[cb1111]

Originally Posted by zeenon53

Great post, are you an attorney? I am going to have to quote this for use on other forums.

No, but I've been involved with this for a long time.

The part of the MM act that everyone likes to toss around was enacted because, IIRC, a vacuum cleaner manufacturer required the use of OE bags. The act kept a manufacturer fromrefusing warranty service based on the mere fact that a non-OE replacement part was used - ie a "no-name" vacuum cleaner bag as long as that bag met the specs set forth by the manufacturer.

The act further clarified that the manufacturer could refuse service if they could show that the aftermarked bag caused the damage OR that the bag was not substatially similar to the OE bag and that this COULD have caused the damage - for example - that the decreased filtering caused by aftermarket bag caused the motor to overheat or get too much dust.

Accordingly, once the manufacturer has shown that the aftermarket bag could have caused the damage, the burden then moves to you to proove that it didn't cause the problem.

By definition, any "performance" part is not substantially similarl to OE and a manufacturer can point to that to prevail.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by dcorn

Damn, it's like there are constant reminders on this site of why we shouldn't go to BMW Fairfax. ...

This whole issue with BMW and warranties is beginning to sound like Mitsubishi when the Evo VIII first came to the US. The dealerships were completely voiding warranties for every possible mod, even a turbo timer or boost gauge.

Wasn't it Tischer that killed Prowess Symphony's warranty. It seems he took my advice and quit posting here.

[Cptn Mo 703]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Wasn't it Tischer that killed Prowess Symphony's warranty. It seems he took my advice and quit posting here.

oh yea where did he go??? and what happened with his car?

[M3-ADDICT]

Word on the street is, Auria got his warranty back.

[ak335]

yes, thats what it seems like, i called multiple times and left a message saying i want in writing why and what will be not covered under warranty in the future, after that i got a call this afternoon. The Tech and my SA didn't properly address my situation and what was really going on.


She calls back and says, Auria im sorry but you DO have warranty, she was explaining that they were not going to fix my limp mode issue because my car was not stock at the time, so im going to have to put my stock exhaust on. The warranty was just voided for THAT limp mode issue, So when i put my stock exhaust back on she said i will have no issue.


So im really hoping that what she is now telling me is in fact the truth, that i do have my warranty but it was just denied that once.

I hope this makes sense. but after all this i don't believe i will be visiting bmw of fairfax for any of my visits

[Raja Ventureshield]

Auria,

just admit it. you muscled your way in and got ur way. lol.

Great to know you got it back. Wheew that was real close call there buddy.

[rav7ks]

Good to hear you got your warranty back !
We should make a list of dealers that will hassle those of us that mod their cars.
I visit Russel BMW in Ellicott city- they have been so good to me, for instance I broke a steering wheel harness plug and they tried to get it covered under warranty for me.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Cptn Mo 703

oh yea where did he go??? and what happened with his car?

Originally Posted by cb1111

Wasn't it Tischer that killed Prowess Symphony's warranty. It seems he took my advice and quit posting here.

Im still around but moving onto house shopping and leaving the car alone for a while.

Im still fighting with bmw to get the FALSE mods taken off my file. They still have it listed that I had a blow off valve and exhaust system which I never at any point on the car ever. They just made stuff up to get out of replacing the trans, which was fine anyway.

The rep at bmwna has not returned my calls since I asked for a warranty explanation in writing, and for an explanation of how/why false information appeared on my file when there are pictures of my car that bmwna has that doesnt match the file.

Yes I had an intake on the car, but bmw literally just invented that I had a blow off valve and dp's when never at any point did I have that on the car nor can bmwna explain to me why the pictures of my car that the dealership took showing the intake, doesnt show a blow off valve or dp's yet my file claims I have these.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by ak335

yes, thats what it seems like, i called multiple times and left a message saying i want in writing why and what will be not covered under warranty in the future, after that i got a call this afternoon. The Tech and my SA didn't properly address my situation and what was really going on.


She calls back and says, Auria im sorry but you DO have warranty, she was explaining that they were not going to fix my limp mode issue because my car was not stock at the time, so im going to have to put my stock exhaust on. The warranty was just voided for THAT limp mode issue, So when i put my stock exhaust back on she said i will have no issue.


