[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by 335D Alpha Pappa

...
I drive enough miles so that the urea is never in the tank longer than 4 months.

I've cut back my driving a bit - probably only 15K/year rather than 18K. I meant to add "no worry about hot weather affecting the DEF, the car had snow on it Monday morning..."

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The fault analysis for 4D16/DeNOx Efficiency includes checking the DEF injector *BEFORE* moving to the NOx sensors. Why do you assume it wasn't checked?

There are other codes for DEF fluid being bad; as you know that is tested for by the DDE after every Regen of the DPF.

Perhaps I should not assume, you are right. I just do not trust dealers very much. And from the collective experience here it is such a hit and miss with the dealer's ability to diagnose and fix faults properly. People seem to always have to bring SIBs to dealer's attention in order for some work be done in a proper way. As such, if your paperwork shows that they have "checked" your metering valve, I would ask what exactly they had done and tested. If the dealer is suggesting SCR replacement as a next step and on your dime, I would be very suspicious after spending money on NOx sensors for the fault to return. Doesn't WA state fall under the CA emissions rules where you get 7 years on the emission related equipment anyway?

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by larrysing

They did the tank flush and refill first, as they were of the the belief that the urea was just EMPTY, when the error clearly stated "incorrect fluid."

You make a valid point about "both" NOx sensors going out at the same time. I'm going to call my SA and ask him about that today. Seems very odd...

Have you guys seen all the historical pictures of crystallized urea around the urea metering valve and inside the DPF inlet. I am fairly certain that this is to be checked first.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Yozh

... Doesn't WA state fall under the CA emissions rules where you get 7 years on the emission related equipment anyway?

7/70K. Mine is almost 107K. I had the SCR mixer and SCR metering valve (injector) replaced under that around 62K, and again at 72K had the mixer replaced (part warranty.)

Because I run 18K/year (or at least did), I made a measured decision not to buy an extended warranty, as it would have essentially cost me $2500+ for only 1-2 years of coverage beyond the 7/70K CA emissions warranty. I won that bet, but now that I'm over 100K... so I can say that the $2500+ I saved is now doing this work.

[Yozh]

I see. Sounds like you had a good plan. I am wondering though what was wrong with a mixer if I may ask.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Yozh

I see. Sounds like you had a good plan. I am wondering though what was wrong with a mixer if I may ask.

I don't really know what was wrong with it. My guess is it was eroded - the proximate cause was a 4D16 SES, just like now. The first replacement was covered by the 7/70K CA warranty, then the 2nd time they discovered the tech had installed it backwards. I actually had it in 4 times in the 58K-74K range for 4D16; took them 3 times to come up with the mixer (they replace the metering valve the first time.)

It's obvious to me the system is fragile. I've been sort of expecting to have to replace the more expensive components for the last 3 years or so, as all the cheap stuff has been replaced.

NOx sensors are unfortunately, an evolving product. There were some problems with the first ones for the F3x 328d - quite a few very early failures (anecdotal from monitoring forums). Although some heavy-duty ones appear to be able to go 300K miles, many seem to fail much sooner. I wonder if there are failures on the truck/jeep/chevy forums?

[larrysing]

I asked them about "both sensors going out at once" and they said they typically replace both sensors and the metering module at the same time because they have seen on occasion when they replace only one, then within the two years of warranty, the other one likely fails. So they do them both to help the customer prevent another instance of bringing it in for the same repair twice in a 24-month span.

Not sure how true that is or if it he was just blowing smoke up me arse. But if replacing them both does buy me two full years without a similar repair, then I am OK with that.

Total out the door was $2655. Still sick about it.

Oh well, I guess after about 36 years of driving pretty dang reliable cars and not paying out very much AT ALL for repairs, maybe Karma finally caught up to me.

[Twilight1]

Originally Posted by Mark M

Keep in mind.....if you do go ABC delete.....it WILL smell like an old school diesel.

Screw that!

[Persian Whisperjet]

OK the smell is not great in fact I'd say it is a lot like my old Benz 300D, but the smoke and noise and whatnot are way less, not even in the same galaxy.

[Tomnavigator]

I have a possible solution to the service engine soon (SES) lights that has worked for me. I have had several ses lights on my 2010 335D related to the DEF system. I have had the level sensor failure SES, the incorrect DEF fluid SES and a inefficient DEF efficiency message SES. I bought a BMW OBD reset tool on ebay for around $35. I just reset the error codes and drive on. I recommend everyone to have one of these reset tools in your trunk. I don't worry about SES lights when I drive far from home.

I will continue to reset my SES until someone offers an inexpensive DEF delete reprogram for the DDE. I found that most of these error codes do not recur on my car when I reset them. At least, not for a few weeks or months.

