[JB335]

I brought my car to AE to have my exhaust put on. Nick and Dustin both complimented the AR downpipes saying they were the highest quality pipes they've seen. Nick specifically pointed out the fact that one thing that made the pipes superior was the fact that the welds were not shaved or sanded down.

I had a minor exhaust leak problem and we couldnt tell where the air was coming from. I called Andrew and left a message on his voicemail asking for his opinion. He assured me that it wasn't the downpipes and if in fact it was a crack or leak in the weld, he would repair or replace them for me. We actually talked for a good fifteen minutes about my issue. He may come across a little abrasive in this thread. But hes passionate about his product and a good guy to do business with.

edit: oh yeah, it wasnt the downpipes.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by JB335

I brought my car to AE to have my exhaust put on. Nick and Dustin both complimented the AR downpipes saying they were the highest quality pipes they've seen. Nick specifically pointed out the fact that one thing that made the pipes superior was the fact that the welds were not shaved or sanded down.

I had a minor exhaust leak problem and we couldnt tell where the air was coming from. I called Andrew and left a message on his voicemail asking for his opinion. He assured me that it wasn't the downpipes and if in fact it was a crack or leak in the weld, he would repair or replace them for me. We actually talked for a good fifteen minutes about my issue. He may come across a little abrasive in this thread. But hes passionate about his product and a good guy to do business with.

edit: oh yeah, it wasnt the downpipes.

Hey, thanks for the kind words!!!

Nick and the guys at AE definitively know their stuff. We've installed a few of their systems, and my customers have always been VERY happy.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ar design

Pics as requested earlier. Taken on our fab bench, before final prep for shipment, so ignore the dust/fingerprints please

Nice pics

Mike

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Nice pics

Mike

Who are you??

[bmwmike]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

Different products require different levels of quality and functionality. China is suitable for consumer products and low tech mechanical goods, maybe not so much for high end medical imaging devices or other electronics. If we dont have a chinese manufacturing boom , we wont have wal marts and targets and you will be paying $$'s for basic home goods.

So are you buying all your consumer products from some special store which sells made in usa products?

US made products arent the best quality by default ...you know that.. US made cars fine case in point. Yeah now they are getting there ...

Bottomline ...in this case of a simple DP or several other automotive goods ...they are highly capable and its a total waste of resources and time to be made in a high cost labor country. We should focus on the next generation nano tech and stuff like that and leave the rest to others for an efficient working of economy.

Whether you like it or not ...in the world of globilization ...materials and goods will be made in the cheapest and most efficient way, that's what a flat world does to you.

I don't buy all my items made in the USA. I live in Canada and I look for who makes the best quality products that will last and source it anywhere in the world, but i try to buy locally made if the same quality product is made local, comparing price.

China does not make my list, currently, for good quality products. I'm not for a toss away society. The endless cycle of making cheap quality items over and over again, since they don't last, is using up unnecessary resources and causing tons of unnecessary pollution. Yes, anyone, including manufacturers in the USA can produce poor quality. China is the spot where the labor is cheap and China has capitalized well on producing cheaply made products demanded by the majority.

Most, if not all, the tool and dye and advanced manufacturing machines have been provided to China by countries like the USA and Germany. It's the quality of the inputs to that manufacturing that are poor quality, as i have said before. Numerous articles have been in major business journals on the poor quality metal produced in China, with their lack of proper grading and testing.

There is a small market for quality products that will be made outside of China since China doesn't want to make them as that is not their market. It's not a waste of resources (efficiency). The best will survive in that small "quality" market as they will be the most efficient but they will be a higher cost manufacturer.

I wouldn't call China an efficient producer when you factor in how many times they have to make a product over and over again since the life of the product is short. If China could make products that last, and offset the higher cost with less profit grabbed by middlemen and government, then they would be a powerhouse to be reckoned with. Then, and only then, would I knowingly buy from China.

[Hit_Apex]

ar pipes are beautiful. wish I had a set. anyway, this thread has become unproductive other than to point out ignorances on both sides of the issue.

[Vudoo4u2]

are we seriously arguing about american vs chinese and being pro american "quality" on a german car website?

man, my head is spinning

[vbmw335]

[QUOTE=bmwmike;5923187]I don't buy all my items made in the USA.

