E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > DIY Guides > Clutch Replacement for the N52



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-01-2020, 03:46 PM   #23
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Cut them off.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2020, 12:29 AM   #24
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Cut them off.
Tried cleaning the bolts with a wire attachment, soaking with PB blaster, heating with a torch, and then hitting them with an impact wrench. They just crumbled and rounded off.

So I managed to cut off 3 of the studs. But the whole thing still isn't budging, as it seems that the two flanges and gasket are all fused together by rust. Lowering my jack and putting the weight of the exhaust on that connection did nothing.

Going to get a better sawzall blade tomorrow and hack off the fourth nut/stud. Then I'll use a chisel or perhaps even cut into the rear flange to try to get some leverage and pry them apart.

Between the cats and o2 sensors I'm reluctant to use too much heat or brute force in that area...
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2020, 09:39 PM   #25
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

So, any lingering doubt I had about whether my flywheel was the source of the trouble has quickly vanished. Gunk everywhere!


Just a couple of notes along the way...

RUST SUCKS. By far the worst parts of this job so far have been getting the exhaust and driveshaft out. I think rust accounts for 75% of the time I've spent so far. As I posted earlier, my exhaust manifold/primary cats-to-midpipe flanges were seemingly fused together and did not want to separate.
The same thing happened with the driveshaft's universal joint connection to the differential flange: rusted together. It took two nights of soaking the area with PB blaster, and several hours' worth of heating the interface with a torch and banging away at it with chisels to get it to separate. The car's spent 9+ years of its life in the rust belt so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. If you're in a similar boat it might be wise to get an exhaust shop to take care of the flanges beforehand (I'm going to try to get the studs out but failing that am going to just drive it to an exhaust shop once I'm done). And an induction heater (or something else more powerful than propane) might be a worthwhile investment.

I did ultimately manage to undo the driveshaft bolts/nuts without lifting the car off of my ramps to free up the wheels. But it was tight.

Doing this job at the same time as my PCV refresh/3IM swap was a good decision. Having the manifold out makes it way easier to get to the 12:00 and 1:00 bell housing bolts.



We'll see if I manage to put this all back together correctly. After 14ish years of daily driver duty, my car's been mostly parked for the past year. I'm really looking forward to getting it back in action.

I assume it is normal for there to be some play in the diff? I could rotate my driveshaft slightly with the tires stationary... not much, maybe about 10-20 degrees.
Attached Images
 
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2

Last edited by 850CSi; 12-05-2020 at 09:49 PM..
Appreciate 1
wdb4673.00
      12-06-2020, 09:07 AM   #26
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Wow. What is all that gunk in the bell housing?!? Yes some play in the diff is normal. If your car has miles it might have a bit more play than a new car, but I would not worry about it unless there are other symptoms of a problem with the diff.

Are you going with a short shift kit? I'd at least replace the soft bits in the shift assembly.

Nice transmission jack!
Appreciate 1
850CSi99.50
      12-06-2020, 11:51 PM   #27
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, that's what I figured. Gunk is doubtless from the failed DMF (probably along with some oil from my pan gasket, which had been leaking). I'll try to get some pictures once I get it out of the car. I am hoping that I don't find a leaking rear main seal when I do.

Short shifter is absolutely part of the project. I'm swapping in the BMW Performance short shifter and new bushings. Trying to figure out whether a DSSR and/or delrin bushings are a worthy upgrade as well or just a waste of money.

The jack situation actually pissed me off a bit because I didn't want to pay $250+ for something I'm hoping to use only once, and with a 2000lb capacity it's total overkill. But that was the only one I could find that would meet my height requirements. Everything else was too tall or too short. Hopefully I'll be able to sell it.



Still a long way to go. My transmission is clearly leaking, and I'm trying to figure out whether it's coming from the shifter rod or the output shaft seals (or both). But I shouldn't have any rust to worry about anymore, so hopefully steady progress in the coming days.
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2

Last edited by 850CSi; 12-06-2020 at 11:58 PM..
Appreciate 1
wdb4673.00
      12-07-2020, 12:22 PM   #28
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Too bad you're not closer -- you could have used my transmission jack, which I'll probably only ever use once! (I have a lift now and will need a different jack.)

I'll be interested to hear more about the flywheel. I replaced mine because it has a bit more play than the spec says it should, plus I was in there so why not.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2020, 07:55 PM   #29
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I'll be interested to hear more about the flywheel. I replaced mine because it has a bit more play than the spec says it should, plus I was in there so why not.
Not much to say!
Attached Images
 
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2
Appreciate 1
3PedalJake2613.50
      12-07-2020, 07:57 PM   #30
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Anyone able to offer some insight as to whether I'm looking at a RMS that needs replacement here? It's just hard to tell with the various other sources of gunk and oil. (I recently did both the VCG and oil pan gasket, they were both leaking, and I'm honestly not entirely sure that I got the gaskets to seal perfectly)
Attached Images
 
