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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Supercharger stuff (MILVs+AA+BPC)



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      12-07-2020, 12:04 AM   #1189
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Not loud enough ;/
VAC sells dressed up heads ... 👀
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      12-07-2020, 09:16 AM   #1190
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Not sure I will ever break it, since I got mine setup for daily and never track it but with new tires I would not be surprised if we get it back up to 380whp+. However, can't wait to see you guys go all out! Must say the headers are so satisfying w the new sound, another thing I should have done a long time ago, but waited until recently and no emission in WA any longer.
Out of curiosity how loud is the supercharger whine?

You guys have to be able to hit 400whp, it is only a matter of time. Without cams(which as far as I know are not available) it may take a worked head and more revs. But you guys will get there.
Definetely more SC sound now with new pulley, about 30% more I say +/-, and in a good way, you hear the whine more at idle/low speed as well. This is our most practical car, so I got to keep it reasonable for road trips etc, but although plenty now I would not mind seeing high 3's since shop had it up there assuming well drivable/safe on engine... which I obviously trust shop on. We will see...
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      12-07-2020, 02:50 PM   #1191
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Not loud enough ;/
VAC sells dressed up heads ... ��
at 4k

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...ead-p1819.aspx

But the performance valve springs etc. should mean you can rev it out more. Anyone know what the DME rev limit is? On the N54 it is 8150 but limited to 7200 via software from the factory.

Boost PSI should go down with a worked head as boost is a measure of restriction.

A built head and another 1k rpms would get you there I would think. From looking at:


The HP keeps rising with the RPMs until the dyno operator lets off. 7500 would make 400 8k maybe 425? Might not even need a built head and just upgraded springs to get the rev limit increase.

Last edited by Torgus; 12-07-2020 at 03:10 PM..
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      12-07-2020, 03:37 PM   #1192
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Would a intercooled setup on the same PSI not get to the 400 wheel territory? I know there’s parasitic loss with an Intercooler, but I think that it can be avoided with a even smaller pulley.
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      12-07-2020, 04:33 PM   #1193
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Would a intercooled setup on the same PSI not get to the 400 wheel territory? I know there’s parasitic loss with an Intercooler, but I think that it can be avoided with a even smaller pulley.
The meth should lower the AITs plenty and add enough octane/AKI that an IC should not be needed I believe. The extra work to add an IC I don't think it is worth it. It introduces a number of potential boost leak points and there might be a tiny bit of lag adding numerous feet of charge piping. An air/water would be doable but way too complicated. Meth works great and you can always spray more of it for more fueling.

If the IC was simple to install I would say run both an IC and meth. That is what many people do on FI platforms. You could also switch to 100% meth then, if you wanted, because you don't care about the water and it's effect. Granted you could probably do that now and be fine.
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      12-07-2020, 04:49 PM   #1194
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The meth should lower the AITs plenty and add enough octane/AKI that an IC should not be needed I believe. The extra work to add an IC I don't think it is worth it. It introduces a number of potential boost leak points and there might be a tiny bit of lag adding numerous feet of charge piping. An air/water would be doable but way too complicated. Meth works great and you can always spray more of it for more fueling.

If the IC was simple to install I would say run both an IC and meth. That is what many people do on FI platforms. You could also switch to 100% meth then, if you wanted, because you don't care about the water and it's effect. Granted you could probably do that now and be fine.

