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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Solid Subframe Bushings: HATE them!



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      11-18-2022, 01:01 AM   #1
whyzee125
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Solid Subframe Bushings: HATE them!

I'm pretty dang bummed with this mod. I couldn't find even one negative review regarding either the performance or NVH.

I had BimmerWorld solid aluminum subframe bushings installed about a month ago and I officially decided today I'm going back to stock (or something else)--it's simply obnoxious.

I had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+ on the car at the time which were always a little noisy but it became unbearable after the bushings. I switched back to Conti DWS, which are usually VERY quiet, and while it's definitely quieter, it's still completely obnoxious. Just drove 6 hours today and even though the noise isn't insanely loud, no amount of radio will drown it out. It just resonates through the whole chassis now. How are people saying there's no NVH increase? Is it because most go with Turner rather than Bimmerworld?

The shop who installed them knows their stuff and installed them correctly. I've been under the car many times trying to figure out if something's wrong. Interestingly, they also warned me not to go with solid aluminum but everyone on here seemed to say there's no downsides. I'm really kicking myself for spending $1,500 on these especially now that I need to spend another $1,500 to go back. Anyone have any recommendations on what to do next, aside from pay the money to go back to stock or m3?

Sorry for the rant, I'm just mad at myself LOL! I'll go back to loving my car in no time but dang I feel like an idiot for doing this mod haha
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      11-18-2022, 03:53 AM   #2
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I would say there was something wrong with your car that got magnified or something happened during install. whats the noise? its probably the best mods due to how the spring sit between the subframe and body of the car.
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      11-18-2022, 07:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i54n View Post
I would say there was something wrong with your car that got magnified or something happened during install. whats the noise? its probably the best mods due to how the spring sit between the subframe and body of the car.
It's definitely tire/road noise that's being super amplified. It's possible, I'd love to find an easier solution than going back to stock. So far it's the worst mod I've ever done, I genuinely see very little improvement and a ton of NVH.
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      11-19-2022, 01:44 PM   #4
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Thanks for sharing. It was hard to believe there would be no NVH change with solid metal bushings, otherwise why would BMW use rubber? And before someone says it, yes, newer generations have solid mounted subframes, but they have a different chassis and can tune for NVH in other ways.

Maybe solid poly would be more forgiving? Otherwise the stock rubber bushings with poly inserts are a decent compromise on a street car.

https://whitelineperformance.com/pro...17-bushing-kit
https://whitelineperformance.com/pro...31709306683434
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      11-19-2022, 02:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Fieri View Post
Thanks for sharing. It was hard to believe there would be no NVH change with solid metal bushings, otherwise why would BMW use rubber? And before someone says it, yes, newer generations have solid mounted subframes, but they have a different chassis and can tune for NVH in other ways.

Maybe solid poly would be more forgiving? Otherwise the stock rubber bushings with poly inserts are a decent compromise on a street car.

https://whitelineperformance.com/pro...17-bushing-kit
https://whitelineperformance.com/pro...31709306683434
Any reviews and/or install videos on either of those? It looks like the second link doesn't require removal of the old ones? Is that correct, and is it a good fix for crusty old ones??? I'm at this stage on my car, and wondering about options!
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      11-19-2022, 05:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StradaRedlands View Post
Any reviews and/or install videos on either of those? It looks like the second link doesn't require removal of the old ones? Is that correct, and is it a good fix for crusty old ones??? I'm at this stage on my car, and wondering about options!
Yes, the inserts fit into the factory bushings so you only have to lower the subframe a few inches. The solid poly bushings require the old bushings be pressed out, but install without any additional tools. Solid metal bushings require a tool to press in afaik.
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      11-19-2022, 05:48 PM   #7
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Thanks for sharing.
I wonder how the m3 ones rate compared to the originals, even those must cause the slightest increase in NVH
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      11-19-2022, 05:54 PM   #8
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Interesting counter opinion for sure, I think it's always good to remember that suspension feel and NVH are very subjective. I had Fortune Auto 500 coilovers on my e39 and absolutely hated how they were over damped at low speed despite everyone saying "literally no downsides compared to stock suspension".

As Guy said, it's physically impossible to replace a rubber bushing with something stiffer and not expect ANY increase in NVH. If someone is going down the route of solid bushings, chances are they have a very high tolerance to NVH which is why reviews should always be taken with a grain of salt. I do think Delrin is likely to be the best option here, softer than aluminum but without the squeak of Poly. For now though the Whiteline inserts I have are holding me over.

It also might be a case that you are particularly sensitive to road noise because I have PSS's with some solid wear on them and they don't seem any louder than the Conti DWS06's they replaced. It's all very subjective especially when talking about maybe a 20-30% difference in noise levels.
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      11-19-2022, 07:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Fieri View Post
Yes, the inserts fit into the factory bushings so you only have to lower the subframe a few inches. The solid poly bushings require the old bushings be pressed out, but install without any additional tools. Solid metal bushings require a tool to press in afaik.
Very intriuged... I've been looking at Powerflex and working up the courage to do them, but this might be a nice inbetween!
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      11-20-2022, 01:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnin'Rich View Post
Thanks for sharing.
I wonder how the m3 ones rate compared to the originals, even those must cause the slightest increase in NVH
There is an acceptable increase for the performance gained. Likely not worth the cost and effort compared to poly inserts imo.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=12
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      11-20-2022, 03:33 AM   #11
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When I went from stock to M3, suddenly I could hear my rear diff whine and a bunch of other small clunks from the back end. Haven't been able to lose one of those noises, despite replacing every bushing in the rear suspension.

