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      08-24-2019, 05:13 PM   #2291
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Ahh that makes sense. No MSV80 330i variants.. because they stopped making the 330i after 2006, and went only to 335i and 328i's.

Does the wrong country code really messes things up I am guessing? Car would run worse due to different catalyst components entirely I'm guessing..

That definitely makes it clearer in my brain why one cannot just take any generic 3 stage N52 tune and make it happen.

Also if the powerclass byte is unknown between .oda bin files, then that disassembly part doesn't sound "easy". So without knowledge of which byte is what.. changing random bytes and uploading / flashing and hoping for the best is pretty stupid and time wasting..

So back to square one for me lol.

The current x128i to x130i file is great when on throttle. It just seems to run a little off at times during cold / initial start-up's, and sometimes sitting at a stop-light after cruising for a while. Feel's like the mixture values are just "off".

I am guessing the x130i file does have the latest factory tuning specs attached to it, which are in the RSA delete program range? (I.E. there is no more "current" factory tune data to try out).

If an E89 test 3.0 file is possible, please send me the .oda. I will flash and report back. I have no problem "guinea pigging" my car for the better of us all!

Lastly.. I have heard that the DISA's will still "function" on factory tunes.. though not optimized.. so still some advantage to leaving a 3-stage in.. even without a modded tune? I don't want to lose power if running a stock tune again.


Last edited by dwsavenko; 08-24-2019 at 05:19 PM..
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      08-24-2019, 05:40 PM   #2292
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You can do that yourself - make a project for an X3 or X5 3.0si (any random bin will work), and start from there.

Also if you are clever it's no too hard to find small byte values by comparing binaries, if you already know what the values should be and can recognize the pattern.
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      08-24-2019, 08:44 PM   #2293
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Nice..

Great idea!

Compare two known files find the differences, start playing.

If I try this out again, I'm definitely going to try and find an MSV70 car.

Thanks Team!

Last edited by dwsavenko; 08-25-2019 at 03:20 AM..
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      09-15-2019, 07:06 AM   #2294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
It depends on which software and DME you have. It's different for every one. You could make a 130i project to download files, but a 130i could be an N52 with MSV70, MSV80, or it could have an N53.

Yes, it already corrects checksums - including the "hidden" ones.
The 125i and 130i here in Europe never got the N53 motor. They had the N52 until production end. Also the 125i has the 3 stage manifold which makes it easy to upgrade it to an 130i.
For maximum power output you should use the 330i software of an E92/93 with N52 motor. The N52 in the 330i has 272HP, but it was built from september 2006 to september 2007 only. They are very rare here. In september 2007 we got N53.

dwsavenko If you like you can PM me your VIN and I will have a look, if the 128i and the 330i have the same base version. Finding the power class byte shouldn't be to hard.

I think i also found the power class byte for the N53, but as i have a N54 i can not test it.

Last edited by Jonas225; 09-15-2019 at 03:48 PM..
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      09-17-2019, 02:33 AM   #2295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas225 View Post
The 125i and 130i here in Europe never got the N53 motor. They had the N52 until production end. Also the 125i has the 3 stage manifold which makes it easy to upgrade it to an 130i.
For maximum power output you should use the 330i software of an E92/93 with N52 motor. The N52 in the 330i has 272HP, but it was built from september 2006 to september 2007 only. They are very rare here. In september 2007 we got N53.

dwsavenko If you like you can PM me your VIN and I will have a look, if the 128i and the 330i have the same base version. Finding the power class byte shouldn't be to hard.

I think i also found the power class byte for the N53, but as i have a N54 i can not test it.
Hey Jonas!

Thanks for that info! I think the issue I have, as well as most of us post 2006 - early 2007 N52 owners have is those early 330i tunes are based on an MSV70 CPU. Most all of ours are MSV80's, as such the maps don't match up. I don't think close enough to work with Hass's and co's "stitch" tuning methods. I will shoot you my VIN anyways, I don't mind trying something out. If you think you found the powerclass byte, I could try to edit one of the maps I have been analyzing. Though it needs to be a 0049QK0MI20S program version I believe.

On a side note I feel like an idiot, I FINALLY got a code for a cylinder 3 misfire after chasing intermittent "stumbles" for over a year. I could not determine if it was tune, injectors etc. I had though it was part-tune issue, because my car seemed to run much better on stock tunes.

