[esi183]

Hi guys,

I'm a new poster to these fantastic forums which have helped me with countless issues and DIYs over the years. I was wondering if anyone could help me out by doing a simple check on their car.

Recently, I had the lower steering shaft replaced as it was the cause of my steering popping/creaking when turning the wheel while stationary. RealOEM reference below:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_1516

Before this, when I would physically grab the steering shaft from under the bonnet and give it a firm push/pull up and down, there would be movement at the top joint, which joins it to the steering column. So I thought this was an even better reason to replace the shaft as clearly the top U-joint had play. However, after the repair, while the popping/creaking has gone, the movement persists, and seems to be coming from the steering column itself, i.e. above the shaft.

I was therefore wondering if anyone could grab the equivalent part on their car, try and move it up/down, and see if the movement at the top is normal? (my garage suggested it is) My understanding is, unless you have a 335, it is relatively easy to access this from the enigne bay (but on my 320i it's right next to the exhaust, so I have to do it with the engine cool) :

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=256125&page=2


As a bit of background, I've had a host of suspension work done to the front of my car over the last few months, as a few parts needed renewing and my mileage was getting on a bit.

I also hoped they would fix a years-old steering wander/excessive tramlining issue at highway speeds, which make it difficult to keep the car in a straight line without constant corrections. Unfortunately they haven't.

The work included:
Front: New springs, shocks, tie-rods, M3 control arms, anti-roll bar links+bushes
(Rear: New shocks, control arms, trailing arm bushes and ball joints)

After all of these works (including the steering shaft) I had new front tyres and a 4-wheel alignment. All my tyres are non-RFT Goodyear Eagle F1 Assym3.

As nothing really remains (aside a very expensive steering rack), I'm wondering whether there's any play in the steering column which shouldn't be there and could cause these issues, and would therefore be most grateful for your help.

Many thanks

[PhaseP]

Mine has a slack at the same spot for a long time now. It is not the steering column, it is the connection of the u joint to the column. It has a pinch bolt, this is blue lock tight secured. It doesn't hold tight especially if it was removed and reassembled. It holds tight for a few weeks but then loosens. Once the bolt is loose it allows the u joint move up and down a few mms. This is noticeable while driving only when moving parking speeds and steering , especially on bumpy pavement. I fixed it once by tightening that pinch bolt with fresh blue lock tite but it came back after a while. Planning add some shims around the bolt to take up the slack and tighten again but never yet got to it yet. It is worse at hot days since the slack gets widened by heat expansion.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by esi183

Hi guys,

I'm a new poster to these fantastic forums which have helped me with countless issues and DIYs over the years. I was wondering if anyone could help me out by doing a simple check on their car.

Recently, I had the lower steering shaft replaced as it was the cause of my steering popping/creaking when turning the wheel while stationary. RealOEM reference below:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_1516

Before this, when I would physically grab the steering shaft from under the bonnet and give it a firm push/pull up and down, there would be movement at the top joint, which joins it to the steering column. So I thought this was an even better reason to replace the shaft as clearly the top U-joint had play. However, after the repair, while the popping/creaking has gone, the movement persists, and seems to be coming from the steering column itself, i.e. above the shaft.

I was therefore wondering if anyone could grab the equivalent part on their car, try and move it up/down, and see if the movement at the top is normal? (my garage suggested it is) My understanding is, unless you have a 335, it is relatively easy to access this from the enigne bay (but on my 320i it's right next to the exhaust, so I have to do it with the engine cool) :

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=256125&page=2


As a bit of background, I've had a host of suspension work done to the front of my car over the last few months, as a few parts needed renewing and my mileage was getting on a bit.

I also hoped they would fix a years-old steering wander/excessive tramlining issue at highway speeds, which make it difficult to keep the car in a straight line without constant corrections. Unfortunately they haven't.

The work included:
Front: New springs, shocks, tie-rods, M3 control arms, anti-roll bar links+bushes
(Rear: New shocks, control arms, trailing arm bushes and ball joints)

After all of these works (including the steering shaft) I had new front tyres and a 4-wheel alignment. All my tyres are non-RFT Goodyear Eagle F1 Assym3.

As nothing really remains (aside a very expensive steering rack), I'm wondering whether there's any play in the steering column which shouldn't be there and could cause these issues, and would therefore be most grateful for your help.