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2020, 08:12 PM   #31
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 850CSi View Post
Anyone able to offer some insight as to whether I'm looking at a RMS that needs replacement here? It's just hard to tell with the various other sources of gunk and oil. (I recently did both the VCG and oil pan gasket, they were both leaking, and I'm honestly not entirely sure that I got the gaskets to seal perfectly)
Its dry at the top left quadrant, so I think the seal is good. But if it were my car I'd clean the area real good and let it sit over night to see if any oil comes out the seal. The gap between the engine block and crank seal is sealed with a special sealant so it should leak there. What your concerned about is the seal around the big end of the crankshaft. It being dry on top tells me the seal is in tact. The juice on the bottom is probably from the rear of the oil pan when the oil pan gasket went bad.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2020, 08:13 PM   #32
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 850CSi View Post
Not much to say!
That's fawcked...
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 1
wdb4673.00
      12-08-2020, 05:27 AM   #33
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
That's fawcked...
Good choice of words. I worked with a dutchie who said things were "schwok" when they were very broken, but I can't find a reference in the dictionaries. I still use it though!
Appreciate 0
      12-09-2020, 10:43 PM   #34
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Its dry at the top left quadrant, so I think the seal is good. But if it were my car I'd clean the area real good and let it sit over night to see if any oil comes out the seal. The gap between the engine block and crank seal is sealed with a special sealant so it should leak there. What your concerned about is the seal around the big end of the crankshaft. It being dry on top tells me the seal is in tact. The juice on the bottom is probably from the rear of the oil pan when the oil pan gasket went bad.

Thanks! After cleaning the area, here's what I've got. The complicating factor is that my car is sitting in a cold garage -- I'm really not sure I'd see much of anything even if it was leaking? (Struggling with the same issue with the transmission right now as well, which I'm pretty sure is leaking from the shifter rod or output shaft seals). There is a bit of crud on that upper part but I don't know the source.

I am inclined to just leave it alone on the theory that even if it's leaking I could wind up making it worse.
Attached Images
   
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2
Appreciate 0
      12-12-2020, 10:55 PM   #35
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Guys, is the friction disc supposed to be loose-ish under the pressure plate until I release the SAC 'star'? I'm guessing that's the point at which the pressure plate springs fully compress onto the friction disc? I ask because I can still move the friction disc with the alignment tool and am trying to figure out how to get it perfectly centered.
Attached Images
 
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2020, 08:11 AM   #36
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 850CSi View Post
Guys, is the friction disc supposed to be loose-ish under the pressure plate until I release the SAC 'star'? I'm guessing that's the point at which the pressure plate springs fully compress onto the friction disc? I ask because I can still move the friction disc with the alignment tool and am trying to figure out how to get it perfectly centered.
Yes, the purpose of the centering tool is to center the disk to the crankshaft. There should enough friction once the pressure plate is in place to remove the centering tool screw without the clutch disk (friction disk) moving, then release the pressure plate springs by removing the throwing star. Then reinsert the centering tool bolt and remove the centering tool. The centering tool keeps the clutch disk centered to the crankshaft when the throwing star is released.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 1
wdb4673.00
      12-14-2020, 11:07 PM   #37
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Thanks! Got the transmission back on. I wound up having a lot of trouble but funny enough I took one of the guide pins out and it slid right on.

A dumb question as I’m now wondering if I missed something. Is there any particular arrangement for the clutch fork retaining spring?

Do the ends need to be clipped/tied/hooked together, or is this fine?
Attached Images
 

Last edited by 850CSi; 12-14-2020 at 11:17 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-15-2020, 05:20 AM   #38
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 850CSi View Post
Thanks! Got the transmission back on. I wound up having a lot of trouble but funny enough I took one of the guide pins out and it slid right on.

A dumb question as I’m now wondering if I missed something. Is there any particular arrangement for the clutch fork retaining spring?

Do the ends need to be clipped/tied/hooked together, or is this fine?
Nope, perfectly installed just as you have it.
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2020, 08:36 PM   #39
850CSi
16 years and counting...
850CSi's Avatar
100
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: '06 325i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

So… after a few minor hiccups I’m done! Put the manifold on and fired her up. Made an unholy racket.
Drove straight to an exhaust shop this morning... that was an interesting experience, in snowy 15 degree weather with my windows down.

Special thanks to @Efthreeoh for the well-written DIY and his patient help in this thread.


To recap, total scope of work this time around included:

complete CCV refresh
3-stage manifold conversion
flywheel & clutch + associated parts (I went with the Luk OE-style DMF set with the larger diameter 330i clutch over a SMF conversion, happy to explain my rationale)
flex disc (I saw some hairlines and decided to just change it)
shifter refresh (carrier bushings, rod joint, etc) and OE SSK conversion
shifter rod seal
transmission & diff fluid
transmission mounts

(I decided to leave the rear main seal and transmission output & input shaft seals alone because I could not definitively identify any leaking)

As I’ve mentioned before, rust accounted for by far the worst aspects of this job. It took an inordinate amount of time to remove the exhaust (up front at the flange between the primary and secondary cats) and driveshaft (at the diff flange) for that reason.

