[Biginboca]

Bolted up the SS Section One secondary cat delete pipes today. Only took a few pics here’s the secondary’s I took out:



Was surprised to see how small the secondary cats are. Looking down inside them all you can see is a screen looks like maybe 200 cel screen but can’t see behind it to know what’s actually inside that engorged chamber:



So far the sound is pretty much unchanged. There’s a light raspy rattle at 2500rpms and that’s about the only change I can detect on a 5 minute test drive. Everywhere else from idle to full throttle I’m not noticing much change in volume. At cold Start it has a slight “attitude” over fully the stock exhaust but it’s very close in volume to the stock exhaust.

As for smell, also not noticing much change. The smell at cold Start is noticable but it was before the SS Cat Delete because I already had no primaries. After warm up it seems like it did before with only secondaries, barley noticable on a walk around and not at all inside the car.

Just as a reminder my current exhaust set up is:

AA Headers
SS Section One Cat Delete
Factory Resonator
Factory Muffler

Will update impressions after a few days. I did some before logs and I’m wondering if there’s any adaptations that have to occur before I do afters?

Does anyone know anything I should do to reset adaptations or how much time to give before doing an after test log?

[E91Swagger]

Thanks...thinking about doing the same (SS Section one /AFE section one) and was worry about the smell and loudness of the setup...please keep us posted.

[Biginboca]

So here’s before and after logs with Dragy on the secondary cat delete. I did 3 runs each then averaged and corrected for the density altitude using an online calculator. There’s gains there probably ~5hp for my set up. I think swapping to a free flowing muffler instead of stock will help make more of this mod also.

picture hosting

[Taskmaster]

Did you reset the adaptations?

Also, yes, there will be a bigger gains with the addition of a true merger and better muffler.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Did you reset the adaptations?

Also, yes, there will be a bigger gains with the addition of a true merger and better muffler.

No, I didn’t reset adaptations. So far I’ve driven the car maybe 23 miles and done like 7-8 full throttle pulls to redline. No procedures to adapt.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

No, I didn’t reset adaptations. So far I’ve driven the car maybe 23 miles and done like 7-8 full throttle pulls to redline. No procedures to adapt.

You can use INPA, Bimmerlogger or the throttle adaptation method.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

You can use INPA, Bimmerlogger or the throttle adaptation method.

Throttle is the ignition on (not running) hold accelerator 30 seconds, correct?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Throttle is the ignition on (not running) hold accelerator 30 seconds, correct?

Correcto - If you have a Kdan cable, download Bimmerlogger free and it has the tool to pull codes and reset adaptations (need a laptop)

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Correcto - If you have a Kdan cable, download Bimmerlogger free and it has the tool to pull codes and reset adaptations (need a laptop)

Great, thanks! I have Carly wish it had the flexibility to reset adaptations. I did the throttle reset and will put some miles on today then redo some fresh logs tomorrow.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Great, thanks! I have Carly wish it had the flexibility to reset adaptations. I did the throttle reset and will put some miles on today then redo some fresh logs tomorrow.

Great that someone is doing some type of logging with these engines.

I would like to express a little caution, without the rest of the engine data this does not tell the whole story.

I've taken logs on the same day, same tune and logged what looked to be two completely different ignition advance curves. These engines start to pull timing with slight changes in ambient temperature.

Heat soak can murder your timing. Also starts to populate your ignition correction tables with data that will pull timing for a while afterword.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Great that someone is doing some type of logging with these engines.

I would like to express a little caution, without the rest of the engine data this does not tell the whole story.

I've taken logs on the same day, same tune and logged what looked to be two completely different ignition advance curves. These engines start to pull timing with slight changes in ambient temperature.

Heat soak can murder your timing. Also starts to populate your ignition correction tables with data that will pull timing for a while afterword.

Good to know thanks. That explains some anomalies I’ve been noticing. Like I’ll get some very consistent back to back data then a run will happen that’s unexplainably off the average, always too slow with too little power. And then the subsequent times for the data I gather are all noticably off after that and show a little less power. Happened today actually. So frustrating!

And I know what you are saying is correct because I’ll never get a random run that’s wicked faster/more powerful. The fast runs are always consistently the same within .002 to .004 seconds and then once in a while a run will happen that’s like ten times that amount slower/weaker. And then after that all my fresh data is showing slower/weaker for a while. I have never once gotten a record run or even a run on the record pace after one of those anomalies. Just realized that after reading your post.

How long does it take for the ecu to stop pulling timing and return to normal, and any explanation as to why is it doing that?

[rjahl]

I'm probably not the best person to answer this.

The ignition advance algorithms are pretty advance and I really don't have enough data or knowedge to answer your question with any degree of confidence.

I'm guessing, it really matters why the timing is pulled. There are so many factors both short term and long term. Short term pulls such as higher IAT or water temps should revert back to normal once the condition is corrected. ignition pulls from a loud knock or fuel type are another issue.

It's my belief that the DME is always listening for noise and making small corrections to the ignition tables. I think these are called KA tables. It's only when a harder knock is recorded does it take an immediate correction. I'd be willing to bet a beer that there are two KA tables a short term and long term. Short term is just that, probably measured in Crank shaft revolutions. Long term, Don't know.

These DMEs have dozens of ignition maps. When calculating the required advance it will select the appropriate base maps (octane, full load, safety etc) compare that against an Opt map, throw in Temps, load, gear, etc and come up with a number. It then looks up the stored ignition tables and will make an adjustment based on history.