Many thanks

These two threads revitalized the steering on my 330i.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256125
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...-heavy-t55956/

On N52 vehicles, you can tighten the bolts listed in these threads from under the hood.
Both are easily visible as the is no charge pipe blocking view like on the N54.

The rack preload adjustment in thread 2 worked wonders for my 128k mile rack.
A little adjustment goes a long way. Too much, though, and the steering wheel will have trouble returning to center and you will introduce excess wear in the rack.

Those should take care of the front end wandering/jerking when hitting bumps.

[esi183]

Originally Posted by thakid22

These two threads revitalized the steering on my 330i.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256125
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...-heavy-t55956/

On N52 vehicles, you can tighten the bolts listed in these threads from under the hood.
Both are easily visible as the is no charge pipe blocking view like on the N54.

The rack preload adjustment in thread 2 worked wonders for my 128k mile rack.
A little adjustment goes a long way. Too much, though, and the steering wheel will have trouble returning to center and you will introduce excess wear in the rack.

Those should take care of the front end wandering/jerking when hitting bumps.

Thanks! So my steering shaft + pinch bolts are new, but I'll try tightening the top one again.

Thakid22, I've read your advice on these forums. Do you know if the preload adjustment procedure is the same for electric steering (EPS)? Is this what your car had?Many thanks .

[esi183]

Update: I had a good look at the top steering shaft U-joint, and it's definitely the steering column output that has up/down play. I can move it with my hand further up than the steering shaft, so if anyone can try and replicate in their car I'd be very grateful.

And on my EPS box, the nut which I think is the preload adjustment is bigger than my largest hex socket (which is 21mm), so I will try and get a bigger one.


Thank you guys.

[PhaseP]

From what I remember when I had taken the steering column and lower shaft out to inspect, the output of the steering column telescopes in and out, but without any lateral play. This telescoping ability is there so that the lower shaft u joint can be installed or removed while the steering shaft is in place. Otherwise one wouldn't be able to replace lower shaft without at least loosening the steering column.
Once the lower shaft is in place and it's u joint pinch bolts are all tight, both at column and rack sides, even this telescoping movement should not happen. Just in case it can be misunderstood I am not talking about telescoping of the steering wheel, that is different.

[esi183]

Thanks for your input PhaseP. The movement I can elicit is up/down, not lateral and not in/out. I'll post a video tomorrow morning as well. Instinctively I feel the movement shouldn't be there. Curiously, I thought I had a great improvement in straight-line stability on the motorway for the first 200miles after the shaft was installed, and the car felt far less nervous. But I'm not sure if that's just placebo .

[esi183]

On a different note, could my problems be related to the brakes or top strut mounts at all? These are the only components which haven't been replaced (aside the rack and steering knuckles). My mechanic did tell me the top mounts looked Ok though when he did the springs/shocks.

And I'm really keen to tighten the rack preload, but need to make sure the procedure is the same on my electric rack. It's got a nut at the same place as the hydraulic racks, but it's bigger than the 18mm which was suggested on other posts (and indeed larger than 21mm).

Thanks again

[Reinier91]

Hello,

I having the same issue as you, i think.
Front end tramlining and when i hit speedbump ore uneven road i feel the steeringwheel move in my hands.

Also with parking at slow speeds i can feel somesort of click/play in the steeringwheel at the 10 and 2 o,clock positions.

I have new front shocks, upper mounts(bearings), controllearm bushings, swaybar bushings and links, tie rod ends and a 4 wheel alinment.

This solved a few other problems but the play in the steeringwheel and tramlining are still the same...
Then i chanced the steering shaft (intermitiat shaft) for a other one ( feels solit no play in the u joints). It had no difference but i noticed play in the end of the steering colum.

I'm also not sure if that play at the steering colum is normal? And i dont want tho chance the part with no effect.

Can somebody confirm about play/no play in the end of the steeringcolum??

Thanks 😁

[PhaseP]

There shouldn't be any play in the steering column intermediate shaft u joint area. but mine is xi and has different intermediate shaft than red I think.
The tramlining and steering wheel turning on bumps is different issue than play in the shaft connections. The clicks when turning the wheel are more likely related to play. For tramlining look at tires suspension etc

[Reinier91]

Okay,

to makes things clear.
I dont have play in the steeringshaft u joints, the attachments to the steering rack and steeringcolum are solid.