Same applies here ...dont buy all chinese products , there are better quality chinese products than some american products . Its as simple as that ...do your due dilligence.

Dont tell me that you have never bought a chinese made product in your life ...if you never did you live in a different planet

Yes I have read tons of business articles/HBS case studies too when i was in B school, all that has changed since then. Like i said before I worked for one of the largest US Fortune Consumer products company, Over the years i can tell you gap has closed and some areas even surpassed. The USA is falling behind in many areas.

Even though products are made it China ..they are only as good as what the US customer demands. If we demand high quality , they will deliver high quality. There is nothing called Chinese QS , its all USA QS or globally accepted standards and components are tested by SGS labs in Shenzen. HK etc...Looks like you are still stuck in the 90's...its different now.
There is no special competency USA has in this day and age of global world. Technology and skills are highly portable across continents.

[ar design]

How did your race go?

[ano0oj]

Originally Posted by Vudoo4u2

are we seriously arguing about american vs chinese and being pro american "quality" on a german car website?

man, my head is spinning

haha, i was thinking the exact same thing while reading this..


But in the end, this little argument is dumb. It's like buying a polo. Sure you can drop $70 on one with a little more fancy stitching or you can buy another one for $30 with less fancy stitching...for some the stitching just doesn't justify the extra $40, and for others the extra $40 is their own reassurance that they're buying a 'better quality' product...which ultimately in the end serves the same purpose.

I have nothing against AR, they make quality products and have heard nothing but good things from them.

but for some of us that extra $300 isn't really worth it if it only comes down to welds and so on...show an advantage in the performance field(once someone does a dyno with VK) and then we all will talk if its worth it or not.

[vbmw335]

I felt bad for my buddy , He traded his Ferrari 360 to buy his SL65 yesterday. I smoked him...by 3 cars and then we shut down. The car is fast and luxurious but its toooo Heavy. Its 4600 lbs.

My car is 3400 lbs and makes 700HP (Crank) and 720 Lbft , His car is 4600 lbs makes 660 Hp , 730 TQ ..Go figure the weight is the killer.

Regardless ...he has a 911 turbo too...and still thinks he will beat 911 after he learns to drive his car better. Bottomline SL65 traps 123 at best , 911 TT with k24/18g traps 130-133 depending on driver fuel boost etc. Renntech tune should put it at 127.

[ar design]

Hehehe thats dope What kind of Ferrari did he trade in? I'm jonesing for an F430...... Selling the Vette so I can pick up something new in the spring.

Come out here, I'll lay the smack down on both of you with the Vette

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by ar design

Hehehe thats dope What kind of Ferrari did he trade in? I'm jonesing for an F430...... Selling the Vette so I can pick up something new in the spring.

Come out here, I'll lay the smack down on both of you with the Vette

Yeah the Vette's are evil ....its just that i havent come across one that will pull on me yet. I raced a cams and headers c6zo6 , i pulled 3 cars and then after 120 ...i put like 5 cars on him. I think 911 has gearing advantage.

Now if you have a twin turbo vette...i have to get some GT30 turbos and then it might be a good showdown.

what kind of vette and specs?

[ar design]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

Yeah the Vette's are evil ....its just that i havent come across one that will pull on me yet. I raced a cams and headers c6zo6 , i pulled 3 cars and then after 120 ...i put like 5 cars on him. I think 911 has gearing advantage.

Now if you have a twin turbo vette...i have to get some GT30 turbos and then it might be a good showdown.

what kind of vette and specs?

APS twin turbo setup, pretty heavily modified by us

At the end of the day, I'd rather have a Ferrari I've been obsessed with them since I was 3.

But I will say, its a HUGE kick in the pants to drive. Roll on it in 2nd gear and people FLIP out. 690rwtq on pump gas is a good time. We added methanol, and are switching to E85..... Shooting for over 800rwhp on stock longblock. We already hold the record for stock longblock on straight 91oct at 670rwhp

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by ar design

APS twin turbo setup, pretty heavily modified by us

At the end of the day, I'd rather have a Ferrari I've been obsessed with them since I was 3.