In short, use a data logging program and keep tabs on what's happening.

Hassmachine can probably do a better job answering this.

[Biginboca]

Just wanted to add I did reset my adaptations yesterday then did some full throttle pulls to readapt my ecu. This morning I did some new pulls this which I averaged and corrected for DA.

New numbers for 20-60mph 2nd Gear Pull are:

Before Cat Delete:

4.449

After Cat Delete:

4.377

That’s very encouraging more like the 8-10hp gain guys say they saw on a dyno

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Just wanted to add I did reset my adaptations yesterday then did some full throttle pulls to readapt my ecu. This morning I did some new pulls this which I averaged and corrected for DA.

New numbers for 20-60mph 2nd Gear Pull are:

Before Cat Delete:

4.449

After Cat Delete:

4.377

That’s very encouraging more like the 8-10hp gain guys say they saw on a dyno

Does your timer do splits - 20-30 30-40? Any loss of torque?

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Does your timer do splits - 20-30 30-40? Any loss of torque?

Yes it does. You can set it to measure any intervals you want like I used to do 10mph increments but they could be 5 or 1 or whatever you want.

But now I figured what really mattered was total time for a pull because on the street the time to get through a Gear is really what chasing power all boils down to in the end.

Those times above represent a 2nd Gear pull from 2500rpms to 7500rpms btw.

[rjahl]

I've uploaded one of the very few 0-60 data logs that I have. This should give you an idea of the information available directly from our DMEs.

I think you can clearly see that this is a 0-60 run in about 5.3 seconds. Car is a stock E85 3.0i Automatic except for a three stage manifold and self made DME tune.

If you look at this data, you can see the actual lambda, cam spreads, ignition timing, RPMs, Intake manifold pressure, eccentric cam setting and actual etc through the full run. You can probably log another 6 or so values, this is all I took on this particular day.

I had good intake air temperatures but still lost some timing in places. Subsequent tunes corrected most of that. If you look at the Knock signal in bank one you can see some values above 3, that's higher then the thresholds in the tune. As everything else in the DME the thresholds are a full table based on load and RPM. from memory 2 is about the highest value allowed.

Yes, if someone wanted they could probably take these values and build their own tune. Probably not worth much, I'm just an amateur.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I've uploaded one of the very few 0-60 data logs that I have. This should give you an idea of the information available directly from our DMEs.

I think you can clearly see that this is a 0-60 run in about 5.3 seconds. Car is a stock E85 3.0i Automatic except for a three stage manifold and self made DME tune.

If you look at this data, you can see the actual lambda, cam spreads, ignition timing, RPMs, Intake manifold pressure, eccentric cam setting and actual etc through the full run. You can probably log another 6 or so values, this is all I took on this particular day.

I had good intake air temperatures but still lost some timing in places. Subsequent tunes corrected most of that. If you look at the Knock signal in bank one you can see some values above 3, that's higher then the thresholds in the tune. As everything else in the DME the thresholds are a full table based on load and RPM. from memory 2 is about the highest value allowed.

Yes, if someone wanted they could probably take these values and build their own tune. Probably not worth much, I'm just an amateur.

Seeing as how your car is a Turbo I wonder if the tune behavior is the same as with N/A cars and if the timing pull issues are all similar?

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Seeing as how your car is a Turbo I wonder if the tune behavior is the same as with N/A cars and if the timing pull issues are all similar?

It’s just Z4 with n52. Where did you get turbo?

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by W37V

It’s just Z4 with n52. Where did you get turbo?

Found online maybe it’s wrong?

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by W37V

It's just Z4 with n52. Where did you get turbo?

I swapped cars in January. These logs are from my first Z4.

Current car is still under CPO, so taking thing slow.

This car better do better than 5.3 seconds. Hoping for something closer to 4.5.

I have not tried launch control. Probably eat up $100 in tires per run.

Edit: my post did mention that the logs were taken from an E85.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Found online maybe it’s wrong?

Oh crap. I didn't realize he change it. i use my iPhone most of the time to browse on here, so i didn't see his updated garage.

[Biginboca]

On my cars audio these vids are a dead ringer for how my exhaust sounds in person. This is AA Headers, SS Section 1 (Secondary Delete), Stock Resonator, and Stock Muffler.

Cold Start with a light rev to 1k at end. After warm up the exhaust is completely silent at idle just like stock. As you can hear there is a little “attitude” on cold start mostly from the headers...

And here’s some Revs. Note you can’t even hear the car is running in this video before the Revs because it is warmed up.

2 Revs to 3K
2 Revs to 5K
2 Revs to 7k (second 7k rev only went to 6k so I bounced it up to 7k quickly)

Conclusion after driving for a week. The car sounds 90% like a car with stock exhaust. I’m getting much more sound out of my induction side with the AFE CAI and MILV’s than I am out of the exhaust system. I’m not sure I still want to even change to an aftermarket muffler at this point because the exhaust mods work great with my sleeper motif. I figure I should have gained somewhere approaching 30hp while staying almost silent in my usage. The smell is there I’m used to it and like it. It smells like horsepower. Only time I’ve noticed it strong is after slowing to a red light windows down the exhaust catches up to the car for about 10 seconds it smells and then dissipates. I’m fine with it.