So im really hoping that what she is now telling me is in fact the truth, that i do have my warranty but it was just denied that once.

I hope this makes sense. but after all this i don't believe i will be visiting bmw of fairfax for any of my visits

The issue here appeared to be that few people, including the people at dealerships, fail to understand the difference between refusing warranty service on a failure and "voiding the warranty."

A dealership is well within their rights (and actually has an obligation to the manufacturer) to deny warranty repairs on a failure if they believe that the failure was caused by a non OE part (which could include an OE part added after the car was built - for example - adding xenons to a car originally delivered with halogens; even if all BMW parts were used.)

On the other end of the spectrum is "voiding the warranty" - an extremely drastic step taken by the manufacturer because a car was so severely abused or modified that the manufacturer believes that ANY future failure will be caused by the prior abuse or mods. IIRC, Mitsu did that a few years ago with cars that they believed were tracked (and had some sort of proof showing that.)

The people at the dealership often don't know better, are pissed at the customer or believe that the customer is an idiot and will make an entry in the computer that effectively implies that the warranty is "void."

If the customer takes this without complaint, then the customer is effectively screwed - the car is branded as trash and the resale value plummets.

Often, as in this case, a calm call to the dealership requesting an explanation in writing causes the dealership to backpedal.

I do have to get on my soapbox though about what this teaches us.

While none of this should deter you from modding your car, you must be prepared - both mentally and monetarily - to pay for the unintended consequences of your mods.

Before you make any mod, research it carefully and seek out pitfalls. Ignore the groupies that say "just do it," and make your own determination. Be cautious and weigh the benefits against the negatives. I might also discuss any planned mods with the dealership and determine what problems might arise.

[pseto]

Originally Posted by rav7ks

We should make a list of dealers that will hassle those of us that mod their cars.

Pretty hard to get good data on that b/c its really comes down to the SA and/or the tech. Sometimes, regardless of dealership, shit happens. Some dealers have been great to some and not too good to others.

I know for a fact that more people will quickly write a negative review of a dealership and rarely bring up the good experience. Its just human nature for any internet forum.

Personally, I've found that its a really good idea to get to know your SA and tech. I've been upfront with them about my mods in the past and haven't had any trouble. The more you try to hide something, the more you'll piss them off.

[4cfd bmr]

Originally Posted by pseto

Pretty hard to get good data on that b/c its really comes down to the SA and/or the tech. Sometimes, regardless of dealership, shit happens. Some dealers have been great to some and not too good to others.

I know for a fact that more people will quickly write a negative review of a dealership and rarely bring up the good experience. Its just human nature for any internet forum.

Personally, I've found that its a really good idea to get to know your SA and tech. I've been upfront with them about my mods in the past and haven't had any trouble. The more you try to hide something, the more you'll piss them off.

+1

I recommend going to Tischer - it's out of the way for us Northern Virginians but, WELL worth the commute. I actually had a similar situation come up with my fuel injectors: I was at 50,400 miles and they wanted to deny the claim because they knew I had a tune and at first I denied it, then I called back and was completely straight with them. They made a few phone calls and BMW ended up "good willing" the fuel injectors and I was actually out of mileage warranty. They saved me $2600+ (original estimate was ~$3000) and I ended up only paying for labor ~$375 or so.

The secret recipe is:
1. Don't use BMW of Fairfax for service -
I had similar experience with them being clueless. I actually came in to Fairfax to have them look at a low speed brake squeal (luckily didn't get your SA and Tech) and I had just a CP-E catback exhaust and went for a ride with the tech and he was like "You know I like these 335's, I can tell that I'm in one because their exhaust sounds different" - He never had a clue it was aftermarket. They ended up also giving me shit about wanting to have me pay for an oil change because it was "early" at 12k miles (according to the service indicator) and got into it with a service advisor about how the oil change indicator and how it has no clue when the oil ACTUALLY needs changed - she insisted the car "knew" when the oil needed to be changed. I asked her then "How come when I changed the oil 5K miles ago it didn't increase my "oil life" in the service indicator?" I said actually its related to MPG and somewhat by mileage etc...she was speechless and without a clue so I never went back.