Even so, I'd still recommend M3 over stock. And I'd sooner fit M3 than stock + inserts.

I never quite believed all the people saying "literally zero nvh increase" with solid or delrin; of course it couldn't be true. Glad I went with M3, which I think is the best compromise especially when you consider the money.
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      11-20-2022, 09:05 AM   #12
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I fitted these. Tightened up the rear end nicely but with NO NVH issues (probably because the insert removes the slop, but the stock bushings ensure no NVH).

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      11-20-2022, 07:38 PM   #13
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Thanks for the replies guys!

Wish I'd made a thread about these before getting them. I honestly couldn't find eve one review who said they were not happy with them but they are truly unbearable. I don't think it's even a 20-30% increase, I think it's easily 3 times as loud in the road noise department. No amount of radio can drown out the road noise. You can hear the radio fine, but the noise is always there. It's also not diff whine as changing tires completely changed the pitch and tone of the sound but it's very much still there.

I'm going back to stock, I honestly don't know why I got these. I guess all the reviews of talking about how the car is totally transformed really made me want to try, but my car was fine with the stock bushings even at close to 500whp.
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      11-21-2022, 03:33 AM   #14
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Appreciate the review I was debating going 95A or derlin/solid. I think I'll stick with 95A for now. I have 80A in my E30 and it was fine.
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      11-21-2022, 10:48 AM   #15
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I can understand doing solid aluminum for exclusive track use, but i can't see how this is beneficial for a daily driver.

Of course there will be vibrations and noise.

What's wrong with a fresh stock bushing setup? On a daily driver, absolutely nothing.

Last edited by Wolf 335; 11-21-2022 at 12:54 PM..
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      11-21-2022, 11:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf 335 View Post
I can understand doign solid aluminum for exclusive track use, but i can't see how this is beneficial for a daily driver.

Of course there will be vibrations and noise.

What's wrong with a fresh stock bushing setup? On a daily driver, absolutely nothing.
Agreed, that's the route I'll be going. I just can't believe so many people, some of whom seem very knowledgeable on this forum, claim there is zero NVH. It's absolutely unbearable for very little added benefit.
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      11-21-2022, 03:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyzee125 View Post
Agreed, that's the route I'll be going. I just can't believe so many people, some of whom seem very knowledgeable on this forum, claim there is zero NVH. It's absolutely unbearable for very little added benefit.
Confirmation bias. Everyone wants to think (myself included) that they spent time and money on the right thing. Not many have calibrated ears and butts to actually evaluate the changes.
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      11-28-2022, 05:25 PM   #18
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I did have a question in this vein - I have a 335is and the back end feels "Squirmy" under acceleration - is that down to the subframe bushings, or would it more be due to worn suspension bushings and joints? I need to renew my suspension and I'm trying to research all of the factors and parts that might contribute to better handling, overall. Any advice would be much appreciated!
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      11-28-2022, 05:38 PM   #19
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Replace it all. I'd guess that squirm would mainly be due to the subframe bushings. Mine tramlined a bit until I did the rsfb.
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      12-12-2022, 02:40 PM   #20
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But... hardcore race mods! I've seen some of the same posts about "no noticeable NVH" and figured it was a lie. It's just a b**ch to install so people promote taking it to the limit. The best option is M3 or solid poly bushings but I only found that out from YouTube research. Not in the forums.
You could throw in some poly diff mount bushings and realllly increase the noise. hahaha
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      12-12-2022, 04:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaronbwall View Post
But... hardcore race mods! I've seen some of the same posts about "no noticeable NVH" and figured it was a lie. It's just a b**ch to install so people promote taking it to the limit. The best option is M3 or solid poly bushings but I only found that out from YouTube research. Not in the forums.
You could throw in some poly diff mount bushings and realllly increase the noise. hahaha
Lol wish I had that much descernment before doing it. Only 3 people have ridden in the car since the install and two of them are not car people whatsoever. All 3 mentioned the obnoxious noise level without me saying a word. I'm going back to stock or M3 -_-
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      12-15-2022, 10:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whyzee125 View Post
Lol wish I had that much descernment before doing it. Only 3 people have ridden in the car since the install and two of them are not car people whatsoever. All 3 mentioned the obnoxious noise level without me saying a word. I'm going back to stock or M3 -_-
Good idea man. If you took them out before the install should be easier. Just based on my experience with the e90's. I'm planning to refresh my suspension and at the same time install the m3 bushings. Just need a lift so I can install the B8 kit on my own time. Too much $$$ to hire a shop for everything. I'd have a different mindset if this car was worth M3 money but it's not and never will be.
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