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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?



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      11-24-2008, 01:21 PM   #2927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
I'd say you cannot be sure if you try only the new version on your MSD81 car. If behaviour does not change, then it might well be that BMW is right in saying that it is fine now, already. But maybe, it was not O.K. before, but nevertheless they changed nothing.

If the behaviour did change, that would in fact prove a lie (namely the "cars from 03/08 are not affected"), despite that you'd probably be glad about it.

The better approach would be to take a pre-v29.2 (or updated after January 2009) MSD80 car for a comparison to your MSD81 car. Only this way you can really tell. If I were an MSD81 owner, I'd surely take that road, given what I've read on this forum.

Thanks for the input!
I am very interested in trying a pre v29.2 car. I wish I knew somebody that has one. But if I take the v.32 and give proof of a big lie I will make it public here. Pavel, my friends car an MSD81 was affected big time .
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      11-24-2008, 04:56 PM   #2928
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Wait and see what others report about the v.32 fix. This will be a busy thread in the new year.
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      11-25-2008, 01:15 AM   #2929
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      11-25-2008, 06:59 PM   #2930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
No, I don't, see my comments at the end of this posting. But that is up to anyone themselves.

To further clarify the situation, I have made a flow-chart, which should be included into the FAQ:

Could we ask for updated wastegates if we have a pre 9/07 build?
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      11-26-2008, 03:23 AM   #2931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinkoh View Post
Could we ask for updated wastegates if we have a pre 9/07 build?
That was a good one! Try it! Guess what "you have to understand ..." means?

It's even worse as with the soon-to-fail HPFPs before the 3rd generation from 09/08 (part no ...881). In that case, there is deficient hardware which will most probably lead to failures. BMW will exchange defective ones, but only if problems occur within the warranty period. Here in Germany, this is only two years.

With the wastegates before build date 09/07, it's also flawed hardware. But the lack is declared purely cosmetic, so BMW neither replaces that within nor outside the warranty period. They fix that with software UNLESS you demand something else expressis verbis. But then, you'll have to live with rattles or pay for an exchange.

What's more, while trying to hide what they did to prevent warranty claims for rattles, they applied the same fix to unaffected cars (09/07 to 03/08) unnecessarily. Now that they have to admit to that, they offer no compensation to affected owners apart from undoing the fix.
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      11-26-2008, 09:39 AM   #2932
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My dealer agreed to change the turbos of my 08/07 e93 in waranty because rattle is still there even with software update 30.xx

Did BMW modified the wastgates on the 2008 turbos?
Do you know the part numbers for these new turbos?
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      11-26-2008, 10:14 AM   #2933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
My dealer agreed to change the turbos of my 08/07 e93 in waranty because rattle is still there even with software update 30.xx

Did BMW modified the wastgates on the 2008 turbos?
Do you know the part numbers for these new turbos?
Yes, cases such as yours are covered as per SIB 111307. When a software upgrade does not fix the rattle, wastegates are exchanged for the new ones (see point 3 in the SIB). Part numbers for the improved wastegate actuator rods are in there, too. There are two different part numbers (well, actually four, but two are only for RHD cars) for the whole turbos in the ETK, but it is not specified when they changed or which one is employed in what cars.

What is interesting here is that the SIB clearly states which models are affected:

Quote:
All with N54 engine from the start of production to January 17th, 2008 production
and also:

Quote:

Note: The Test Plan currently indicates that vehicles are only affected up to 09/2007; this statement is incorrect and will be corrected in D54.0.
Could it be that BMW recycled incorrect information in their turbo lag acknowledgement by saying that cars from 09/07 on do not need the software rattle fix?
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      11-26-2008, 10:53 AM   #2934
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I am not interested in the new wastgate actuators but in new turbos...

BMW tried to solve the problem with new software and new actuators... but the real problem is that the wastgates inside the turbo get loose with time.

So i need to know the part number of the new turbo if it exist.

