[RNByrd3]

Hi all,
I'm hoping you can help me out. I had an accident in my 2011 328xi 6MT wagon, alpine white on saddle brown with only 67,000 miles. What I thought was just a minor fender bender turned out to be a possible "total loss" due to a bent frame rail. The estimate for repair is just over $10,000 since it is very labor intensive to remove the engine in order to replace the rail and the cross member.
I am trying to work with the insurance company to prove to them that the car is worth more than they're valuing it, and that it should be repaired rather than totaled. I provided them some examples of other e91 6MTs that are for sale, and that have sold recently, but they're telling me that I need to provide:
1. the same year, make, and model with mileage within 50,000 miles of my current mileage.
2. A valid VIN
3. The seller's phone number
4. A working website link to the car.
5. It must be within 150 mile radius of my current zip of 17603 (Lancaster, PA)
6. I can provide up to 5 comparable vehicles.

I provided links to a bunch of Bring A Trailer auctions that ended recently, but they said that most of them did not meet their requirements.
They are making it near impossible to prove the worth of the car, so I'm hoping some of my fellow Bimmer Post members can help me out.

[Efthreeoh]

Here's my thoughts. So did you have the accident, or did someone hit you and you are dealing with their insurance. Second, where did you take the car for an estimate. It's possible the frame is not bent, or can be pulled out rather than cut out and replaced.

Can you post pics of the damage? A minor fender bender and removal of the frame rail aren't congruent. Your assessment of the damage may be correct and the insurance companies evaluator may be giving a worst case assessment. If the insurance company is not your own and you don't like their repair estimate, then you should get your insurance company involved.

[oVeRdOsE.]

+1 independent estimate .

How many people are in the same situation with super rare worthless car ( 300zx, 1stgen civics, 280z, type R, 1st gen quattro, so on... )

They don't scrap the car. they do a full inspection + estimate, then they negotiate with the insurance company . They will probably give you a small % of the cost repair, then you deal with the rest.

One thing for sure, a LCI 6mt e91 with real leather interior is rare. I worth the effort of keeping it or swapping everything in a base low mileage e91.

And for the mile radius is so stupid. You should try to get BMW sales number to show them those e91 were pretty rare, and the price should be relatively the same no matter the state.

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Here's my thoughts. So did you have the accident, or did someone hit you and you are dealing with their insurance. Second, where did you take the car for an estimate. It's possible the frame is not bent, or can be pulled out rather than cut out and replaced.

Can you post pics of the damage? A minor fender bender and removal of the frame rail aren't congruent. Your assessment of the damage may be correct and the insurance companies evaluator may be giving a worst case assessment. If the insurance company is not your own and you don't like their repair estimate, then you should get your insurance company involved.

It's a bit of a long story, but ultimately the accident was my fault so I am dealing with my own insurance company. I initially used their online app to upload photos of the damage, and from there they sent me a check minus my deductible. I then took it to a very good shop that I've dealt with before. Upon disassembly and inspection, the shop found the bent frame rail and put in for a supplement to the tune of just over $10,000. The insurance company then sent out an independent adjustor to make their assessment. I was then informed that they're calling it a total loss.
Below are the only photos I have as the car is still at the body shop.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Bruh how does the frame bend after a minor accident like that lol.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Bruh how does the frame bend after a minor accident like that lol.

Hell I got rear-ended at 5mph and the trucks tow hook did $3100 worth of damage despite it only looking like a bumper dent and a hole in the plastic.

Cars today arent made to be repaired anymore, everything is made to be sacrificial to burn energy in a crash.

Im terrified now of a wreck for my 08 E91 because its basically impossible to replace. Ive been shopping and there isnt anything I want to replace it with.

[smass]

Since the shop dissembled, there should be some pictures of the frame damage. Do you have those?

Look down into the engine bay and compare the passenger side to the drivers. The front of the frame rail is easy to see. See pic. The studs are what the bumper support mounts to.

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Bruh how does the frame bend after a minor accident like that lol.

I don't know, but I can confirm that it's bent. AND it's on the opposite side of the impact.

[porsche959]

bringatrailer is ur friend here

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by smassey321

Since the shop dissembled, there should be some pictures of the frame damage. Do you have those?

Look down into the engine bay and compare the passenger side to the drivers. The front of the frame rail is easy to see. See pic. The studs are what the bumper support mounts to.

I saw the bend myself after the accident, but wasn't convinced the accident was the cause since it was on the opposite side and the impact didn't seem that bad.

[oVeRdOsE.]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Bruh how does the frame bend after a minor accident like that lol.

haha wondering the same.

Does the frame is structurally affected?
Will this affect the safety?

I think this is the question. A professional engineer can complete a report.

A safe frame, 0.003'' off from spec, just get wheel alignment for the correction and call it a day. B is for Build style .

[charlieb]

Airbags go off?

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by porsche959

bringatrailer is ur friend here

I provided multiple Bring A Trailer auctions, but the insurance company has very specific criteria, and unfortunately most of the BAT auctions were not within the 150 miles radius of my zip code that they're requiring.

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by charlieb

Airbags go off?

No

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by RNByrd3

...I then took it to a very good shop that I've dealt with before. Upon disassembly and inspection, the shop found the bent frame rail and put in for a supplement to the tune of just over $10,000. The insurance company then sent out an independent adjustor to make their assessment. I was then informed that they're calling it a total loss.
Below are the only photos I have as the car is still at the body shop.

I agree with "F30" -- you do NOT have an insurance issue (except perhaps for insurance fraud -- by the insurer ;-) but it SOUNDS like you have a diagnosis issue.

"BENT FRAME RAIL"??? WHAT frame rail??? AFAIK, there is no such thing in the E91. You DO have a front subframe, but with NO impact to either front wheel, NO bent or broken front suspension members, NOT even a scratch on your wheels or scuff marks on your tires, HOW did anything in the front suspension or subframe get bent or pushed out of shape?

If I'm a knowledgeable insurance adjuster, if there IS something bent in the front suspension/ subframe, I'm taking the position it was NOT caused by this minor accident that messed up the bumper cover but broke NO glass and scratched NO sheet metal. Do you know the HISTORY of your vehicle? Have you seen the CarFax? When were those wheels (aftermarket I presume) installed on the vehicle and by whom? Did you drive the car after the "collision", and was there any steering or handling issue suggestive of anything different from handling PRIOR to "collision"?

We can ONLY guess without either a careful personal inspection of the front suspension and subframe, OR Photos showing what your "Shop" claims is bent, and additional photos of chassis or suspension pieces that "transferred" or "transmitted" any forces of the "Collision" to the "Bent Frame."

So you basically have the following issues to resolve BEFORE trying to "Negotiate" with the Insurer:
1) WHAT does the "Shop" claim is bent or damaged?
2) To what degree does that affect how the car runs or handles?
3) HOW did this minor collision cause the bent or damaged component?
4) How did the impact of the collision get transferred to whatever is bent or damaged (same issue as 3)?

George

[lab_rat]

Originally Posted by RNByrd3

I don't know, but I can confirm that it's bent. AND it's on the opposite side of the impact.

Maybe my understanding of your statement/their assessment is incorrect...

Judging by the pics, damage to the OPPOSITE side rail seems nearly impossible.

Ten grand in damage? Where? LOL

I can't believe your car is totaled.

I hope you get this resolved and that beauty back on the road ASAP.

[tcphoto]

I would have a conversation with the body shop and get a realistic estimate on the repair. The number you receive is all that insurance wants, they will make up their own mind up on the value and whether it's totaled or not. If it's totaled and your insurance will cover a totaled vehicle then I'd buy it back and repair it. I would also install an M Sport bumper.

[Efthreeoh]

Okay, so I can claim some expertize here, sadly. I've hit two deer in my E90 both at speeds at or above 50 MPH. Both hits were at each front corner; in 2006 the first deer hit on the right front, in 2018 the second deer hit the left front. Both deer were medium sized. Both hits we're practically identical, fender, hood, bumper cover, headlight, and core support (the frame across the front that holds the radiator and AC condenser). Being 12 years apart, the repair prices were $4,500 and $4,900 respectively. Based on your pics there is no way that is $10K worth of damage. And no way is the left frame rail bent when the car was hit on the right side corner. What exactly happened in the accident?

The E9X chassis has a fiber reinforced plastic composite core support that is designed to fail (i.e. break) before crash energy is transferred to the steel frame rails. Both times with the deer hits my car took, the core support cracked, dissipating the crash energy. At worse the core support is twisted and cracked somewhere and is stressing the top of the frame rail at the fender mounts. I'd bet once the core support is removed and the bumper beam, the frame straightens right out.

Whoever did the repair estimate does not know what he is looking and does not understand how to estimate the repair. Go to a certified BMW repair center and have the car re-estimated.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I agree with "F30" -- you do NOT have an insurance issue (except perhaps for insurance fraud -- by the insurer ;-) but it SOUNDS like you have a diagnosis issue.

"BENT FRAME RAIL"??? WHAT frame rail??? AFAIK, there is no such thing in the E91. You DO have a front subframe, but with NO impact to either front wheel, NO bent or broken front suspension members, NOT even a scratch on your wheels or scuff marks on your tires, HOW did anything in the front suspension or subframe get bent or pushed out of shape?

If I'm a knowledgeable insurance adjuster, if there IS something bent in the front suspension/ subframe, I'm taking the position it was NOT caused by this minor accident that messed up the bumper cover but broke NO glass and scratched NO sheet metal. Do you know the HISTORY of your vehicle? Have you seen the CarFax? When were those wheels (aftermarket I presume) installed on the vehicle and by whom? Did you drive the car after the "collision", and was there any steering or handling issue suggestive of anything different from handling PRIOR to "collision"?

We can ONLY guess without either a careful personal inspection of the front suspension and subframe, OR Photos showing what your "Shop" claims is bent, and additional photos of chassis or suspension pieces that "transferred" or "transmitted" any forces of the "Collision" to the "Bent Frame."

So you basically have the following issues to resolve BEFORE trying to "Negotiate" with the Insurer:
1) WHAT does the "Shop" claim is bent or damaged?
2) To what degree does that affect how the car runs or handles?
3) HOW did this minor collision cause the bent or damaged component?
4) How did the impact of the collision get transferred to whatever is bent or damaged (same issue as 3)?

George

The panel gap of the hood and right fender looks perfect. The left gap looks ok too. The only thing I can think of that could possibly bend the left frame rail is if the crash force hit the very end of the bumper beam and pushed the left rail, but it would pull the right rail along with it and screw the panel gap between the right fender and hood. IMO if the left rail is bent at all, it is so minor, it can be pulled back on a frame machine.

A BMW certified body shop has frame straightening equipment that has BMW frame specs and is computer numerically controlled to straighten the frame back to factory spec. Fairfax BMW used their machine to get the trunk box of my Z4 back to spec. They put my Z4 back together so good you can not tell it was repaired. There is no way the OP's has $10K of frame damage. The body shop does not have the correct equipment to make a proper repair.

[Tre']

I'd get a second opinion and a breakdown of everything they are repairing or replacing. I rear ended someone a month ago in my e91 and my estimate was $5400 to replace the core support, rebar, airbag and do some paint and bodywork on my hood and front bumper. There were a few other little things in there that were completely unnecessary.

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Okay, so I can claim so expertize here, sadly. I've hit two deer in my E90 both at speeds at or above 50 MPH. Both hits were at each front corner; in 2006 the first deer hit on the right front, in 2018 the second deer hit the left front. Both deer were medium sized. Both hits we're practically identical, fender, hood, bumper cover, headlight, and core support (the frame across the front that holds the radiator and AC condenser). Being 12 years apart, the repair prices were $4,500 and $4,900 respectively. Based on your pics there is no way that is $10K worth of damage. And no way is the left frame rail bent when the car was hit on the right side corner. What exactly happened in the accident?

The E9X chassis has a fiber reinforced plastic composite core support that is designed to fail (i.e. break) before crash energy is transferred to the steel frame rails. Both times with the deer hits my car took, the core support cracked, dissipating the crash energy. At worse the core support is twisted and cracked somewhere and is stressing the top of the frame rail at the fender mounts. I'd bet once the core support is removed and the bumper beam, the frame straightens right out.

Whoever did the repair estimate does not know what he is looking and does not understand how to estimate the repair. Go to a certified BMW repair center and have the car re-estimated.

I turned left out of a small alley and into the path or a car heading in the same direction in which I was turning. I did not see the other car due to cars parked all along the street and hit him before I saw him. My car clipped the rear wheel of his car. The only damage to his car was a large hole in the sidewall of his tire.

I drove the car several times after the accident and it had no change to the drive characteristics whatsoever.

[RNByrd3]

Originally Posted by oVeRdOsE.

+1 independent estimate .

How many people are in the same situation with super rare worthless car ( 300zx, 1stgen civics, 280z, type R, 1st gen quattro, so on... )

They don't scrap the car. they do a full inspection + estimate, then they negotiate with the insurance company . They will probably give you a small % of the cost repair, then you deal with the rest.

One thing for sure, a LCI 6mt e91 with real leather interior is rare. I worth the effort of keeping it or swapping everything in a base low mileage e91.

And for the mile radius is so stupid. You should try to get BMW sales number to show them those e91 were pretty rare, and the price should be relatively the same no matter the state.

Any idea on how I can obtain the number of e91 6MTs from 2011?