I realized my car already had new coils, and heard some rare reports of injectors going wonky.

I hooked up to INPA and ran a test which monitors each cylinder directly. Sure enough cylinder 3 looked higher towards the red then any other of the cylinders. I then used INPA to trigger each injector and listen. Silly as it sounds cylinder 3 had a slightly different "clink" then all the others. Somewhat deeper is all I could explain. Anyways found a re-man for $11 on Amazon due to last one in stock, replaced and BOOOM!

Car now actually run's 100% smooth with no more idle hiccups and strange missing on cold starts etc. I think the injector wasn't fully failed, but definitely was not producing proper flow and or spray pattern.

I can't believe one small issue caused me so much grief. Morale of the story is to make sure your car is running 100% before modding to the DISA tune, or your going to amplify your car's issues quite a lot.

Hass- The standard 130i tune runs GREAT now. Having been running stock for a few weeks to help diagnose things, when I finally put back the 130i tune, and had a perfectly running engine, the power and smoothness is something I guess I never felt before, even though it still was "okay" with my issues. At highway speed even in 6th gear I can accelerate with ease.

Pretty stoked now.

Anyways, if anyone needs a EURO IAT PM me. I probably won't use it anymore as the MAF-less tune disabled my cruise control on my specific model.

A happy camper for now, just waiting for the next issue to arise. I don't think my car has given me more then a month or two without SOMETHING going astray lol.

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      09-24-2019, 06:02 PM   #2296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas225 View Post
The 125i and 130i here in Europe never got the N53 motor. They had the N52 until production end. Also the 125i has the 3 stage manifold which makes it easy to upgrade it to an 130i.
For maximum power output you should use the 330i software of an E92/93 with N52 motor. The N52 in the 330i has 272HP, but it was built from september 2006 to september 2007 only. They are very rare here. In september 2007 we got N53.

dwsavenko If you like you can PM me your VIN and I will have a look, if the 128i and the 330i have the same base version. Finding the power class byte shouldn't be to hard.

I think i also found the power class byte for the N53, but as i have a N54 i can not test it.
I have an n53 (325i) and would love to test it if you could send instructions on where it is.
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      09-25-2019, 08:12 AM   #2297
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Ok here is what i found out:

Both the 128i US and 330i N52 EU model have the MSV80 ECU and also have the same base version MM10S.

The latest 128i ZUSB is: 8619524 (manual transmission and maybe ZF automatic transmission??) and 8619558 (GM automatic transmission).

The latest 330i ZUSB (E92) is: 8619534

As there is no RSA bypass for that base version, you can not change the byte and just flash it. You can flash the file with WinKFP, read it back with BB App 2.0 or a tuning tool like Kessv2, change the byte and flash it again.
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      10-05-2019, 12:48 AM   #2298
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aftermarket (chinese) DISA valves

I've found this thread re 3SIM tuning really helpful. At Freedomfries88's suggestion, I tested my DISA valves, which lead to a long, strange trip with chinese aftermarket DISA valves.

I had the problem of oversize pins on the small (chinese) DISA, so I machined the pins down until the connector fit. Don't ask...

As for the large DISA, I am about to post this review on the cheezy chinese seller's products on ebay. This may seem extreme, but after wasting way too much time on this, its clear that there are only one or two chinese aftermarket manufacturers, but many sellers getting them bulk, maybe thru Shenzen connections, or Alibaba, or whatever. Just read before you buy...


SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THESE AFTERMARKET DISA VALVES, SAVE YOURSELF

PROBLEMS AND READ!!!

After going around with this seller attempting resolution, I am

compelled to share what I found to save other buyers the same misery.

My BMW uses this DISA valve on the intake manifold. I found my old OEM

DISA valves were slow and didn't close or open fully. I used INPA

which has diagnostic functions that allow tests of many sensors and

actuators on the car. Both this DISA (left or large) and smaller were

replaced with aftermarket parts, both clearly chinese made.

I received this part from the seller autopartszone2008, AKA suretop,

AKA gaoshuoauto_6, (i will add others as I find them) in Feb 2019 and

was only able to test this in July 2019. Using INPA on my laptop, and

connected to the DISA connectors in my car, I was suprised to see the

large LEFT DISA *opens when commanded to close, and closes when

commanded to open*.

