[E90angeleyes]

Hey all,

I know that the E90 uses the M57 and that the F10 uses the N57. Just looking for some comparisons here. Is it true that the older M57 makes more power than the newer N57?

[robnitro]

535d usa: single turbo like m57 30d
540d usa: similar setup to m57 35d with compound turbos
It's like they downgraded a step ugh

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by E90angeleyes

Hey all,

I know that the E90 uses the M57 and that the F10 uses the N57. Just looking for some comparisons here. Is it true that the older M57 makes more power than the newer N57?

I went from a 2011 e90 335d sport package to a base 2016 535d. The newer car has what seems to be a completely redesigned engine as well as being a premium 5 series chassis.

Major differences include a different fuel pump relocated to the back of the engine supposedly for improved pedestrian collision safety. The newer pump is a CP4 while the older is a more robust CP3, although BMW and Bosch seem to have solved some of the catastrophic issues of earlier CP4's.

The 5-er gets 20% better fuel economy the way I drive and is supposedly faster to 60 mph than the e90. Its also much more comfortable.

I miss the twin turbo e90 for its "right there" throttle response and sporty feel, but the 535d seems better in almost every other way. I wish I could have kept the e90 but needed a down payment for the 5-er.

[rkstar9]

n57 tuned with single turbo makes more torque than m57 tuned w sequential turbos.

on F10 transmission is disengaged on idle. it also runs on bare minimum to keel engine running. resulting in rougher idle than M57

Engine mounts on F10 are 50 bucks a piece.

Glow plug module is 2 screw removal from top of engine. (slightly bigger than pack of cigarettes.)

[RL18]

If you want something that you can turn into a fast car that has a great aftermarket for suspension and modifications in general, I'd choose the e90 m57. It's also setup to make impressive power with stock turbos and with just a lp turbo upgrade you can make serious power. Not mention its more nimble and more fun with rwd. Also it has a cast iron block vs the n57 which is aluminum which I'd think it would be able to hold more power.

If you want something comfortable that'll cruise, ride nicer, get better mpg, has an 8 speed, has more room I'd get the 535d. Of course you can make some serious power if you wanted too but you'll need more money to do it. Might be quicker in a straight line due to awd but not on a track.. and it's not as nimble and I've heard the suspension isn't that great and the steering feels disconnected.

I feel like people make it like these cars are very similar but I see 335d as more track/performance orientated car vs the 535d as the comfortable/cruiser type car... two different cars if you ask me.

[Pierre Louis]

The 2009-2011 North American 335d's have aluminum blocks, not cast-iron.

[robnitro]

Originally Posted by rkstar9

n57 tuned with single turbo makes more torque than m57 tuned w sequential turbos.

Idle disengage is cool. Supposedly 6HP can do it too but they didn't implement it.
Idle in D I see 1.1 l/h, N 0.8 l/h. That would save a lot sitting at red lights!

No. M57 does more TQ and HP with stock turbos.
Where did you get your info?

Here I'm comparing popular tunes with deletes here.

Malone
M57 Stg2.5 340whp/555wtq
Stg 2.9 355whp/648wtq
N57 325/536

Chiptuning.ca (JR)
Both engines with delete tunes with stock turbos
M57 Stg 2.5 344hp/543ftlb
S 2.8 374/606
N57 302/523

BPC
M57 358/559

N57 308/520

[E90angeleyes]

robnitro As far as there I know there is no 540d in the US? Also, I thought the M57 was in the E90 335D/E60 535D and the N57 was in the F10 535D.

Pierre Louis Thank you for your reply, this is the type of response I was looking for.

rkstar9 But which one performs better stock? 50 bucks a piece per engine mount compared to what? I'm new to diesels, YES I WILL search about the glow plug module, but can you please describe what this is for me too and if you are implying whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

RL18 Thanks for your reply, that seems understandable. So you are implying the M57 is more tuner friendly, yes? Also, what is a lp turbo upgrade?

I should have put this in the OP, but from what I understand the F10 535D makes 255 bhp, 413 lb/ft, while the E90 335D makes 282 bhp and 428 lb/ft.

