[BMWF90M5]

Assume they are doing this to compete with the RS6

[FreshlySnipes]

Originally Posted by SWFLf10

I wonder if there's a way to start a google doc spreadsheet with rows of types of vehicles (M lite, true M, Alpina, etc…) where people could put in their local dealer and have a column for the MSRP markup and date they gathered the info…

I found the Inventory manager for West Coast and got him on the phone. We went through all the allocations for dealers in the west. Super nice guy, very helpful. After I had a list of dealers with upcoming allocations, I just started dialing and asking about markups. I then had a list of dealers with upcoming allocations who don't do markups.

Takes some work but definitely worth the result.

[TXSchnee]

Or you can just order from the store you always do. My dealer has zero ADM on my incoming iX M60. I have ordered 4 other vehicles from my SA, and he takes care of me.

[silverstar335]

Originally Posted by FreshlySnipes

I found the Inventory manager for West Coast and got him on the phone. We went through all the allocations for dealers in the west. Super nice guy, very helpful. After I had a list of dealers with upcoming allocations, I just started dialing and asking about markups. I then had a list of dealers with upcoming allocations who don't do markups.

Takes some work but definitely worth the result.

We should create a list of dealerships who are advocates of ADM.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Again: G61 is not coming. Your logic (which I would otherwise share) loses against my facts.

Not arguing you, but can you make sense of that? Is it something they might change if the M5 touring demand is high?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Not arguing you, but can you make sense of that? Is it something they might change if the M5 touring demand is high?

I try not to think too hard in these cases.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Achievement Tracker

Assume they are doing this to compete with the RS6

BMW = Best Money(making) Way

it's about making money

for some reason wasn't able to make it profitable in the past but now it seems they have found a way to cream it

[edwinm3]

who pays over sticker on a bmw? why?

[CarbonBlackJack]

Originally Posted by G80M4

BMW = Best Money(making) Way

it's about making money

for some reason wasn't able to make it profitable in the past but now it seems they have found a way to cream it

Let's remember we are talking about BMWNA, an organization that makes some pretty questionable decisions.

Regarding the RS4, were it not for this car potentially seen as cannibalizing some of the smaller suv offerings from Audi, I think they would have put it firmly in place to take advantage of the M3 Touring hype and get some converts buying Audi ("hey wagon fans, we hear you", etc)- we know not as exciting as an M3T but think it would do well vs the more costly RS6

[Dgjo2022X5MC]

Timing will be perfect for me as I'll have had my f95 for 3 years or so and ready to change!!!! This is awesome.

[ebirotedu]

Someone has already done that:

https://www.markups.org/

Originally Posted by silverstar335

We should create a list of dealerships who are advocates of ADM.

[Chas8283]

Originally Posted by Dgjo2022X5MC

Timing will be perfect for me as I'll have had my f95 for 3 years or so and ready to change!!!! This is awesome.

Same!

[signes]

Lots of different opinions here but I believe they saw the success of the RS6 and see an opportunity. E63 rumored to drop the V8 for the S214 gen. Product plans don't likely support a non-M wagon.

[OSee]

Originally Posted by 10"

If the M5 Touring is coming, the G61 will be coming—-otherwise it makes no financial sense to bring the M5 Touring to the US.

I know you are very knowledgeable about this—but this has happened time and time again over many years to get past federalization costs.

So bring in a G61 meant for the masses (in Europe, anyway, wagons don't sell in the US) just to sell 1,500 M5 Touring Editions? That seems like a lot of work just to avoid costs on such a low volume car.

BMW is not trying to sell a billion M5 Touring editions (regardless of the hype here, that demand doesn't exist, even in M5 form). This move is to satiate the demands of a small segment of loyal buyers and prevent them from going elsewhere.

Maybe if the Wagon audience tries really really hard to get Americans to use "Touring" you might change folks minds. I mean...just look how far the Convertible guys are getting with 'Vert'

With all that aside...this thing is going to be a beast and I wish I had use for it.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by OSee

So bring in a G61 meant for the masses (in Europe, anyway, wagons don't sell in the US) just to sell 1,500 M5 Touring Editions? That seems like a lot of work just to avoid costs on such a low volume car.

BMW is not trying to sell a billion M5 Touring editions (regardless of the hype here, that demand doesn't exist, even in M5 form). This move is to satiate the demands of a small segment of loyal buyers and prevent them from going elsewhere.

