[secretsquirrel]

Good information in this thread. It should be obvious that there are lots of people within this community who are hungry foe knowledge. The more knowledge sharing with he community is going to benefit the companies with the best products.

[mithiral67]

Let's keep the thread positive and educational.

[Bagelfast]

Good discussion. Shiv is one of the best N54 tuners in the world and has some of the best knowledge of it..always interesting

Originally Posted by Boostin335

Looks like only 2 showed up to discuss... would love for more interaction of other significant parties in the n54 modding world to hear their input.

If only Terry was not banned !!! This would be reallly good, epic..

[XJS]

I would like GIAC to chime in...

[D.B.S]

Exactly... We (as the consumers) have our own outlooks on who or which tune is the best, and that will never change, but let's keep those comments to ourselves and let the tuners themselves keep this converstaion Civil. I for one believe each tune has it's own merits and de-merits, but I'm not discussing them and believe everyone should do the same.

Let the TUNER's, who have more knowledge than the rest of us, do the talking and just maybe it will educate the rest of us who don't know anything (or think they know everything).

It would be nice if the tuners from GIAC, DINAN, BMS/Terry, and any others that I missed would chime in (and keep it CIVIL) so we get the perspective from all sides.

[Overboost]

I just learned ALOT about how ecus work. Thanks guys.

[themyst]

Based on this statement by Rob@Cobb:

There is a history of what timing the ECU requests on individual cylinders, but it's much faster than the Subaru and Mitsu ECUs you speak of. They generally are very slow and require a reset to get your timing back in any kind of timely fashion. The BMW is trying hard to run what the calibrators set as MBT and will continue to try to get back to those values asap. It just happens the ECU is good enough to pull the timing in near real-time conditions not leaving a history clearly visible. As a matter of fact the system is so sensitive it likely will pull 2-3 degrees on a cylinder on stock mapping when running good gas. All the cylinders will start talking when the detonation threshold gets closer. I believe your device listens to one of the cylinders which happens to be a quieter cylinder. Either way the BMW/Seimens/Bosch logic (not sure who all had their hands in the logic ) used is safe, effective, and efficient when the ECU knows what is actually going on.

My question is, can ignition timing be monitored on each cylinder on a Piggyback with CAN access? Also, can timing be fine-tuned per cylinder on the Cobb AP?

The reason why I ask this question is it seems based on past failures and other evidence, cylinder 6 seems to run hotter than the others.

[Alan l.]

Great post and discussion between two extremely smart tuners.

There shouldn't be always bashing between tuners. Different strokes for folks and the market is plenty big for both imo.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by XJS

I would like GIAC to chime in...

That will never happen. They will never allow their tuners/DME engineers to post on any forums. I have never seen in in almost 10 years of Audi/VW/Porsche and now BMW flash tuning.

It would be great if they would join the technical discussion.


The question regarding knock activity cylinder monitoring is an important one. I want to hear Shiv/Terry and their implementation of this and if in fact they are only listening to 1 cylinder for knock activity, then making decisions based on timing etc...for all cylinders?

[D.B.S]

^^
What a shame.... Don't we all benefit from the shared knowledge? It really sucks that they have a policy like that (if it is in fact a company policy).

I understand protecting your product, but if it gives your potential customers a better understanding of what your doing, or how your doing it, don't you think that would bring more into your fold (or under your wing) however you want to put it?

[Clap135]

Giac wont show up here for the sole reason that there arnt many Giac n54s out there. Now that cobb pretty does the same PLUS MORE for 500 dollars less, Giac is pretty much out of the equation unless u run in europe...for now.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Giac wont show up here for the sole reason that there arnt many Giac n54s out there. Now that cobb pretty does the same PLUS MORE for 500 dollars less, Giac is pretty much out of the equation unless u run in europe...for now.

Don't forget the fact the COBB AP can be resold

[Former_Boosted_IS]

The interesting part of the discussion is the real world. If we are seeing load limits hold back on piggybacks, then one would expect the COBB cars to consistently run faster and dyno higher on mustangs. If GIAC is also removing these load limits, then why aren't their cars running more power than the piggies or faster track times? It just doesn't seem to be making any difference in the real world.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

The interesting part of the discussion is the real world. If we are seeing load limits hold back on piggybacks, then one would expect the COBB cars to consistently run faster and dyno higher on mustangs. If GIAC is also removing these load limits, then why aren't their cars running more power than the piggies or faster track times? It just doesn't seem to be making any difference in the real world.

Because mr5 is pretty much the only GIAC car that runs at the strip. Last time out he ran 15.x psi and trapped well. He also got into the 9s 60-130 via vbox at only 15.x psi....make you wonder if he ran 19 like the other "record" holders run.

[Chefcg1]

great info and it gave me some clearer understanding as I have always wondered how load was precevied coming from DSM and LS1 platforms.

[Mikey_Bo0sts]

Yeah mr.5 car is quick with the low amount of boost he's running , seen some videos him running heavily modified e92 m3's and he was beating them.

[tscdennab]

Sorry to disappoint some but this thread totally reinforced my opinion that the MSD81 ECU is too good at what it does to not use it at full potential. Hence I chose a flash. I have never understood some tuner's comments that the MSD8x ECU is not good for higher boost levels. This statement just doesn't make sense.

My prediction is that the piggyback tuners will switch to flash tunes in 8-12 months.

[Bagelfast]

So is it clear to say that load limits are NOT hindering piggybacks potentials?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

So is it clear to say that load limits are NOT hindering piggybacks potentials?

No its not clear to say at all. I find it funny how the actual question wasnt even discussed in this thread...lol

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by 1LUMI335

Good discussion. Shiv is one of the best N54 tuners in the world and has some of the best knowledge of it..always interesting




If only Terry was not banned !!! This would be reallly good, epic..

I'm not sure Tike could keep up with this discussion.

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Because mr5 is pretty much the only GIAC car that runs at the strip.

Let's not forget that there are many N54 GIAC cars tunning at the track (and also winning competitions - HP Autowerks, Berk, Mr. 5, Alpina_B3_Lux, etc.) which is a much more complex task than the drag strip runs.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Let's not forget that there are many N54 GIAC cars tunning at the track (and also winning competitions - HP Autowerks, Berk, Mr. 5, Alpina_B3_Lux, etc.) which is a much more complex task than the drag strip runs.

Well, power for the most part, does not mean jack on a road course. On the stip, outside of figuring out how to launch, its all about how much power the car puts down.

Ive said it before, GIAC seams to have a solid tune for road course racers, not so much for the drag strip junkie.