[rkstar9]

Originally Posted by robnitro

Idle disengage is cool. Supposedly 6HP can do it too but they didn't implement it.
Idle in D I see 1.1 l/h, N 0.8 l/h. That would save a lot sitting at red lights!

It really makes the stop start function seem superfluous.

DUDMD found more torque on his 535d, than 335d. That's without sequential turbos.. which bring up the torque even higher.

Originally Posted by E90angeleyes

rkstar9 But which one performs better stock? 50 bucks a piece per engine mount compared to what? I'm new to diesels, YES I WILL search about the glow plug module, but can you please describe what this is for me too and if you are implying whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

Stock M57 with sequential turbos will outperform N57 with single turbo.
Stock N57 with sequential turbos will out perform the M57 with sequential turbos.

So for the purpose of this discussion unless you are one of the lucky ones in the USA with a 540d (european 535d) the M57 will perform better for ya.

Glow plug module is a common wear item. Every 80k or so.

I was quoting prices from FCP euro corteco brand 50 bucks a piece, oem brand for 335d is 110 bucks a piece.

[Yozh]

USA 540d is still an N57 with a VNT slug, same as 535d. Numbers are nothing to do with motor in USA it’s just a trim level.

[RL18]

"RL18 Thanks for your reply, that seems understandable. So you are implying the M57 is more tuner friendly, yes? Also, what is a lp turbo upgrade"


Yes I would say so. And lp turbo is the big turbo.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by rkstar9

So for the purpose of this discussion unless you are one of the lucky ones in the USA with a 540d (european 535d) the M57 will perform better for ya.

This may be true for the engine only, but a newer 5-series (f10, g30) includes the fabulous 8 speed ZF automatic which may explain some of the improved acceleration and fuel economy over the e90 with the older 6 speed automatic.

The 2016 535d came standard with the "sport" version of the ZF 8 speed, which includes shift paddles.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

This may be true for the engine only, but a newer 5-series (f10, g30) includes the fabulous 8 speed ZF automatic which may explain some of the improved acceleration and fuel economy over the e90 with the older 6 speed automatic.

The 2016 535d came standard with the "sport" version of the ZF 8 speed, which includes shift paddles.

I had a loaner 2019 x3 m40i with the 8 speed zf and it was amazing to drive around. Especially on the highway cause you can comfortably cruise at 100mph and still get great fuel mileage.

I feel like what some are missing about the zf 8 with these diesels is 1st and 2nd would be near useless with these diesels deleted making a lot of power... just like how 1st in the 6hp28 is useless with our deleted m57s. So now what's the advantage? One more gear? I think improved acceleration with the 535d is from the awd not the 8 speed.

[robnitro]

Final drive gear taller helps mpg, but acceleration wise both have similar ratios. Narrower gears are useless on diesels with wide peak hp curves, but help peaky gas engines.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by robnitro

Final drive gear taller helps mpg, but acceleration wise both have similar ratios. Narrower gears are useless on diesels with wide peak hp curves, but help peaky gas engines.

Exactly what I was getting at I would love that final gear on the highway though.

[Pierre Louis]

acceleration times I believe are similar for RWD and AWD 535d's - the AWD is .1 second faster to 60 mph, with the same 1/4 mile time but 2 mph slower:

BMW 535d 0-60 times
xDrive 4dr All-wheel Drive Sedan, 255 hp turbo, 5.7 sec, 14.2 @ 82 mph
Base 4dr Rear-wheel Drive Sedan, 255 hp turbo, 5.8 sec, 14.2 @ 84 mph

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

acceleration times I believe are similar for RWD and AWD 535d's - the AWD is .1 second faster to 60 mph, with the same 1/4 mile time but 2 mph slower:

BMW 535d 0-60 times
xDrive 4dr All-wheel Drive Sedan, 255 hp turbo, 5.7 sec, 14.2 @ 82 mph
Base 4dr Rear-wheel Drive Sedan, 255 hp turbo, 5.8 sec, 14.2 @ 84 mph

and from the same source:
BMW 335d 0-60 6 - 6.1 sec 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 89 mph

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

and from the same source:
BMW 335d 0-60 6 - 6.1 sec 1/4 mile 15.2 @ 89 mph

Curious; virtually all other tests show 1/4 mile in 14.2 . What's up with autotk?
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...5641/bmw-335d/
https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/

And autotk is down or something...