[larrysing]

Originally Posted by Tomnavigator

I have a possible solution to the service engine soon (SES) lights that has worked for me. I have had several ses lights on my 2010 335D related to the DEF system. I have had the level sensor failure SES, the incorrect DEF fluid SES and a inefficient DEF efficiency message SES. I bought a BMW OBD reset tool on ebay for around $35. I just reset the error codes and drive on. I recommend everyone to have one of these reset tools in your trunk. I don't worry about SES lights when I drive far from home.

I will continue to reset my SES until someone offers an inexpensive DEF delete reprogram for the DDE. I found that most of these error codes do not recur on my car when I reset them. At least, not for a few weeks or months.

I can reset my SES lights also, and have done so on both of my 335d cars.

But for THIS problem, that would not work. The sensor failed and reported incorrectly that there was incorrect DEF in the vehicle - which there was NOT. But this triggers a "No Start in 200 miles" error that cannot be reset by the tools we use for that sort of thing. Once I went over the 200 miles the car indeed would not start and had to be towed to the stealership.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

I just had both my NOx sensors replaced; $1800 after BMWCCA discount. Unfortunately the SES has come on again - I'm about ready to go down to see what it is. My guess is that it's the SCR catalyst (that's the NEXT thing they replace after the sensors.)

Well, they kept it for a couple days, checked with BMWNA, etc. Eventually, they decided to "fix what was broken": THEY REPLACED THE THERMOSTAT, which was maxing out at around 70C (158F) at idle, and less while running on the road/moving.

We'll see... it was quite pricey, FYI.

[remlemasi]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Well, they kept it for a couple days, checked with BMWNA, etc. Eventually, they decided to "fix what was broken": THEY REPLACED THE THERMOSTAT, which was maxing out at around 70C (158F) at idle, and less while running on the road/moving.

We'll see... it was quite pricey, FYI.

Thermostat replacement was pricey??? How much exactly?

[bimmerup-sonny]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

soory to hear your plight to avoid this ISSUE again best get rid of everything at a tune of $2k approximately and TRUST ME you wont have any more issue follow the steps most of us have gone thru and you will say goodbye to your woes

Hi,
I've read and heard about removing all THESE stuff..
But would our cars be able to pass smog test to register our cars, although they don't test anything, just open up the hood and look and see if there are any modifications. Does Puerto Rico have the same smog check requirements as the 48 contiguous US states?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by remlemasi

Thermostat replacement was pricey??? How much exactly?

The thermostat is only $113 (coolant another $25). But the labor was way high - hard to tell what was diagnosis and what was installation, but the SA said it's a 5 hour job to replace it - down and under and hard to access.

[BB_cuda]

Paid $52.72 from husker and it took me about 1-1.25 hour. I had a big advantage though. No EGR cooler was in my way. I did have to remove the cooler bypass water line though. My time quoted didn't take into account putting car up on jack stands and removing the lower engine cover. I was doing several maintenance items. After replacing coolant, I started car and let it run for 30-40 minutes with reservoir cap off letting the system self bleed air back into reservoir. Before change, coolant ran around 77°C. After change, 84C cruising and no warmer than 86C if in stop and go traffic.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

bimmerup-sonny Puerto Rico has smog test ala 48 contiguous states but you can buy yourself away w the inspection and NO the car cannot /will not pass ANY smog inspection once you do the Alpha Soup.

[rogerdiaz]

Can someone break it down simple relationship between NOX sensor and Active tank ses errors. Indy wants $4600.51 USD. I have decided to sell the car.

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by rogerdiaz

Can someone break it down simple relationship between NOX sensor and Active tank ses errors. Indy wants $4600.51 USD. I have decided to sell the car.

My understanding is that the sensor is a part of the tank, so if the sensor fails, the whole tank has to be replaced. Parts and labor, $4600 sounds about right. As said earlier in this thread, you could spend half of that on a delete and tune and never have the issue again.

EDIT: AND YOU'RE RIGHT BY BIMMER PERFORMANCE CENTER. Even better. If you have an extra car to drive a few days while yours becomes illiterate, it might be worth it.

[BB_cuda]

BPC doesn't wrench on diesels anymore. Mail in tunes us all that they do with diesels now. At least that's what's in writing in that thread.

I thought there was that company that sells after market tank for what was it $500. Not sure if that's with you sending in your's as a core or what.

[Torqu3]

I meant instead of having to mail in the tune, he could drive up to them(in a different car obvioulsy), give them them the DDE, have it tuned, and come pick it up later on in the day. Much less of a delay than mailing in. I assume that's alright with BPC. I know that they don't wrench on diesels anymore, except for general maintenance.

[Nadir Point]

Maybe BPC will feel a little "trickle-down" effect from the election and start actual "work" again...