I have been very patient trying to resolve this with the seller, and

was sent a second unit in early August 2019 which displayed the same

problem. At this point, ALL CHINESE AFTERMARKET DISA VALVES MUST BE

CONSIDERED SUSPECT UNTIL TESTED WITH BMW INPA SHOP TEST PROGRAM!

Anyone with a three stage manifold that uses one of these DISA valves

will actually *hurt* the car's performance, and could conceivably

damage the car, as the controls will be adding fuel for intake

manifold conditions that are not present.

This seller is attempting to evade the fact that these DISA valves are

flawed and DO NOT OPERATE PROPERLY! They had me send back both flawed

units at my expense, but now are refusing to abide by our agreement

and refund my purchase $. Again, I never used either DISA they sent,

but only tested them to verify the flawed operation.

BUYER BEWARE! IF YOU HAVE NOT TESTED ONE OF THESE DISA VALVES, YOU

CANNOT BE ASSURED IT IS WORKING AS ADVERTISED!


BTW, I did get everything tested, verified operational, re-assembled, flashed, and running. And......

This is like a different car. Mileage is up from 24ish to over 27 without hypermileing, but the real difference is the WOT power is *VerY* noticeably improved.

I don't get here much, but I'd like to thank each and every poster who has contributed, but mostly the big guys that figured out how to hack the MSV-80, and pull out and make available the 330 tune.

Just a great project, challenging enough for me at the level I work, very nice results for the effort on my E91Xi.

Last edited by bryanjb; 10-05-2019 at 01:05 AM..
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      10-28-2019, 09:40 AM   #2299
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Does anyone have a solution to 2FA4?

I flashed a friend's car with the Bimmerlabs tune on the weekend and it's stuck in this limp mode and drives like it's only got 50HP...

Is the solution to change the powerclass in the CAS to match? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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      10-28-2019, 10:13 AM   #2300
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You shouldn't change the CAS.

What model is your friend's car?

I got 2FA4 and it drove like it had 50hp when my DME and CAS didn't match up... DME had the high powerclass and 330 tune and CAS had the low powerclass.

I reinstalled the bimmerlabs bootloader and tune, which put the DME back to low powerclass with 330 tune, and got all the power back and eliminated the 2FA4 code.

If you are running the bimmerlabs tune on a 330 or 130, it won't work right because it will have the lower powerclass in the DME and high powerclass in the CAS.
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      10-28-2019, 11:43 AM   #2301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanjb View Post
I've found this thread re 3SIM tuning really helpful. At Freedomfries88's suggestion, I tested my DISA valves, which lead to a long, strange trip with chinese aftermarket DISA valves.

I had the problem of oversize pins on the small (chinese) DISA, so I machined the pins down until the connector fit. Don't ask...

As for the large DISA, I am about to post this review on the cheezy chinese seller's products on ebay. This may seem extreme, but after wasting way too much time on this, its clear that there are only one or two chinese aftermarket manufacturers, but many sellers getting them bulk, maybe thru Shenzen connections, or Alibaba, or whatever. Just read before you buy...


SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THESE AFTERMARKET DISA VALVES, SAVE YOURSELF

PROBLEMS AND READ!!!

After going around with this seller attempting resolution, I am

compelled to share what I found to save other buyers the same misery.

My BMW uses this DISA valve on the intake manifold. I found my old OEM

DISA valves were slow and didn't close or open fully. I used INPA

which has diagnostic functions that allow tests of many sensors and

actuators on the car. Both this DISA (left or large) and smaller were

replaced with aftermarket parts, both clearly chinese made.

I received this part from the seller autopartszone2008, AKA suretop,

AKA gaoshuoauto_6, (i will add others as I find them) in Feb 2019 and

was only able to test this in July 2019. Using INPA on my laptop, and

connected to the DISA connectors in my car, I was suprised to see the

large LEFT DISA *opens when commanded to close, and closes when

commanded to open*.

I have been very patient trying to resolve this with the seller, and

was sent a second unit in early August 2019 which displayed the same

problem. At this point, ALL CHINESE AFTERMARKET DISA VALVES MUST BE

CONSIDERED SUSPECT UNTIL TESTED WITH BMW INPA SHOP TEST PROGRAM!

Anyone with a three stage manifold that uses one of these DISA valves

will actually *hurt* the car's performance, and could conceivably

damage the car, as the controls will be adding fuel for intake

manifold conditions that are not present.