The only reason I’m leaning towards this option is that I still have my intercooler from my turbo setup, and it wouldn’t take much to reroute the piping. I do agree though, it’s a lot of plumbing, but might be incredibly beneficial to run the intercooler and meth. Just an idea anyway, Ess doesn’t use the Vortec V3 anymore. Apparently their G1 blower is 20 percent more efficient, I’m curious about what kind of results I’ll have throwing all this together.
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      12-07-2020, 04:54 PM   #1195
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Would a intercooled setup on the same PSI not get to the 400 wheel territory? I know there’s parasitic loss with an Intercooler, but I think that it can be avoided with a even smaller pulley.
W my setup, it was the most efficient power shop could get out of it, hence they recommended Meth, and w intercooler I do less power while keeping it healthy running. Of course we could get 4 or even 500 hp out of it, but I had this car for a long time and want to see 250-300k so it's about balance... and we all know that with the increase in Power comes additional wear hence I have taken approach we did, and perhaps some refinement in near future but it's very good at this 350-385 whp range pending setup/tune.
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      12-07-2020, 09:32 PM   #1196
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W my setup, it was the most efficient power shop could get out of it, hence they recommended Meth, and w intercooler I do less power while keeping it healthy running. Of course we could get 4 or even 500 hp out of it, but I had this car for a long time and want to see 250-300k so it's about balance... and we all know that with the increase in Power comes additional wear hence I have taken approach we did, and perhaps some refinement in near future but it's very good at this 350-385 whp range pending setup/tune.
If I can recall, you originally stated that the shop had intentions of installing your charger with a intercooler, right? Speaking from experience, installing one was awful, I had to cut out so much of my lower rad support and bumper to make it fit., it sucked. I could only imagine what it would cost on a normal shop rate, so I totally understand the choice of going with meth over an intercooler. But, from a performance perspective I'm really curious what I could do (Safely) with a intercooled set up and the same pulley you've chosen.
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      12-08-2020, 01:18 AM   #1197
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Originally Posted by Seattlesquash View Post
W my setup, it was the most efficient power shop could get out of it, hence they recommended Meth, and w intercooler I do less power while keeping it healthy running. Of course we could get 4 or even 500 hp out of it, but I had this car for a long time and want to see 250-300k so it's about balance... and we all know that with the increase in Power comes additional wear hence I have taken approach we did, and perhaps some refinement in near future but it's very good at this 350-385 whp range pending setup/tune.
If I can recall, you originally stated that the shop had intentions of installing your charger with a intercooler, right? Speaking from experience, installing one was awful, I had to cut out so much of my lower rad support and bumper to make it fit., it sucked. I could only imagine what it would cost on a normal shop rate, so I totally understand the choice of going with meth over an intercooler. But, from a performance perspective I'm really curious what I could do (Safely) with a intercooled set up and the same pulley you've chosen.
You are correct, we started on that approach and then I was advised not to for reasons you mention. According to shop it is difficult to achieve IT's as low as I currently have, plus the octane boost so they said for a custom intercooler would cost more and yield less. However, love the idea of having both brother! was skeptic on meth first, not knowing much about it, but w this setup with gauge and low fluid warning etc... I really like it and only fill up every 3-4 tanks fuel and that w 0.75 gallon tank do not bad!
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      12-08-2020, 09:53 AM   #1198
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Has anyone done an FMIC on the SC N52? It's got to be such a PITA getting the charge piping down to the IC and then back up to the IM. IC cores are cheap.

That being said if you are not getting any knock currently adding a FMIC is not going to change anything(really). As you start to spin the SC out of it's efficiency islands it will produce more hot air and the meth may not be enough and you would benefit from a FMIC dropping the AITs before the meth gets injected.
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      12-08-2020, 11:55 AM   #1199
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Has anyone done an FMIC on the SC N52? It's got to be such a PITA getting the charge piping down to the IC and then back up to the IM. IC cores are cheap.

That being said if you are not getting any knock currently adding a FMIC is not going to change anything(really). As you start to spin the SC out of it's efficiency islands it will produce more hot air and the meth may not be enough and you would benefit from a FMIC dropping the AITs before the meth gets injected.
I think I can run the return line from the passenger side of the intercooler to the throttle body just below the crank pulley, slightly above the belly pan. I think anyway..

There was a fella on here who’s contributed a few posts on here, Jonwilli.
He had a 130 with a rotex blower, intercooled set up. Couldn’t get the tuning figured out though, unfortunately.
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      12-08-2020, 03:38 PM   #1200
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Local Indy mentioned the idea of a water to air.... but that sounds annoying. The lag from adding the IC plumbing, would be a new issue... +1 on the potential boost leaks. I think Marty was trying to mock something up (or it could've been boca), to mimic a csl type intake manifold. Tbh I'd just keep it safe and do what is possible then just enjoy. I feel like you'd have to push to the blowers capacity to compensate for the lag, no?
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      12-08-2020, 04:52 PM   #1201
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Local Indy mentioned the idea of a water to air.... but that sounds annoying. The lag from adding the IC plumbing, would be a new issue... +1 on the potential boost leaks. I think Marty was trying to mock something up (or it could've been boca), to mimic a csl type intake manifold. Tbh I'd just keep it safe and do what is possible then just enjoy. I feel like you'd have to push to the blowers capacity to compensate for the lag, no?
You can do that, but you will likely not get IT as low as you want to tune as far as you got a Meth. Run a legit w-A setup on Audi and IT no near the one of BMW so adding Meth to it this winter.
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      12-08-2020, 07:09 PM   #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir View Post
Local Indy mentioned the idea of a water to air.... but that sounds annoying. The lag from adding the IC plumbing, would be a new issue... +1 on the potential boost leaks. I think Marty was trying to mock something up (or it could've been boca), to mimic a csl type intake manifold. Tbh I'd just keep it safe and do what is possible then just enjoy. I feel like you'd have to push to the blowers capacity to compensate for the lag, no?
f w2a unless the car came with it stock. You would need at a minimum a complete W2A system with pump and front radiator etc. I know they make the prefabbed cylinder W2A ICs but it will really not fit well that I can see. You would want an intake manifold with the W2A heat exchanger built in. All the extra lines, work, etc just to get basically the same benefits as an A2A IC.

