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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > DIY Guides > DIY: E90 Oil Pan Gasket and Subframe Drop



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      05-01-2016, 06:10 AM   #89
Efthreeoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
I recently bought a new return line and inspecting it closely I found out how to appropriately and easily disconnect it. I am talking about that oil return line from oil return tube on metal valve cover N52's (US 2006 330 and 325s).

It is meant to be disconnected by a fuel/ac quick disconnect. Any push, pull, press etc from outside on those tabs won't do anything to unlock it. It is not designed that way. Those four tabs are meant to be spread out from inside for unlocking and this is done with a line quick disconnect tool. I didn't have any, so I visited and bought a cheap plastic set from closest Autozone:

http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-an...?checkfit=true


Updated: At the below video I used the 5/8 inch blue tool from the Autozone set but had clipped off some part of it so that it would fit. Upon one more try later on, I found out that actually the 1/2 inch red tool from same set works perfectly fine and is the correct size to use. Once the tool is inserted good, you just pull the tube out. It needs some force but not a lot. A higher quality metal tool would probably work better and last longer, but this plastic set gets the job done especially for once or twice use.

Here is a video of it, sorry for the lousy camera work:

I'm glad you were able to use an AC/Fuel line quick disconnect tool to get the oil return line off. I tried with an AC/Fuel line quick disconnect tool also, an aluminum one. It didn't work for me at all. The tool I used was a scissors style tool (multiple sizes). The space where the hose is is so tight, I had to grind most of the tool away to get it to fit. It still didn't work. As a posted a few days ago, the Techs at the dealership I source most of my parts from, just hit the bottom of the bell-shaped connector (at the return pipe on the pan) with a large flat-blade screwdriver. Mine popped right off, with no damage whatsoever.
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      05-14-2016, 10:13 AM   #90
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Wow, this thread is gold! Huge thanks to KrashFinatic and all of you with pointers, suggestions and experiences. Effthreeoh, I can definitely appreciate that support brace of wood with those bridle joints! I may have to steal that idea

So, further from the obvious engine mount choice, what else would be a good "while you're in there" replacement/upgrade? I'll most likely go with the 335is mounts as stated in another thread, but what else would be nice to replace/upgrade while there's access under here?
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      05-14-2016, 10:45 AM   #91
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water pump and thermostat
Engine ground cable
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      05-14-2016, 03:30 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerve
Update: After I took my car to get the rear main seal taken care of they called me back and told me my oil pan was still leaking... I had to take it home and redo the oil pan gasket.

The first time around, one of the bolts were broken off and the stem was flush with the engine. I tried and after 30 minutes was unable to get my reverse drill bit to bite. So I gave up and just put the pan on missing one bolt.

The second time I purchased a set of cobolt drill bits and a 12 inch drill extension. Trying to drill the bolt, I couldn't get the stability I wanted out of the extension bar and I was nervous about hurting the engine so I put one of the smaller bits into my dremel. I was able to get it out after drilling in a half inch and then attaching a torx bit into the drill extension and hammering in and then screwing out.

After I was able to get the oil pan in the second time I made 5 passes slowly torquing all of the bolts. I also should note that I reused the bolt set since they were only a week old. I did notice that the loctite that was pre-applied to the bolts came off as flakes after they were removed. Hopefully that won't bite me in the ass later. It toke me about 6 hours the second go round since I didn't have to stop every 10 minutes and consult this board.

I cranked the car was still leaking like crazy. It was the same spot where the oil pan meets the transmission so I called the indy shop again and arranged to get the rear main replaced. I had to wait another week and a half for them to source the tools and parts. I finally picked up my car today and finally no leak. My mechanic and also the local BMW joint both said that they've never seen a rear main seal go out like mine. They are thinking it was installation error from the factory where they didn't put adequate sealant so the seal came loose and was spinning with the flywheel and getting chewed up. The job costed $1447. It was hard to swallow but boy am I glad it's over.
guerve be careful of reusing the aluminum bolts. The reason why they are single use is because aluminum is a soft metal and it stretches when used.
Even though you you had just put the pan bolts in they should have been replaced.

I had a brand new bolt break when installing my alternator, so I don't trust reusing them.
I feel your lucky they didn't snap upon reinstalling them.
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      07-15-2016, 10:12 AM   #93
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Aluminum Bolts

KrashFinatik

What all bolts did you replace? Did you replace the nuts as well?
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      07-20-2016, 04:19 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie90 View Post
KrashFinatik