Maybe if the Wagon audience tries really really hard to get Americans to use "Touring" you might change folks minds. I mean...just look how far the Convertible guys are getting with 'Vert'

With all that aside...this thing is going to be a beast and I wish I had use for it.

I think this makes sense. My only thing would be making it available for order. If you have the ability to import the M5 touring, then you should be able to import a G61 right? My understanding is that the E wagon has to be ordered, it's not available on the lot. No reason not to offer the same option for a G61. Especially if you're already sending the M version.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by NGT2

My only thing would be making [the G61] available for order. If you have the ability to import the M5 touring, then you should be able to import a G61 right? My understanding is that the E wagon has to be ordered, it's not available on the lot. No reason not to offer the same option for a G61. Especially if you're already sending the M version.

I'm thinking someone wants a certain number of units to be sold before they sign off on offering any particular model. That's how it works for my (non automotive) Tier 1 company. Then there's the potential for G61 cannibalizing sales of existing, and potentially more profitable models. How many G61 buyers would have purchased a 5 Series Sedan or X5 had a G61 not been offered? It has to make business sense.

[NotSharocks]

Of all the things that could be a lie from Germany, this is on top of the list.

#sus

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

I'm thinking someone wants a certain number of units to be sold before they sign off on offering any particular model. That's how it works for my (non automotive) Tier 1 company. Then there's the potential for G61 cannibalizing sales of existing, and potentially more profitable models. How many G61 buyers would have purchased a 5 Series Sedan or X5 had a G61 not been offered? It has to make business sense.

Yeah, I totally get that aspect. My question is based in a rough understanding that may be incorrect. My understanding (maybe wrong) is that you can't just order a G31 because BMW didn't take whatever the necessary steps are to have the touring model approved to import and sell in the US. Logically, I would think those steps are largely, if not completely, redundant between and M and non-M variation of the same body style (touring, in this case). So, my conclusion was to ask, why not just let it be available for special order? If you did this, you would massively cut down on cannibalization. And you could mark up a little as a special order. The people that end up willing to special order are just as likely to be people that would've bought a Volvo or a Benz wagon because they are after that specific car.

My conclusion, taking your very valid points into account, is that you don't hurt anything by making it available to order. You don't disrupt demand for other models, you might gain some new customers, and you can justify a little more margin with exclusivity. Mercedes does this, I think. I doubt it's hurting their SUV or E class sales much.

Of course, this all assumes my vague understanding of the importing offering processes has any accuracy.

[silverstar335]

Originally Posted by ebirotedu

Someone has already done that:

https://www.markups.org/

We should start updating the site, just a thought.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by 10"

If the M5 Touring is coming, the G61 will be coming—-otherwise it makes no financial sense to bring the M5 Touring to the US.

I know you are very knowledgeable about this—but this has happened time and time again over many years to get past federalization costs.

I don't think BMW ever said exactly why it was not viable to bring the G81 (M3 touring) stateside.

But one big factor AIUI was that the battery in the luggage compartment was not separated from the passenger compartment (in the touring, not the sedan/coupe), violating US-specific safety regulations. I'm not a G3x specialist, but a quick search seems to imply this was also the case for the G31 (current 5er touring).

So it could be that BMW decided to relocate the G61 and/or G99 battery to the front (and due to the hybrid battery likely being behind the driver/under the back seats, it could work from a weight distribution point of view), thus dodging this bullet. The federalization costs might mean the G99 is considerably (but not prohibitively) more expense than the G90 sedan and so the business case is still there for a limited edition (which then might not need federalization at all, not sure), we'll see...

[Quadruple VANOS]

Could be BMW didn't need two wagons and the M5 Touring was more attractive of a business proposition than the M3 Touring in the US.

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Could be BMW didn't need two wagons and the M5 Touring was more attractive of a business proposition than the M3 Touring in the US.

I'm leaning toward this as well.

Similar to the line of thought as to why the Honda Civic Type R is not offered in automatic. Not only does it cannibalize sales of the manuals (though they'd sell a ton of automatics); it also hurts the image of the 'manual' racecar they're trying to push.

I'd bet they didn't want to hurt M3 sales and were willing to take a hit in the M5 department (which sells significantly worse, like the M8).

Maybe it's a test bed for wagons coming to the states in limited formats. All the number crunchers have to do is look at how many F31s sold vs F30s to know they hurt F30 sales for a tiny subsect of gains on a bespoke wagon platform.

M3s sell. Base 5 series sell. M5s don't sell. Might have been their thought process.