But I will say, its a HUGE kick in the pants to drive. Roll on it in 2nd gear and people FLIP out. 690rwtq on pump gas is a good time. We added methanol, and are switching to E85..... Shooting for over 800rwhp on stock longblock. We already hold the record for stock longblock on straight 91oct at 670rwhp

wow ...what dyno? what is the trap?

[ar design]

ImportSports....Dynojet. No good trap speeds yet. Needed tires, then broke tranny

[rcracer_tx]

Originally Posted by ar design

Sorry, where do you see me being disrespectful? Where am I creating a false reputation? The only false claims that have been made were against ME. Might want to read the thread before commenting.

You were very disrespectful towards Vince in the way you kept insinuating that the pipes will just keep failing, and are chinese garbage. It is not so much what you said, but the way you did. Commenting on poor quality welds on a product that you have never seen in person is not proper business etiquette IMHO... The pipes come with a lifetime warranty, so they must have faith in the quality.

What false claims were made against you? It's a pretty well known that a good shop in china can make a product just as well as an American one for a lot less money. Jumping in other peoples business with their suppliers, and then calling them a liar is a lowshot at best, and not the way to build respect in the community.

Just so I am not called a fanboi of VK: I have never spoken with Vince, or bought any products of his. I am just stating what my opinion is on the way AR is attacking VK like they are the small company trying to prove something to a larger one

[ar design]

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

You were very disrespectful towards Vince in the way you kept insinuating that the pipes will just keep failing, and are chinese garbage. It is not so much what you said, but the way you did. Commenting on poor quality welds on a product that you have never seen in person is not proper business etiquette IMHO... The pipes come with a lifetime warranty, so they must have faith in the quality.

What false claims were made against you? It's a pretty well known that a good shop in china can make a product just as well as an American one for a lot less money. Jumping in other peoples business with their suppliers, and then calling them a liar is a lowshot at best, and not the way to build respect in the community.

Just so I am not called a fanboi of VK: I have never spoken with Vince, or bought any products of his. I am just stating what my opinion is on the way AR is attacking VK like they are the small company trying to prove something to a larger one

Where did i say the pipes will keep failing? The VK fan club needs to start reading the thread and stop inventing things I "said".

You can tell a lot about a weld from a picture - if you know what to look for. No need to see them in person to make the comments I made, and i stand by them as factual. Although, we are acquiring a set of VKs, and we will be able to give you even more info. I have stated what can be deduced from a picture. Some NDT testing may reveal more.

If you want to have a discussion on the facts - feel free. if you want to talk about hurt feelings, not going to waste my time.

I am having a hard time finding where I said Vince was lying. I asked him to back up his claims - which I believe to be false - and I'd be glad to be proven wrong.

What false claims were made against me? Please read the thread. I don't feel like rehashing everything AGAIN. I've stated it more than once, as have others.

If you guys want to discuss the facts, feel free. Otherwise, please stop wasting my time, and forum bandwidth - and book yourself a spot on Oprahs couch.

[persian54]

I'm too lazy to read all 8 pages....

but like this one and the small one i smarted a day or so ago...
whenever DP and AR and VK are in the same sentence...

war breaks out...

[Bomis]

Originally Posted by ar design

Hey, thanks for the kind words!!!

Nick and the guys at AE definitively know their stuff. We've installed a few of their systems, and my customers have always been VERY happy.

Same thing for me when i had them installed at one of the best tuningshops in Sweden

[Former_Boosted_IS]

I just want to say that everyone on this board that has bought from AR Design will boldly say that Andrew is incredibly easy to work with and really cares about his customers. Whatever this thread is about, don't forget that Andrew/AR Design is not only known on the forum for extremely high quality downpipes but unmatched customer service.

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I just want to say that everyone on this board that has bought from AR Design will boldly say that Andrew is incredibly easy to work with and really cares about his customers. Whatever this thread is about, don't forget that Andrew/AR Design is not only known on the forum for extremely high quality downpipes but unmatched customer service.

even if all dp's came with a lifetime guarantee, who wants to roll the dice and hate to sit 2-3hrs under their car swapping out their warranteed failed dp's.

i am installing vk dp's for a guy tommorrow, so i have no opinion bad or good until i have them in my hand and see the fitment.

i have installed 6-8 sets of ar dps and never had a singe problem, and they even look perfect compared to some other dp's i have installed.