The only play i can feel is in de steering colum, this part:


When i grap the lowest point of the colum, i can move it a little:


Shoud there been play in there?? or must it be rocksolid??

thanks!

[PhaseP]

The steering column is kind of two parts for my description purpose in this context: the upper part that is bolted to the car body under the dash which is the gray thick long section with the thick sheet metal under it in that upper picture. The lower part starts with the thick long splines with hints of black grease on the splines again in that upper picture.

The lower part is made so that it telescopes in an out of the upper part. The telescoping action allows assembly of the lower intermediate shaft u-joint while the steering column is bolted on the car. You push the lower part into the upper part, align with the u-joint, push it back out into the u-joint hole and then bolt it with the pinch bolt on the u-joint.

Once the pinch bolt is tightened, it shouldn't allow the lower part telescoping in or out of the upper part of the steering column.

In my car what I have been experiencing is, the pinch bolt that secures the u-joint to the steering column lower part gets loose by time, even with blue locktite which factory uses too. Once the pinch bolt is loose enough on the u-joint it allows some play there. And that is because the pinch bolt goes through one of those two grooves cut into the end of the lower part of the steering column. One of those grooves is on the second picture you posted above very visible. The bolt stays in that groove, but bolt diameter is smaller than the grooves diameter. It prevents the u-joint coming off, but allows play. With the pinch bolt loose, the steering shaft lower part will also be able to play in and out of the upper part as much as the distance between that groove diameter and the pinch bolt diameter. Without the pinch bolt as I wrote above it would be able to telescope into the upper part of the column all the way, and come out as well.

So I hope this helps. I can't tell what you have. Best way to examine would be take out the steering column and check on bench. This is how I found my my problem was.
And again I only have clicking or more clunking while driving low speed and turning the wheel, especially on bumpy pavement. I don't have tramlining or any higher speed issues. I don't believe later is related to play in the steering column or the connecting elements down below. In my experience tires are the biggest to contribute to tramlining. Once a tire place had put directional tires in reverse direction on one of my cars, and talk about tramlining.
The steering wheel moving when hitting a bump is due to suspension geometry changing with sudden movement of one wheel up and down. I believe this is called "bump steering" and is expected to a degree. Suspension is the biggest actor in that also from what I know.

[blueloco]

Can someone clarify how the lower universal joint setup works? Mine has some slop where the rectangular shaft enters. The clamp screw is tight and the TIS is very specific about not re torquing.

Should I get a new screw and just try clamping it harder? Shims? I only feel a clunk from steering at slow speeds but guessing this is where it is coming from. Seems like something to fix before it gets worse.

This part:

[jamesfawcett]

Originally Posted by PhaseP

Mine has a slack at the same spot for a long time now. It is not the steering column, it is the connection of the u joint to the column. It has a pinch bolt, this is blue lock tight secured. It doesn't hold tight especially if it was removed and reassembled. It holds tight for a few weeks but then loosens. Once the bolt is loose it allows the u joint move up and down a few mms. This is noticeable while driving only when moving parking speeds and steering , especially on bumpy pavement. I fixed it once by tightening that pinch bolt with fresh blue lock tite but it came back after a while. Planning add some shims around the bolt to take up the slack and tighten again but never yet got to it yet. It is worse at hot days since the slack gets widened by heat expansion.

Digging up a very old thread here - sorry!

Ive had problems with mine ever since I bought the car, had a full new column fitted under AUC warranty which lasted for about 100 miles, then the problem is back. Had loads of problems with BMW Lloyds in Colne over it when their technicians "couldn't tell there was a problem". I finally got a tech who also had an E90 and had the same issue on his in the past.

In the end I have fixed it by swapping the bottom bolt for a slightly longer 35mm high tensile M8 allen bolt, which protrudes out the other side. With the combination of plenty of locktite, the M8 bolt and then a nut on the other side to secure the bolt, it's finally solved.

I had the same problem as the guy above, it would tighten then work for a short while, but always frustratingly come back. There are many drivers that wouldn't notice, as it is very very subtle play in the wheel, but I can tell the difference.

Definitely a design flaw!

[p1zaul]

I'm having the same issue with the popping creaking sound, would tightening the bolt fix this or do I need a new lower steering shaft?

[streetpro]

This lower assembly is a deformation/collapsible part, it should not move axial at all, if it does, it has been depressed already and someone forced it to expand again... so there might be some play in the cross joints (as it takes excessive force) causing a vague feel in steering...