[gIzzE]

At 9% apr it is up to you mate.

I am sure you could get 2% above base rate on that sort of loan if you spoke with a broker. That would leave you around £24k balloon.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by yippym

Thanks for all the advice, I have taken a lot of notes and here is my new finance figures which I got through a broker. What you guys think? Does it make a difference if I decrease the baloon and increase the payments? I will sign on the dotted line soon...

Hire purchase agreement

Cash Price = £53995

Cash Deposit = £24000

Balence to Finance = £29995

Term = 36

Monthly Payment = £315.58

Final Payment = £26000

The attached might be useful. The total payable is £61,045.30 and the interest charges are £7050.30

The interesting thing is that you are only paying of £4071.11 of the debt with the monthly payments and the rest is simply funding the interest. This means that after one year you will still owe the same amount as when you started.

[Art Man]

We (myself, NFS and Tisme) have been working on Tisme’s initial spreadsheet to come up with a solution that calculates the monthly outstanding balance based upon the Consumer Credit Regulations (CCR) on the calculation of APR and the estimated early settlement figure – more on that later.

To use this spreadsheet , just complete column D (instructions are in column B), don’t worry if you get errors appearing whilst you entering information, the spreadsheet needs all the data to be entered before a correct figure is calculated. Don’t enter data in the greyed out or boxed cells.

We have tried to accommodate various finance options that are out there, i.e. deferred start, fees added to the balance etc, but it is likely we have missed something. If so, send us a PM and we will see if it can be added.

For example the data within the spreadsheet is for a car with a purchase price £40,000, deposit £5,000, with a final payment £10,000 payable over 48 months, with the first repayment in month 4 (ie no repayment in the first three months). So there are only 44 actual repayments plus 1 final payment.

With many finance agreements there are usually some sort of arrangement fees, purchase etc. The purchase fee is normally paid in the last month, which we have included; other fees are either paid with the first repayment or the final repayment, so we have allowed for this option i.e. the acceptance fee is paid in month 4, along with the first repayment, but the credit fee is paid in period 48 (note they might be called something else, but the principals are the same). On some loans these fees can be included with the repayments. If this is the case set the “Incl in Repy’t” to yes.

Points to watch, if you receive a quote for a 48 month loan with a final balloon repayment, check to see if it is 47 regular repayments with a 1 additional final payment and not 48 regular repayment with a 1 additional final payment, making it a 49 month loan. Also get all the various admin charges. If you can, put this on a portable and fill it in whilst they produce the quote, you soon see if the figures don’t add up!

Finally, there is a column that estimates a settlement figure for CCR loans (below £25,000). This is an estimate, because there is a degree of flexibility on how the lender calculates this figure. The CCR states that the balance can be calculated 28 days after the receipt of the request, plus the lender can defer the 28 days by 1 calendar month or 30 days, so the figures are calculated on:
1. The request being received just after a payment, and
2. Midway through a month, with a 30 day deferment.

We are not saying its foolproof, and if there are any errors, tell us and we try and fix it.

[NFS]

There seems to be a problem with the uploaded file .. so I have also posted it to Rapidshare here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/90143764...ce__final_.xls

Art Man has done a brilliant job (plus original idea from Tisme). This is a really useful tool when considering finance, because it very quickly confirms the APR and shows what you are getting yourself into in terms of early settlment.

[Art Man]

I've just tried it with Firefox and it downloads fine, but with Internet Explorer it doesn't. Anyone got any ideas why this would happen?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Art Man

I've just tried it with Firefox and it downloads fine, but with Internet Explorer it doesn't. Anyone got any ideas why this would happen?

Sorry, none at all. It works OK with my download manager as well, but not with explorer. I tried posting the file myself also and got the same error.

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Sorry, none at all. It works OK with my download manager as well, but not with explorer. I tried posting the file myself also and got the same error.

It loads fine in Safari on the Mac.

Any difference removing the space in the original file name?

I always thought IE was a pile of sh*te.

Viv

[NFS]

Originally Posted by vivekk

It loads fine in Safari on the Mac.

Any difference removing the space in the original file name?

I always thought IE was a pile of sh*te.

Viv

Not working .. when you unzip it the file has no attributes.

[Art Man]

OK there is alot of sh*t about IE, Windows 2003 and can't download zip files on the Internet. Anyway the workaround for me, although bl**dy stupid, seems to work. First download as normal, then change the extension to say ZP. Open the zp file with your zip software - mine is WINZIP, and the BMW Finance.xls is there. Now the funny bit, open the BMW Finance.xls and another zip folder opens with the ZP extension, containing BMW Finance.xls! Open this file and finally an Excel spreadsheet appears.

I think the ZIP folder is compressed on the E90post server and it isn't decompressed when it is downloaded with IE.

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by Art Man

..I think the ZIP folder is compressed on the E90post server and it isn't decompressed when it is downloaded with IE.

Yes. The file does decompress on downloading. Most strange.

Viv

[NFS]

The file is zipped twice !

When you download it - you get bmwfinance.zip.

When you unzip that you get a file with no extension called bmwfinance.

Right click on it, select open, then choose winrar or winzip from the list.

Unzip again to get the excel file.

Bizarre.

This should work, I have renamed it as a pdf. Just download and change the extension to .xls

[Art Man]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

The file is zipped twice !

When you download it - you get bmwfinance.zip.

When you unzip that you get a file with no extension called bmwfinance.

Right click on it, select open, then choose winrar or winzip from the list.

Unzip again to get the excel file.

Bizarre.

This should work, I have renamed it as a pdf. Just download and change the extension to .xls

Works for me

[tisme]

Thats great how the spreadsheet is getting on! I can host it on my server if the access doesn't get sorted.

I'm going to be using it within the next month or so when I start serious negotiation on my new 330D. But, I think I'll put my proposed configuration in the general area for everyone to critique - comments on worthless options and recommendations for new ones.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by tisme

Thats great how the spreadsheet is getting on! I can host it on my server if the access doesn't get sorted.

I'm going to be using it within the next month or so when I start serious negotiation on my new 330D. But, I think I'll put my proposed configuration in the general area for everyone to critique - comments on worthless options and recommendations for new ones.

It would be great if you could put it on your server and post the link for everyone.

[tisme]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

It would be great if you could put it on your server and post the link for everyone.

Done

http://www.redoak.co.uk/BMWFinance.xls

[big pimp]

Hi guys,

here's one for you if you have a couple of minutes to look at it:

Hire-Purchase agreement:
Cash price: £33,684.25
Less Initial rentals / deposit: £3,985.00
Balance of cash price / amount of credit: £29,699.25
Add charges: £7,578.53
First installment of credit arrangement: £125
Second installment: £50
Total charges for credit: £7,753.53
Balance of amount payable : £37,542.78
Total amount payable : £41,473.78

35 monthly rentals £599.99
optional final rental £16,328.13

what i want to know is was this a good deal, just over a year and a bit ago - i was just wondering as for £600 / month i think in todays climate i could be driving more car for similar money?

also, because it is a Hire-purchase agreement, I was told by the sales guy (who no longer works there) that if after 2 years, i wanted to end the agreement early and move onto another car, there would be no issues - is this correct?

many thanks

[NFS]

Originally Posted by big pimp

Hi guys,

here's one for you if you have a couple of minutes to look at it:

Hire-Purchase agreement:
Cash price: £33,684.25
Less Initial rentals / deposit: £3,985.00
Balance of cash price / amount of credit: £29,699.25
Add charges: £7,578.53
First installment of credit arrangement: £125
Second installment: £50
Total charges for credit: £7,753.53
Balance of amount payable : £37,542.78
Total amount payable : £41,473.78

35 monthly rentals £599.99
optional final rental £16,328.13

what i want to know is was this a good deal, just over a year and a bit ago - i was just wondering as for £600 / month i think in todays climate i could be driving more car for similar money?

also, because it is a Hire-purchase agreement, I was told by the sales guy (who no longer works there) that if after 2 years, i wanted to end the agreement early and move onto another car, there would be no issues - is this correct?

many thanks

The APR on this deal is 11.41% - which is on the high side. If you had managed to get 7.5% APR then you would be paying £525 a month and the total interest charge would reduce by £2,445.

The other thing that strikes me is that the final payment is a little optimistic. It's assuming a residual value of 48% after 3 years.

I think there is a danger that you will find yourself having to pay £4k more for the car at the end of the deal than it is worth.

If it's a PCP deal with a guaranteed minimum future value you can simply hand it back

If not then it is possible to break off the deal after you have paid back 50%, this only applies if the finance deal is covered by the consumer credit act and until recently loans over £25K were not.

Your other alternative is to reduce your overall interest cost by paying of the loan early using a personal loan (at around 8% APR) and increasing your deposit.