My BMW dealer already changed the actuators... so now kindly he proposed me to change the 2 complete turbos
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      11-26-2008, 11:00 AM   #2935
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It will be interesting to see what the criteria are for replacement of entire turbos with the new version as compared with just replacement of actuators. New turbos are not cheap, but labor on actuator replacement is not exactly free.
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      11-26-2008, 11:12 AM   #2936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
I am not interested in the new wastgate actuators but in new turbos...

BMW tried to solve the problem with new software and new actuators... but the real problem is that the wastgates inside the turbo get loose with time.

So i need to know the part number of the new turbo if it exist.

My BMW dealer already changed the actuators... so now kindly he proposed me to change the 2 complete turbos
As far as I have understood the source of the problem, it is actually the wastegate actuator rods, as Mr. 5 explained in detail here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132037

and here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176269

With that in mind, I doubt that replacing the turbos will fix anything. Matter-of fact there are reports here in the forum, where people with replaced turbos had more problems than before.

As I said, there are no part numbers for wastegates in the ETK, only for complete turbos. I believed that the sole change in the turbos was the wastegate/actuator part, but I don't know for sure.

However, if you want to try this, here you go:

11 65 7 563 685
11 65 4 564 710
11 65 7 563 863
11 65 7 563 017

Those are the numbers for the "right" turbos. Add 1 to those part numbers for their respective left counterparts. I don't know which are old/new and which are for LHD/RHD.
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      11-26-2008, 11:37 AM   #2937
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I think that the problem is NOT located in the actuators but in the watgates inside the turbo.

BMW changed the actuators that close the wasgates with more force hoping to solve the problem cheaply, but if the wasgate is too lose inside the turbo it will continue to rattle. So they did the software update 29.2 to open the wastgates at idle and "mask" the problem...

It is interesting to understand if the pat number of the turbo changed because the actuator changed (the turbo come complete with actuator) or if they modified the internal wasgate to last longer?????
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      11-26-2008, 12:02 PM   #2938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
I think that the problem is NOT located in the actuators but in the watgates inside the turbo.

BMW changed the actuators that close the wasgates with more force hoping to solve the problem cheaply, but if the wasgate is too lose inside the turbo it will continue to rattle. So they did the software update 29.2 to open the wastgates at idle and "mask" the problem...

It is interesting to understand if the pat number of the turbo changed because the actuator changed (the turbo come complete with actuator) or if they modified the internal wasgate to last longer?????
As I said, I don't really know if something else apart from the actuators has been changed in the turbos.

From what Mr. 5 told us, the old actuator rods stretch over time, thus the wastegates don't shut any more. BMW replaces those rods with new ones that don't stretch.

If in your case neither a rod replacement nor a software update have helped, the reason for the problem may indeed be different, though. BTW: Have you read E92Fan's postings about miscalibrated alignment machines? If your shop uses such a machine and your new wastegate actuators are misaligned, there may be a gap that causes rattle. However, if you still have the dreaded v29.2 or v30.x software, the wastegates should be open during idle, so that this cannot be the problem.

So, just go for it and hope for the best!
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      11-26-2008, 06:12 PM   #2939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
That was a good one! Try it! Guess what "you have to understand ..." means?

It's even worse as with the soon-to-fail HPFPs before the 3rd generation from 09/08 (part no ...881). In that case, there is deficient hardware which will most probably lead to failures. BMW will exchange defective ones, but only if problems occur within the warranty period. Here in Germany, this is only two years.

With the wastegates before build date 09/07, it's also flawed hardware. But the lack is declared purely cosmetic, so BMW neither replaces that within nor outside the warranty period. They fix that with software UNLESS you demand something else expressis verbis. But then, you'll have to live with rattles or pay for an exchange.