What all bolts did you replace? Did you replace the nuts as well?
Replace the oil pan bolts, engine mount bolts & subframe bolts. Any aluminum bolt that is removed needs replacing and the new ones MUST be torqued to proper spec.
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      07-20-2016, 12:31 PM   #95
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Not sure why you'd replace the subframe and engine mount bolts, seems like a waste of money.
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      07-20-2016, 01:27 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Not sure why you'd replace the subframe and engine mount bolts, seems like a waste of money.
I didn't. Life's good
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      07-21-2016, 03:56 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlifxs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Not sure why you'd replace the subframe and engine mount bolts, seems like a waste of money.
I didn't. Life's good
I didn't either but in hind sight I wish I did. One of my engine mount bolts snapped a few weeks ago. (surprised it lasted this long)
Aluminum is a soft metal and stretches when tightened or torqued. We have to remember the amount of stress engine mounts and the subframe endure.
"Prevention is better than the cure"
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      07-21-2016, 04:08 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
I didn't either but in hind sight I wish I did. One of my engine mount bolts snapped a few weeks ago. (surprised it lasted this long)
Aluminum is a soft metal and stretches when tightened or torqued. We have to remember the amount of stress engine mounts and the subframe endure.
"Prevention is better than the cure"
Engine mount bolts and subframe bolts are steel.
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      07-22-2016, 01:47 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
I didn't either but in hind sight I wish I did. One of my engine mount bolts snapped a few weeks ago.
Bentley book says to replace the motor mount bolts (it says to replace almost every bolt )

What I had noticed is they are easy to break, and newer bolts (the ones with hex head not e-torx) are specially made to break on stress.

The torque spec on them are not very high either 28 Nm (20.6 ft lbs). It may have been fatiqued during tightening and then snap after a while. I suggest using torque wrench on them.

The subframe bolts are not mentioned to be replaced in the Bentley from what I remember. They are hefty bolts and not torqued to yield. I reused mine other than the middle one at passenger side which was badly rusted in the middle section, making it thinner there. It may be an XI frame issue trapping water right there.
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      07-22-2016, 06:28 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrashFinatik View Post
I didn't either but in hind sight I wish I did. One of my engine mount bolts snapped a few weeks ago.
Bentley book says to replace the motor mount bolts (it says to replace almost every bolt )

What I had noticed is they are easy to break, and newer bolts (the ones with hex head not e-torx) are specially made to break on stress.

The torque spec on them are not very high either 28 Nm (20.6 ft lbs). It may have been fatiqued during tightening and then snap after a while. I suggest using torque wrench on them.

The subframe bolts are not mentioned to be replaced in the Bentley from what I remember. They are hefty bolts and not torqued to yield. I reused mine other than the middle one at passenger side which was badly rusted in the middle section, making it thinner there. It may be an XI frame issue trapping water right there.
Thanks PhaseP for adding that info. I guess I should invest in a manual considering what I spend on the car.
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      07-26-2016, 05:25 AM   #101
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How did you guys manage to break free the oil pan from the block? I removed a total of 28 bolts from the pan - 10 passenger side, 9 driver side, 5 rear and 4 front. The power steering pump and trans lines are unbolted. I also completely removed the subframe as I'm having the turbos rebuilt and doing a suspension refresh all around. The oil pan is still firmly stuck. Do I wedge something between it and engine block and try to nudge it out? I'm hesitant to do this. I also tried to wiggle the pan off but the entire engine started swinging on the engine support which got me nervous something would give. I have two jack stands below engine for added safety sake.

Any tips? Car is E92 335i coupe automatic with 110k miles. Oil pan is leaking on passenger side, front and rear, the heaviest being rear.
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      07-26-2016, 09:36 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musa View Post
How did you guys manage to break free the oil pan from the block? I removed a total of 28 bolts from the pan - 10 passenger side, 9 driver side, 5 rear and 4 front. The power steering pump and trans lines are unbolted. I also completely removed the subframe as I'm having the turbos rebuilt and doing a suspension refresh all around. The oil pan is still firmly stuck. Do I wedge something between it and engine block and try to nudge it out? I'm hesitant to do this. I also tried to wiggle the pan off but the entire engine started swinging on the engine support which got me nervous something would give. I have two jack stands below engine for added safety sake.