Almost everything else was fairly smooth sailing, with the exception of getting the transmission back in. For some reason, on the first several tries I simply could not get the bell housing to completely mate with the engine block. I would get stuck about 8-10mm away — close enough that I figured it probably wasn’t an issue with getting the input shaft splines into the clutch disc. Eventually it just slid right in. I’m not sure why, but I did remove the guide bolt I had put in at the 10 o’clock position. It is not supposed to be very difficult, so don’t force it!

The bell housing bolts, especially the 12 o’clock and 1 o’clock bolts, are definitely not fun as the firewall likes to get in the way. As has been noted it absolutely helps to use a jack or support brace to push the front of the engine up & tilt the backside of the engine block down (and I’m really not sure you can get the transmission back in without it). Universal joints, wobbles, and loooong extensions are worth their weight in gold. I think I h had trouble getting the bolts fully torqued down (see below) but I hope it won’t be an issue. Doing this with the manifold off is definitely easier, but it’s a judgment call as to whether it’s worth it if you’re not doing any other work in that area.


I do have a few notes to add:
  • If you get underneath and see a rusty exhaust flange nut/stud, STOP. Go to an exhaust shop and have them address that first.
  • For the bell housing bolts, I think the torque values in the Bentley manual are wrong (see attached)
  • Definitely follow the wise suggestion to make a cardboard diagram of the bell housing & particular bolts, it was very handy
  • There have been some confused posts on this and other forums about how the throwout bearing is supposed to be oriented in the clutch fork, for those bearings that have two possible options. For a possible answer to that question, see my post here: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...1#post27050501. But really just hold on to your old one and keep it oriented as you take it out of the car, and that'll give you the answer.
  • It may be worth buying an appropriate [metal] clutch alignment tool instead of relying on the somewhat flimsy plastic ones that come with the kits.
  • In addition to new flywheel bolts, don’t forget to get new pressure plate bolts. And be careful when removing those hex bolts when you’re taking off the old pressure plate — I stripped one of mine and couldn’t fully separate the pressure plate from the flywheel. I had to bend the pressure plate back (not smart, hope I didn't damage my crankshaft) to get at the flywheel bolts.
  • Also, I’m not sure about the bolts themselves (I reused mine), but it seems that the flex disc locking nuts are single use and should be replaced.
  • Probably worth swapping out the old transmission mounts along the way if you haven’t done that already

Please note that the RWD 325i and 328i (Getrag) have a different transmission than AWD variants and the RWD 330i (ZF). I’m not sure if it makes any difference, but just something to be aware of.

I still have some vibration under load, but it's unsurprisingly much better than before. Breaking in a clutch in weather this cold may not be optimal...
Attached Images
 
__________________
E90 325i 6MT + E61 530xiT 6AT = N52B30*2

Last edited by 850CSi; 12-24-2020 at 09:05 PM..
Appreciate 2
Efthreeoh16946.00
wdb4673.00
      12-25-2020, 04:41 PM   #40
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Congratulations! Well done.
Appreciate 1
Efthreeoh16946.00
      07-15-2021, 11:40 AM   #41
TR6
Registered
0
Rep
1
Posts

Drives: Triumph TR6 S52
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

New to the N52 engine and looking for advice on locating a N52 for swap. Can a manual transmission be bolted to an N52 that came from the factory with an automatic/steptronic transmission?
I know the ECU and engine harness aren't compatible (and only looking at RWD cars) but is the bell housing universal on the appropriate 6 speed manual?
I'd be dropping the N52 with 6 speed into a Triumph TR6.
Cheers
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2021, 09:09 PM   #42
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TR6 View Post
New to the N52 engine and looking for advice on locating a N52 for swap. Can a manual transmission be bolted to an N52 that came from the factory with an automatic/steptronic transmission?
I know the ECU and engine harness aren't compatible (and only looking at RWD cars) but is the bell housing universal on the appropriate 6 speed manual?
I'd be dropping the N52 with 6 speed into a Triumph TR6.
Cheers
I don’t have an answer but I’d love to follow the build. Maybe you could post a link to the thread?
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2021, 08:10 AM   #43
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TR6 View Post
New to the N52 engine and looking for advice on locating a N52 for swap. Can a manual transmission be bolted to an N52 that came from the factory with an automatic/steptronic transmission?
I know the ECU and engine harness aren't compatible (and only looking at RWD cars) but is the bell housing universal on the appropriate 6 speed manual?
I'd be dropping the N52 with 6 speed into a Triumph TR6.
Cheers
Yes, the E90 manual trans can be bolted up to an N52 originally supplied with an automatic. e90yyc is in the middle of such an activity as we speak. Several other members have made auto-to-manual trans swaps.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 1
wdb4673.00
      07-18-2021, 08:12 AM   #44
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16946
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I don’t have an answer but I’d love to follow the build. Maybe you could post a link to the thread?
I'd love to drop an N52 into my Wife's Z3, but I've yet to convince her the swap would be to her benefit...
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST