Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?

iScream · 08-20-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavel

I also had a look at BMW NAs webpage, I could'nt beleave that the Pre 29.2 statement about the engine is still there!!!!!

Someone please preserve a screenshot of that page.

slubu · 08-20-2008, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

Someone please preserve a screenshot of that page.

Way ahead of you sir:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=46

iScream · 08-20-2008, 10:19 AM

One of our problems is that we cannot find very many stock pre-29.2 models to test drive. Part of this is caused by the fact that we are all posting in a thread that is dedicated to this problem, in a forum that is dedicated to tuning. That is why I posted a request (with little success) to my local forum.

We need a thread on the main E90 forum calling pre-29.2 owners to action, for our benefit and their own good.

iScream · 08-20-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slubu

Way ahead of you sir:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=46

Thanks. I just printed it out!

iScream · 08-20-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

One of our problems is that we cannot find very many stock pre-29.2 models to test drive. Part of this is caused by the fact that we are all posting in a thread that is dedicated to this problem, in a forum that is dedicated to tuning. That is why I posted a request (with little success) to my local forum.

We need a thread on the main E90 forum calling pre-29.2 owners to action, for our benefit and their own good.

Replying to myself LOL

I started the thread here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165075

We'll see what happens.

mistermojorizin · 08-20-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Oh the days of civ pro....diversity jurisdiction.....

.....worst semester of my life.

Suing would be very difficult--IMO, you have a better chance on a case by case basis trying out your luck with your dealer/BMWNA.....

Everything that goes down in federal court seems to take forever.....

don't forget eerie.

rubber_ducky · 08-20-2008, 02:16 PM

Here's a dumb question... won't a dyno show that peak torque is reached at say 3k rpm as opposed to the advertised 1.4k? Isn't that measurable proof?

gmazet · 08-20-2008, 02:23 PM

would be good if we started hitting the various press outlets with complaints - motor trend, road&track, automobile, etc..

BzzzBom · 08-20-2008, 02:35 PM

I live in L.A. and have a 2007 pre-v29.2 car. I recently had the HPFP replaced and asked the dealer not to upgrade the software. Let me know if I can help.

dmboone25 · 08-20-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

don't forget eerie.

Dear God....I thought I had blocked it out !

dmboone25 · 08-20-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmazet

would be good if we started hitting the various press outlets with complaints - motor trend, road&track, automobile, etc..

I think someone tried that already--got some sort of "call your dealer" response....maybe from MT? Can't remember....

arcanum · 08-20-2008, 03:46 PM

I live in Houston w/a pre29.2 '08 E92 MT. Would be happy to help if I can.

iScream · 08-20-2008, 03:55 PM

I think I may have found a way to determine your version number without the dealer's assistance. This is just one data point, so don't get all excited.

First, see this URL:
http://www.mabm.fr/forums/index.php?...20&#entry59416

As that guy suggests, it's probably the year and day of the software. Yeah, there are probably exceptions to the rule, but I wonder if this technique doesn't apply to most of us.

When you do the hidden menu trick, you get a "FunctionalSoftwareVersion" under the Applikation tab. Mine says 008.087.001, and I know for sure I have 29.2 because my dealership told me so. That would be March 27, 2008, which sounds about right for 29.2. How about you guys? Any v30'ers care to report, as well as pre-29.2'ers?

meyergru · 08-20-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

I think I may have found a way to determine your version number without the dealer's assistance. This is just one data point, so don't get all excited.

When you do the hidden menu trick, you get a "FunctionalSoftwareVersion" under the Applikation tab. Mine says 008.087.001, and I know for sure I have 29.2 because my dealership told me so. That would be March 27, 2008, which sounds about right for 29.2. How about you guys? Any v30'ers care to report, as well as pre-29.2'ers?

I don't think that this is indicative of the DME software version, as this is just one single software revision (which one?) of the 40 to 70 different units.

When the car has been updated, all depends on why this was done. Theorectically, it might occur that you still have your first DME software revision, even if you have got an upgrade with a diagnostic unit at Progman level v30.x, if the reason for updating was a defective seat memory, for example (because in that case, updating the DME may not have been neccesary according to the Progman "measurement plan").

See this posting for an explanation.

Matter-of-fact, given the emphasis that BMW seems to lay on its counter-tuning DME v29.2, a DME update may as well be contained in ANY current measurement plan...

iScream · 08-20-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyergru

I don't think that this is indicative of the DME software version, as this is just one single software revision (which one?) of the 40 to 70 different units.

When the car has been updated, all depends on why this was done. Theorectically, it might occur that you still have your first DME software revision, even if you have got an upgrade with a diagnostic unit at Progman level v30.x, if the reason for updating was a defective seat memory, for example (because in that case, updating the DME may not have been neccesary according to the Progman "measurement plan").

See this posting for an explanation.

Matter-of-fact, given the emphasis that BMW seems to lay on its counter-tuning DME v29.2, a DME update may as well be contained in ANY current measurement plan...

Yours is probably an exception as well. You are back on 27.x now, right? (Lucky guy.) What is your FunctionalSoftwareVersion reading?

I am just thinking that while there will be exceptions out there, the regular average joe 335i owner can use this to predict their software version with a fairly high probability. If there turn out to be all kinds of outliers, then I guess I'd be wrong.

stressdoc · 08-20-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

Here's a dumb question... won't a dyno show that peak torque is reached at say 3k rpm as opposed to the advertised 1.4k? Isn't that measurable proof?

I wonder if Shiv could help with something like this -- a comparison of dyno charts.

meyergru · 08-20-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I wonder if Shiv could help with something like this -- a comparison of dyno charts.

That would imply the problem to be static, that is, too low torque at a given RPM. A lagged car still has 400 Nm at 1300 RPM, it's just that the torque is not there immediately. In a dyno sweep, you slowly go from low to high RPM. This takes a few seconds, so I doubt you could see any difference in the chart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

Yours is probably an exception as well. You are back on 27.x now, right? (Lucky guy.) What is your FunctionalSoftwareVersion reading?

I am just thinking that while there will be exceptions out there, the regular average joe 335i owner can use this to predict their software version with a fairly high probability. If there turn out to be all kinds of outliers, then I guess I'd be wrong.

Right, I am back on v27.x, but this was a full reset to factory revisions at my car's build date. Thus, my car should show up as a non-upgraded v27.x. However, depending of what "FunctionalSoftwareVersion" actually shows, it could be that there are several Progman versions that have the same "FunctionalSoftwareVersion".

For example, I know for sure that the USB audio interface software was the same in at least v27 and v28.

But, I will go see tomorrow which FunctionalSoftwareVersion I have.

mistermojorizin · 08-20-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iScream

I think I may have found a way to determine your version number without the dealer's assistance. This is just one data point, so don't get all excited.

First, see this URL:
http://www.mabm.fr/forums/index.php?...20&#entry59416

As that guy suggests, it's probably the year and day of the software. Yeah, there are probably exceptions to the rule, but I wonder if this technique doesn't apply to most of us.

When you do the hidden menu trick, you get a "FunctionalSoftwareVersion" under the Applikation tab. Mine says 008.087.001, and I know for sure I have 29.2 because my dealership told me so. That would be March 27, 2008, which sounds about right for 29.2. How about you guys? Any v30'ers care to report, as well as pre-29.2'ers?

this trick doesn't work on the e90/e92. The string that you can use the chart to convert to your progman number doesn't show up in the e9x hidden idrive menus. i forget exactly which string it was, but i remember people with other bmw models were using this trick. but when the 3 series guys tried it they didn't have the same menu.

edit: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=182514 found it, you can use it to check the progman of your 06 5 series.

stressdoc · 08-20-2008, 05:27 PM

What I had in mind was using a dyno to doc lag. A graph from idle start up to WOT. Not sure if this is feasible, but I figured that if anyone could do it and present useful graphics Shiv would be a good place to start.

A side by side drag race should also demonstrate the same phenomenon. Start from a base idle, no brake torquing etc. and see how a pre- and post- 29.2 perform.

mistermojorizin · 08-20-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressdoc

What I had in mind was using a dyno to doc lag. A graph from idle start up to WOT. Not sure if this is feasible, but I figured that if anyone could do it and present useful graphics Shiv would be a good place to start.

A side by side drag race should also demonstrate the same phenomenon. Start from a base idle, no brake torquing etc. and see how a pre- and post- 29.2 perform.

on the dynos i always see that it takes approx 1,000 rpm for the torque to build (e.g, the torque starts increasing at 1,500 rpm and reaches full torque by 2,500 rpm). the problem is, the dyno doesn't show you how long it takes the car to go that first 1,000 rpm. I think the lagging cars, just take longer on that first 1,000 rpm.

OR maybe on the lagging cars, the torque doesn't even start building for a second. the dyno doesn't show 1) time and 2) throttle position

ezatnova · 08-20-2008, 06:38 PM

Alright guys, we have two generous people offering to help us, just above, in two posts. One from HOUSTON. One from LOS ANGELES!

LETS GO GUYS. SOMEONE HERE HAS TO BE NEAR THEM!

ezatnova · 08-20-2008, 06:42 PM

Time to bitch some more.
So, I never got a call back from the "north east Regional Rep" people. I will call Eileen back tomorrow. I DID get another call back from our boy Dan. Get this! I sent in another letter (I copied it into a post a page or so back) to BMW NA. Well, DAN calls saying they give the letters to HIM! HA! So, I was like like..."well, nothing new since I called you five days ago! My car still blows!"
He said "Tell your dealer to get a meeting with the field rep set up. That's all I can suggest. Oh, and STILL ONLY YOU AND THE PERSON WHO PUT MY NAME ON THE BOARDS ARE THE ONLY TWO TO CALL ME ABOUT THIS PROBLEM." ( <- SAD - come on lazy people ).
So anyway, I drove to my dealer and said the the Service Manager. "I want to set up an appointment with the field rep" and he says "well, no, we already sent him your FASTA data, so he knows. That's all we should do."
COCKGOBBLERS.
USELESS.
FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A CAR I WOULDN'T HAVE BOUGHT LIKE THIS.

08-20-2008, 10:19 AM	#751
iScream solid @ 153, no, 155mph! 15 Rep 335 Posts Drives: '07/'09/'13 335, '16 340ix Join Date: May 2008 Location: Washington, DC iTrader: (0)	One of our problems is that we cannot find very many stock pre-29.2 models to test drive. Part of this is caused by the fact that we are all posting in a thread that is dedicated to this problem, in a forum that is dedicated to tuning. That is why I posted a request (with little success) to my local forum. We need a thread on the main E90 forum calling pre-29.2 owners to action, for our benefit and their own good.
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08-20-2008, 02:16 PM	#755
rubber_ducky Colonel 386 Rep 2,989 Posts Drives: roach coach Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: boston-ish iTrader: (21)	Here's a dumb question... won't a dyno show that peak torque is reached at say 3k rpm as opposed to the advertised 1.4k? Isn't that measurable proof?
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08-20-2008, 02:23 PM	#756
gmazet Captain 308 Rep 860 Posts Drives: Broken 2020 M2C Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hunterdon County, NJ, USA iTrader: (0)	would be good if we started hitting the various press outlets with complaints - motor trend, road&track, automobile, etc.. __________________ Gary Current: 2020 F87 LBB\|Exec\|DCT\|slicktop Other: 2017 F15 35i,\|MPPK, 2012 F25 28i Past: 2008 E92tt 6MT, 2001 E46 6MT 2009 Z06 1997 Camaro SS 6MT
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08-20-2008, 02:35 PM	#757
BzzzBom Major 93 Rep 1,216 Posts Drives: 05 R53 MINI / 09 335i Coupe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	I live in L.A. and have a 2007 pre-v29.2 car. I recently had the HPFP replaced and asked the dealer not to upgrade the software. Let me know if I can help.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-20-2008, 03:46 PM	#760
arcanum New Member 4 Rep 21 Posts Drives: 2008 335 Coupe Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	I live in Houston w/a pre29.2 '08 E92 MT. Would be happy to help if I can.
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08-20-2008, 03:55 PM	#761
iScream solid @ 153, no, 155mph! 15 Rep 335 Posts Drives: '07/'09/'13 335, '16 340ix Join Date: May 2008 Location: Washington, DC iTrader: (0)	I think I may have found a way to determine your version number without the dealer's assistance. This is just one data point, so don't get all excited. First, see this URL: http://www.mabm.fr/forums/index.php?...20&#entry59416 As that guy suggests, it's probably the year and day of the software. Yeah, there are probably exceptions to the rule, but I wonder if this technique doesn't apply to most of us. When you do the hidden menu trick, you get a "FunctionalSoftwareVersion" under the Applikation tab. Mine says 008.087.001, and I know for sure I have 29.2 because my dealership told me so. That would be March 27, 2008, which sounds about right for 29.2. How about you guys? Any v30'ers care to report, as well as pre-29.2'ers?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-20-2008, 05:27 PM	#767
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	What I had in mind was using a dyno to doc lag. A graph from idle start up to WOT. Not sure if this is feasible, but I figured that if anyone could do it and present useful graphics Shiv would be a good place to start. A side by side drag race should also demonstrate the same phenomenon. Start from a base idle, no brake torquing etc. and see how a pre- and post- 29.2 perform. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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08-20-2008, 06:38 PM	#769
ezatnova Colonel 97 Rep 2,188 Posts Drives: C63 AMG Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Chester, PA iTrader: (5)	Alright guys, we have two generous people offering to help us, just above, in two posts. One from HOUSTON. One from LOS ANGELES! LETS GO GUYS. SOMEONE HERE HAS TO BE NEAR THEM!
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08-20-2008, 06:42 PM	#770
ezatnova Colonel 97 Rep 2,188 Posts Drives: C63 AMG Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Chester, PA iTrader: (5)	Venting Time to bitch some more. So, I never got a call back from the "north east Regional Rep" people. I will call Eileen back tomorrow. I DID get another call back from our boy Dan. Get this! I sent in another letter (I copied it into a post a page or so back) to BMW NA. Well, DAN calls saying they give the letters to HIM! HA! So, I was like like..."well, nothing new since I called you five days ago! My car still blows!" He said "Tell your dealer to get a meeting with the field rep set up. That's all I can suggest. Oh, and STILL ONLY YOU AND THE PERSON WHO PUT MY NAME ON THE BOARDS ARE THE ONLY TWO TO CALL ME ABOUT THIS PROBLEM." ( <- SAD - come on lazy people ). So anyway, I drove to my dealer and said the the Service Manager. "I want to set up an appointment with the field rep" and he says "well, no, we already sent him your FASTA data, so he knows. That's all we should do." COCKGOBBLERS. USELESS. FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A CAR I WOULDN'T HAVE BOUGHT LIKE THIS.
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