2. Get to know your service advisor AND your tech and request them EVERY time without fail.

3. Take care of them:
a. Don't B.S. them or you'll make a bad problem worse

b. Customer surveys - ALWAYS give them a "10" in all categories if you want to thank them for really "looking the other way". From talking to Bogdan (who used to be a service advisor) he instructed me that "9's" and below are like failures - "10" is the only good score.

c. Thank them with lunch, dinner, gift cards, etc. to recognize that they are actually probably doing something that could get them in trouble or even fired if they were caught "looking the other way" or being "mod-friendly" - alittle thank you in that respect goes a long way.

d. Call BMW NA if they really went out of their way and tell them about your experience. I know I sure did that since I was saved $2600+. Help those who help you out - I'm not sure if the call to BMW NA meant anything but we all know positive customer feedback at work (esp. in a customer service environment) never hurts when it comes time for a salary review - keep that in mind.

Hope that helps.

[paulcheung]

i didn't know dealership had the right to void your warranty without contacting BMWNA. gooding thing you got it back.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by paulcheung

i didn't know dealership had the right to void your warranty without contacting BMWNA. gooding thing you got it back.

They never "voided his warranty" - they refused warranty repairs but communicated it badly because they are clueless.

[bo1o02]

TWO bmw dealerships to stay away from:
1. Fairfax, va
2. VOB rockville, md (it's close to my work so I go back thinking they got better. But they never do. Their greeting is non-existent, service is horrible, scheduled timing is terrible, pretty much everything is horrendous)

[illirep]

What a load of crap. That place sucks. I had my nav unit replaced under an extended warranty that I bought through them on a 330ci that I bought there as well. I had a $100 deductible and ended up paying $400 for the repair. Their shit warranty that they sell doesn't cover hardware or sales tax. And they billed out $4,500 to the warranty company (which I obviously had to pay sales tax on) to replace a part that costs $2,000 as an option. I'll never go there again. Crooked people.

[huyner328]

I've heard horror stories on this board from this dealership countless times, not even sure why you brought your car there to begin with. With that being said, that's fuckin ridiculous that they'd void your warranty for an exhaust. I really hope BMW NA rectifies your situation, please keep us updated.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by huyner328

I've heard horror stories on this board from this dealership countless times, not even sure why you brought your car there to begin with. With that being said, that's fuckin ridiculous that they'd void your warranty for an exhaust. I really hope BMW NA rectifies your situation, please keep us updated.

For someone with a huge "SEARCH" button in your sig, it is a bit odd that you didn't read the whole thread.

1. His issue is resolved
2. They never "voided his warranty"
3. An aftermarket exhaust can certainly cause enough issues to have the dealership refuse warranty service - and I could imagine a scenario where the part and/or install was so bad that it caused multiple failures causing the manufacturer to refuse ANY future warranty service.

[paulcheung]

Originally Posted by cb1111

They never "voided his warranty" - they refused warranty repairs but communicated it badly because they are clueless.

ok thanks for clearing that up. so a dealership cannot void someones warranty but can refuse to honor it, that sucks. and are all the dealerships connected, do they share information about you car with each other?

[huyner328]

Yup, didn't really read this thread since he has another on in General that I briefly followed in the first few pages. Searching has nothing to do with my lack of reading on this particular thread. Sorry cb, didn't know you were policing but thank you for the clarification.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by huyner328

Yup, didn't really read this thread since he has another on in General that I briefly followed in the first few pages. Searching has nothing to do with my lack of reading on this particular thread. Sorry cb, didn't know you were policing but thank you for the clarification.

no worries - have a good weekend

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by paulcheung

ok thanks for clearing that up. so a dealership cannot void someones warranty but can refuse to honor it, that sucks. and are all the dealerships connected, do they share information about you car with each other?

In theory only the manufacturer can "void a warranty" but it is clearly done with primary input from the dealership.

Yes, the system shares information, so an entry at one dealership may be visible to another dealership.

A dealership won't refuse to honor your warranty, but theycan refuse warranty repairs on a particular fault if they believe that it was caused by a "non-warranty event." It is a subtle, but important, distinction.

[deletedelete]

Glad his issue was resolved. Now somebody just has to figure out mine!