[Thecastle]

I’ll pipe in an opinion having both owned a 2011 335d, tuned with sports package, driven many 2014-2016 535d and owning now a 550i....

Hands down the e90 is a more fun to drive, sharper handling, immediate car. If you prioritize fun to drive and driving satisfaction then the 335d is your car. The twin turbos and the engines immediately responsive nature, as well as buttoned down suspension, tossabilty, and smaller size make it a fantastic traffic dissection tool. The downside, it’s not as quiet, not as spacious, doesn’t ride as well as the f10. It’s like the puppy that always wants to please. I did mod my suspension to eliminate pot hole explosions and the bouncy nature of the stock e90 sport package,

The f10 is more like the ultimate wafting machine. It’s so much quieter, smoother, and a significantly nicer interior. It’s a totally different driving experience. If your life revolves around sitting in traffic, and lots of driving, the f10 is a much nicer place to be. But it’s downside is the car is big, harder to weave through traffic, gets wobbly at the limit and generally says are you sure you want to do this.. it’s is not a performance car, it’s the first of the new generation of non sporty bmws. On the plus side they got the emissions to be reliable. But there are lots of,fuel pump blow ups. Adaptive cruise control takes the stress out of inconsistent drivers and slow stop and go traffic. Use it a lot.

A deleted 335d engine wise is more reliable than a deleted 535d. Stock for stock on the Dyno the 335/535d have about the same power, but the after market support is better for the 335. I am seeing big turbos now for the 535d, which means more peak power, but more lag and loss of low end response. Twin turbos is better, but more problematic and more expensive to upgrade.

Me I have a 550i xdrive, would love to have found a 535d, but after a year of searching could only find 2 cars that sold before I could snap them up with the options I wanted. Namely, adaptive cruise control, m-sport, luxury active seating, Harmon kardon, comfort access, dynamic handling package, and etc. easier to find a 550i with all of those features as most came pretty loaded, lots of stripo 535ds not many loaded ones.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by RL18

I had a loaner 2019 x3 m40i with the 8 speed zf and it was amazing to drive around. Especially on the highway cause you can comfortably cruise at 100mph and still get great fuel mileage.

I feel like what some are missing about the zf 8 with these diesels is 1st and 2nd would be near useless with these diesels deleted making a lot of power... just like how 1st in the 6hp28 is useless with our deleted m57s. So now what's the advantage? One more gear? I think improved acceleration with the 535d is from the awd not the 8 speed.

Yeah, I had an x3 m40i loaner in Colorado and drove it back and forth between Estes Park and Fort Collins to visit my broke down x5m and really liked it to. It was fun to drive through the mountains. I hate to say it, bmws best cars are their suvs now a days... the 3 series stopped being great with the e90 and is now a high tech luxury Camry with rear wheel drive... I guess it’s what people want... but bmw is doing their best work in their modern suvs.

[RL18]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Yeah, I had an x3 m40i loaner in Colorado and drove it back and forth between Estes Park and Fort Collins to visit my broke down x5m and really liked it to. It was fun to drive through the mountains. I hate to say it, bmws best cars are their suvs now a days... the 3 series stopped being great with the e90 and is now a high tech luxury Camry with rear wheel drive... I guess it's what people want... but bmw is doing their best work in their modern suvs.

I agree. That trans makes that x3 great I think. The audio system was also surprisingly good for stock. I'd actually consider the x3m after driving that m40i. Needs more power for me though. Pretty crazy that it pops the way it does with the stock exhaust too hah... had some fun scaring people with it.

[kydiesel35]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

A deleted 335d engine wise is more reliable than a deleted 535d.

Thecastle Can you please elaborate? What makes the 335d a more reliable deleted build than N57. I'll be going down this road soon. Thanks.