What's more, while trying to hide what they did to prevent warranty claims for rattles, they applied the same fix to unaffected cars (09/07 to 03/08) unnecessarily. Now that they have to admit to that, they offer no compensation to affected owners apart from undoing the fix.
Hmm, bad sign... It means I need to sell my car before the warranty runs out. Or, get my turbos/wastegate replaced before then. Stupid BMW.
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      11-26-2008, 10:10 PM   #2940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Yes, cases such as yours are covered as per SIB 111307. When a software upgrade does not fix the rattle, wastegates are exchanged for the new ones (see point 3 in the SIB). Part numbers for the improved wastegate actuator rods are in there, too. There are two different part numbers (well, actually four, but two are only for RHD cars) for the whole turbos in the ETK, but it is not specified when they changed or which one is employed in what cars.

What is interesting here is that the SIB clearly states which models are affected:



and also:



Could it be that BMW recycled incorrect information in their turbo lag acknowledgement by saying that cars from 09/07 on do not need the software rattle fix?

hmmmmm now were talkin. I have 5/08 and I have LAG!!!! Someone is gunna get fisted if I dont get a fix too. Or Ill take my ball and go home!!!
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      11-27-2008, 02:58 AM   #2941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBBMWE46M3 View Post
hmmmmm now were talkin. I have 5/08 and I have LAG!!!! Someone is gunna get fisted if I dont get a fix too. Or Ill take my ball and go home!!!
I think you are screwed anyway: If the SIB is right, the 09/07 border would just move to 01/08. So this might affect my 09/07 build: it could have deficient wastegates, too.

But this does not apply to your car, yours should be an after-03/08 MSD81 case (well, 99%, it might still be MSD80, in which case you're lucky). Just look at my flowchart above. According to BMW, your car is "not affected", thus (please check most likely one yourself):

o Sure, we'll fix this non-existing problem for you.
o Nope.

BTW: As I already wrote here, if BMW will change anything for MSD81 cars in January, they must have lied to us in that they state post-03/08 cars are "not affected". Either way, you see, you must be wrong!

Last edited by meyergru; 11-27-2008 at 08:27 AM..
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      11-27-2008, 10:23 AM   #2942
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MSD81

My car build date is 06/08 how can I know if I have MSD81?

Thanks for any info.
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      11-27-2008, 11:35 AM   #2943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJCAR335I View Post
My car build date is 06/08 how can I know if I have MSD81?

Thanks for any info.
Use the flowchart, Luke!

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      11-27-2008, 06:24 PM   #2944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Use the flowchart, Luke!

Thanks but it looks like the chart say maybe yes maybe no?
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      11-28-2008, 02:23 AM   #2945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJCAR335I View Post
Thanks but it looks like the chart say maybe yes maybe no?
It clearly tells you have MSD81 with 06/08. The only period when you cannot be 100% sure is from 03/08 to 05/08.
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      11-28-2008, 10:47 AM   #2946
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Thanks

Thank you
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      11-28-2008, 10:54 AM   #2947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyergru View Post
Have you read E92Fan's postings about miscalibrated alignment machines? If your shop uses such a machine and your new wastegate actuators are misaligned, there may be a gap that causes rattle. However, if you still have the dreaded v29.2 or v30.x software, the wastegates should be open during idle, so that this cannot be the problem.

So, just go for it and hope for the best!

Is this tool used to set the right rod length (turning the rod with small key)?
Is this tool used only when replacing wastgate actuator on old turbo?
If I get new turbos, the actuators will already be on them, and calibrated at fabric... the dealer has nothing to align?
Are they misaligned at the factory?

I hope I will get right turbos with right actuators correctly aligned.
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      11-29-2008, 01:28 PM   #2948
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meyergru

I have a 10/06 built car and I used to be on pre 29.2 version for few months before I was upgraded to 30.0.2. I never felt rattling when I was on pre 29.2 version. With the software fix, do you think that I can get the rattling or my car will go back to pre-29.2 level where I never felt rattling.

I know there are still lot of unknown things as software is not released yet, but I was worried that the new software should not start rattling problem which I never had before.
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