This seller is attempting to evade the fact that these DISA valves are

flawed and DO NOT OPERATE PROPERLY! They had me send back both flawed

units at my expense, but now are refusing to abide by our agreement

and refund my purchase $. Again, I never used either DISA they sent,

but only tested them to verify the flawed operation.

BUYER BEWARE! IF YOU HAVE NOT TESTED ONE OF THESE DISA VALVES, YOU

CANNOT BE ASSURED IT IS WORKING AS ADVERTISED!


BTW, I did get everything tested, verified operational, re-assembled, flashed, and running. And......

This is like a different car. Mileage is up from 24ish to over 27 without hypermileing, but the real difference is the WOT power is *VerY* noticeably improved.

I don't get here much, but I'd like to thank each and every poster who has contributed, but mostly the big guys that figured out how to hack the MSV-80, and pull out and make available the 330 tune.

Just a great project, challenging enough for me at the level I work, very nice results for the effort on my E91Xi.
This is very interesting because I have a 3stage intake manifold on my 328i with MILVs by cobramarty and a bpc tune and my WOT performance is shit, partial throttle and it pulls hard. Fucking weird. I bought new disa valves from ECS I think so maybe they are knock offs.
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      10-29-2019, 09:43 PM   #2302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilord View Post
You shouldn't change the CAS.

What model is your friend's car?

I got 2FA4 and it drove like it had 50hp when my DME and CAS didn't match up... DME had the high powerclass and 330 tune and CAS had the low powerclass.

I reinstalled the bimmerlabs bootloader and tune, which put the DME back to low powerclass with 330 tune, and got all the power back and eliminated the 2FA4 code.

If you are running the bimmerlabs tune on a 330 or 130, it won't work right because it will have the lower powerclass in the DME and high powerclass in the CAS.
Turns out I couldn't change the CAS' setting anyways. I ended up changing the 6BMOT's powerclass to match and all is well now!
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      10-29-2019, 10:30 PM   #2303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Does anyone have a solution to 2FA4?
That's what I have been wondering too. I thought there was a solution, but have never been able to find it.
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      10-29-2019, 11:02 PM   #2304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Does anyone have a solution to 2FA4?

I flashed a friend's car with the Bimmerlabs tune on the weekend and it's stuck in this limp mode and drives like it's only got 50HP...

Is the solution to change the powerclass in the CAS to match? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
It's a power class mismatch. What car is it?

You can't code the power class on the DME. Coding is locked after 10 hours.
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      11-04-2019, 10:18 AM   #2305
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hassmaschine
I paid for a bpc tune on my 328i with a 3stage intake manifold, milvs and an AFE intake. The car ran much worse than on the stock tune especially at high rpm so I reflashed the stock backup back onto the DME through iflash. I would much rather have the OEM 330i software than the paid tune because they messed with the throttle so much that its basically full throttle at 1/2 pedal. I have a .org file I was wondering if I could open it and edit it to the 330i parameters and flash it back to the vehicle using iflash.
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      12-02-2019, 04:54 PM   #2306
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For sh$ts and Burbles

Now that the N54 burble parameters have been made public, I thought I should take a look and see if the N52 /MSV70 has similar maps. The answer is yes.

(ip_t_min_pu_n_tco) Minimum delay of PUC activation and the Sport mode compliment is found in the MSV70 maps.

Looks like the Z4 (top two maps) had a more aggressive burble than the standard sedan (bottom two).

Essentially this is the delay time, in seconds for the fuel to be cut off after the throttle has been lifted.

Stock my E89 has a two second fuel cut off and I'll be cutting that back to 1 second. I had the floor boards jumping around on an aggressive down shift.
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      01-29-2020, 05:48 PM   #2307
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Can any UK readers suggest a reliable BDM 100 reader?
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      01-29-2020, 07:25 PM   #2308
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Can any UK readers suggest a reliable BDM 100 reader?
Why do you need one?

Much of what you need for this DME can be done via ODB
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      01-30-2020, 03:06 AM   #2309
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My DME is water damaged so I need to clone it and, from what I've read in this thread, BDM100 hardware is required as you cannot read all 4 chips via OBD.
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      01-31-2020, 05:23 AM   #2310
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Would someone be able to have a quick look at this ebay item and suggest if it will be suitable to clone an MSV70 DME please?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153239244128

It looks like it has a siemens connector for the circuit board but I don't see how this would be connected to power pins as shown at the bottom of the third picture in the first post of this thread.
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