Any tips? Car is E92 335i coupe automatic with 110k miles. Oil pan is leaking on passenger side, front and rear, the heaviest being rear.
I replaced mine this Saturday on 2006 325i manual. not sure if this helps, but I noticed that in the rear the oil pan goes into the transmission "wall plate" by a few millimeters, which could hold the pan on that end. Additionally, when I was cleaning the pan from the old gasket, the rubber melted and stuck very badly to the pan. I had to put a little force to remove all rubber material off of it. If you space all around the pan and you have 3inches below, it should come of easily. I would try to pry it off between the pan and the gasket. Did you remove the frame or you just dropped it down?
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      07-26-2016, 02:05 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ykolin View Post
I replaced mine this Saturday on 2006 325i manual. not sure if this helps, but I noticed that in the rear the oil pan goes into the transmission "wall plate" by a few millimeters, which could hold the pan on that end. Additionally, when I was cleaning the pan from the old gasket, the rubber melted and stuck very badly to the pan. I had to put a little force to remove all rubber material off of it. If you space all around the pan and you have 3inches below, it should come of easily. I would try to pry it off between the pan and the gasket. Did you remove the frame or you just dropped it down?
Yes, I completely removed the subframe off the car. The issue I'm having is that the pan is not coming off at all, all around- it's firmly stuck all around. I tried to push it forward but the entire engine swings forward on the engine support. Do I pry it off the engine block? Did yours just drop off the engine block after you removed the bolts or did you have to force it open? This is making me nervous and it seems like a trivial task on the whole gasket replacement process- all bolts removed and just need to drop the pan.
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      07-26-2016, 04:24 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musa View Post
Yes, I completely removed the subframe off the car. The issue I'm having is that the pan is not coming off at all, all around- it's firmly stuck all around. I tried to push it forward but the entire engine swings forward on the engine support. Do I pry it off the engine block? Did yours just drop off the engine block after you removed the bolts or did you have to force it open? This is making me nervous and it seems like a trivial task on the whole gasket replacement process- all bolts removed and just need to drop the pan.
I had to push it a little from side to side by hand, but overall it came off easily.

I would try to pry it right between the gasket and the oil pan with a flat screwdriver. this way you could put more force to it while the melted rubber would be used as a protective layer for the engine block when prying it off.

the old gasket got glued to the oil pan, it was very hard to scrape if off.

I assume that this is exactly what happened to you. it got melted and stuck to both surfaces.
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      07-26-2016, 10:48 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musa View Post
Yes, I completely removed the subframe off the car. The issue I'm having is that the pan is not coming off at all, all around- it's firmly stuck all around. I tried to push it forward but the entire engine swings forward on the engine support. Do I pry it off the engine block? Did yours just drop off the engine block after you removed the bolts or did you have to force it open? This is making me nervous and it seems like a trivial task on the whole gasket replacement process- all bolts removed and just need to drop the pan.
Did you remove the three bolts that go horizontally from transmission bell housing into the oil pan? If you have cast metal oil pan (not black painted), those three bolts bolt directly into the oil pan. On sheet metal oil pans they get in the way. These bolts also hold some cable tie downs brackets and clutch line bracket.

If you are sure you removed all bolts including the horizontal ones from bell housing into oil pan, you can try to tap (gently) the oil pan with a rubber mallet to break free the gasket adhesion. If you have cast metal oil pan, there should be a small pocket on both sides of the oil pan that can be used to pry it off with a pry tool. There may be something similar on sheet metal oil pans too.
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      07-27-2016, 01:42 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
Did you remove the three bolts that go horizontally from transmission bell housing into the oil pan? If you have cast metal oil pan (not black painted), those three bolts bolt directly into the oil pan. On sheet metal oil pans they get in the way. These bolts also hold some cable tie downs brackets and clutch line bracket.

If you are sure you removed all bolts including the horizontal ones from bell housing into oil pan, you can try to tap (gently) the oil pan with a rubber mallet to break free the gasket adhesion. If you have cast metal oil pan, there should be a small pocket on both sides of the oil pan that can be used to pry it off with a pry tool. There may be something similar on sheet metal oil pans too.
Sigh, that was the issue - I did not remove the 3 bolts that bolt the transmission and oil pan. Much thanks, PhaseP! The oil pan now easily broke free prying with a plastic pry tool. Those three bolts are not aluminium so no need replace them.
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      07-27-2016, 10:09 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
Did you remove the three bolts that go horizontally from transmission bell housing into the oil pan? If you have cast metal oil pan (not black painted), those three bolts bolt directly into the oil pan. On sheet metal oil pans they get in the way. These bolts also hold some cable tie downs brackets and clutch line bracket.

If you are sure you removed all bolts including the horizontal ones from bell housing into oil pan, you can try to tap (gently) the oil pan with a rubber mallet to break free the gasket adhesion. If you have cast metal oil pan, there should be a small pocket on both sides of the oil pan that can be used to pry it off with a pry tool. There may be something similar on sheet metal oil pans too.
You are correct. I completely forgot there are various types of the oil pan.
just came across your previous post mentioning about those differences and that 3 bolts from the transmission into the oil pan.
it would be nice to update the thread to point out those differences in the beginning.
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      08-08-2016, 04:24 AM   #108
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I'm thinking I should apply a thin layer of sealant on both sides of the gasket. To those who already used sealant, how's everything holding up?
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      08-08-2016, 12:54 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musa View Post
I'm thinking I should apply a thin layer of sealant on both sides of the gasket. To those who already used sealant, how's everything holding up?
I used Permatex Black on my pan gasket. It's been 8 months and 10,000 miles and she's as dry as the day I put it back together. I highly recommend using sealant.
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      11-04-2016, 07:01 PM   #110
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oil Pan Leak

Great write up..
I think I am experiencing a similar leak on my 2008 328i RWD Manual.
I wonder what this would cost me at the dealer..
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