Meth is cheap.

Before you drop 4k on a w2a system with custom intake manifold, if not more expensive, build the head or move to new a engine/platform.
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      12-08-2020, 07:20 PM   #1203
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Trust, I'm totally with your line of thinking Torgus

I should be okay given the methanol + e85 — won't be pushing anything greater than Seattle in terms of power. Even with the same pulley, I may or may not net more given my LWFW, MILVs, and exhaust setup
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      12-09-2020, 02:21 AM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddvegas View Post
There was a fella on here who’s contributed a few posts on here, Jonwilli.
He had a 130 with a rotex blower, intercooled set up. Couldn’t get the tuning figured out though, unfortunately.
That's me! I think the issue with the ESS kit is the blower is physically larger and from what I can see the orientation of the inlet and out flow from the turbine is different.

With the Rotrex kit I ran the pipework down past the arch liner on the passenger side (driver side for you guys), to the FMIC, back just on top of the undertray and then back up and under the blower to the throttle body. It used pre bent silicone pipes initially from the blower and then alu for most of the ducting.

I am still surprised no one running the higher boost with the ESS kit isn't getting flutter without a BOV? I was getting it with the Rotrex kit at fairly low boost. I installed a Turbosmart BOV controller once the boost increased.
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      12-09-2020, 05:49 PM   #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddvegas View Post
There was a fella on here who’s contributed a few posts on here, Jonwilli.
He had a 130 with a rotex blower, intercooled set up. Couldn’t get the tuning figured out though, unfortunately.
That's me! I think the issue with the ESS kit is the blower is physically larger and from what I can see the orientation of the inlet and out flow from the turbine is different.

With the Rotrex kit I ran the pipework down past the arch liner on the passenger side (driver side for you guys), to the FMIC, back just on top of the undertray and then back up and under the blower to the throttle body. It used pre bent silicone pipes initially from the blower and then alu for most of the ducting.

I am still surprised no one running the higher boost with the ESS kit isn't getting flutter without a BOV? I was getting it with the Rotrex kit at fairly low boost. I installed a Turbosmart BOV controller once the boost increased.
Thats a project but sounds cool, what's low boost? I run 10-11 approximately and not comfortable pushing too much more on a daily and the internals we have. What was your issue with tuning btw?
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      12-15-2020, 02:07 AM   #1206
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Do any of y'all have the KN part number handy? It seems like all the images in the thread load on the app except the one I need. Fml. Gonna get my hands on a halogen fixture this week. Gonna try my hand at being a dummy again.
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      12-15-2020, 02:26 AM   #1207
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Nvm. Kubricks has been the GOAT since '17. Thanks for posting this!
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      12-15-2020, 03:32 AM   #1208
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Nvm. Kubricks has been the GOAT since '17. Thanks for posting this!
Yep, amazon sells that one too, if you are looking.
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      12-16-2020, 09:38 PM   #1209
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Do any of y'all have the KN part number handy? It seems like all the images in the thread load on the app except the one I need. Fml. Gonna get my hands on a halogen fixture this week. Gonna try my hand at being a dummy again.
Are you going to do one of those headlight intakes?!

You wildin’
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      12-16-2020, 10:28 PM   #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir View Post
Do any of y'all have the KN part number handy? It seems like all the images in the thread load on the app except the one I need. Fml. Gonna get my hands on a halogen fixture this week. Gonna try my hand at being a dummy again.
Are you going to do one of those headlight intakes?!

You wildin’
Yeah :,) I just want to not be scraping the dog piss out of my fender liner anymore!
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