I did this earlier in the year and will save quite a few thousand in interest as a result.

[big pimp]

Originally Posted by NFS

The APR on this deal is 11.41% - which is on the high side. If you had managed to get 7.5% APR then you would be paying £525 a month and the total interest charge would reduce by £2,445.

The other thing that strikes me is that the final payment is a little optimistic. It's assuming a residual value of 48% after 3 years.

I think there is a danger that you will find yourself having to pay £4k more for the car at the end of the deal than it is worth.

If it's a PCP deal with a guaranteed minimum future value you can simply hand it back

If not then it is possible to break off the deal after you have paid back 50%, this only applies if the finance deal is covered by the consumer credit act and until recently loans over £25K were not.

Your other alternative is to reduce your overall interest cost by paying of the loan early using a personal loan (at around 8% APR) and increasing your deposit.

I did this earlier in the year and will save quite a few thousand in interest as a result.

thanks very much for your help mate.

the 48%residual value was the guaranteed minimum they would offer me for the car at the end of my agreement - they said that would be what the car was worth to them minimum - with regular servicing etc through them it may be worth more to them?

all I really want to know is, should I hold on to the car (as i'm paying half the rental - my work is paying the other half) or would I get out of this deal, and maybe onto another for similar money (£600 / month) getting a better car (even though there is nothing wrong with my own!!) without getting 'stung' in any way?

[gIzzE]

When did you take it out? Hopw many months have you paid??

Without wanting to put a dampner on things, it says that the interest is front loaded, now at 11% apr that means you would only get back to what you borrowed after about 23 months, right now your car is booking at around £17k trade in, unless you see the end of the agreement out you will only get book price.

Let's say you took it out in October 2007 and have paid 14 months.

Your agreement is front loaded....

Balance of cash price / amount of credit: £29,699.25
Add charges: £7,578.53

Including charges you owed....

Balance of amount payable : £37,542.78



Now if you have made 14 paymenst of £599 you have paid off £8386, meaning you still owe £29156.

Now BMW may give you a discount based on how many months through you are, on a hire purchase though they may not, you sure it is a hire purchase and not a lease purchase??



Long story short, you will get around £17k for your car as a trade in, and will have to put in up to £12,000 to get out of it right now. I would concede that staying in for the full term is the thing to do an enjoy it knowing you can hand it back in 2 years time owing £16k on it when it will be worth around £8k to them.

[big pimp]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

When did you take it out? Hopw many months have you paid??

Without wanting to put a dampner on things, it says that the interest is front loaded, now at 11% apr that means you would only get back to what you borrowed after about 23 months, right now your car is booking at around £17k trade in, unless you see the end of the agreement out you will only get book price.

Let's say you took it out in October 2007 and have paid 14 months.

Your agreement is front loaded....

Balance of cash price / amount of credit: £29,699.25
Add charges: £7,578.53

Including charges you owed....

Balance of amount payable : £37,542.78



Now if you have made 14 paymenst of £599 you have paid off £8386, meaning you still owe £29156.

Now BMW may give you a discount based on how many months through you are, on a hire purchase though they may not, you sure it is a hire purchase and not a lease purchase??



Long story short, you will get around £17k for your car as a trade in, and will have to put in up to £12,000 to get out of it right now. I would concede that staying in for the full term is the thing to do an enjoy it knowing you can hand it back in 2 years time owing £16k on it when it will be worth around £8k to them.

hey mate - I actually did get the car October 07!

like I say, I have no problems driving the car until end of lease - it's a fantastic car, and I really do love it.
It's definitely a Hire-Purchase agreement - it's what it says on the first page of my agreement!

I will enjoy it even more now, giving it back to them at the end of my agreement and being able to walk away owing nothing - especially after how I was treated over the cracked 225 wheels!

all I was wondering was what it would cost me to hand it back now, as such - and knowing it'd cost me in the region of £12k means i'll definitely be holding on to it until the end!

thanks again for all your help gizzee & NFS

[NFS]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

I would concede that staying in for the full term is the thing to do an enjoy it knowing you can hand it back in 2 years time owing £16k on it when it will be worth around £8k to them.

I agree.

Out of interest I have plugged your data into the spreadsheet posted in this thread, so you can see the likely settlement costs if you exit early.

[doctorbob]

I've just been offered 3.2% flat on a 3 year HP (apr 7.6%); and about 10% on a PCP. apparently rates are on their way up again. Stealer said rates from BMW up 0.2% tomorrow.