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      04-06-2020, 08:36 AM   #11045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
Short answer: it's very good, but as always there's an issue.

Long answer: The bottom octave (lowest bass) is really great, response nicely extends down to 20Hz before any EQ is applied (the red curve). You can see the room correction adding boost below 20Hz (the green curve) because the default setting is to correct the response down to 15Hz. I'd probably adjust the room correction to stop applying EQ below 20Hz if I were to revisit and fine tune the correction parameters.

Looking again at the uncorrected response (red curve) you can easily see the big problem... it's the big irregularities from a little below 50Hz up past 200Hz. You can see the EQ (green curve) trying it's best to correct the problem, but EQ isn't up to the task. That problem is caused by the acoustics of the room and the specific placement (location) of the subwoofer within the room. A social distancing project this month is to revamp my office. Perhaps I'll see if another location works any better.

If you look at the corrected response (what do we call the third curve, mauve?) it is very good with only that little dip at ~80Hz, but that is a "projected" response curve, not an actual measurement, and is probably a little optimistic IMO.
Good reply, but I disagree with the short answer that it's very good, even though it appears so.

Yes, the huge dips followed by peaks are very likely a location problem, and the relative placement of the sub compared to the listening(mic) position.

My main issue is the amount of gain being applied in trying to correct those dips. Those 10+ dB boosts are pretty ridiculous and causing havoc on the amplifier and its power demands. Of course, this may not be an issue, or audible, if you're only ever listening to this at low volumes. A general rule is that eq should only be applied +/-3dB, maybe up to 6 in extreme cases, and ideally should be used to cut only, not boost. Throwing the hammer at it may seem like it fixed one problem, but often results in developing new ones.

And I didn't even know I had an issue with this, until I read your reply that mentions the "corrected" curve being projected, and not actually measured. Do you not remeasure the response to see what the real world results are? It would be interesting to see what it actually did compared to the original measurement, and the projected curve.

Either way, you seem to know your stuff and realize that moving the sub/listening position is the ideal fix, acoustically, while not always practical. Not trying to teach ya anything here, just get excited when I come across someone else who understands this stuff and is into it.
I agree with everything you said here. It is really nice to see someone else here realize the limitations and downsides of equalization, especially when adding ridiculous levels of boost. Even though the boost level below 20Hz is not as extreme, saving resources is exactly why I mentioned I'd like to ask the room correction to stop its work below 20Hz.

My description of "very good" will make more sense when I elaborate on my application and setup. I'm not being defensive here; I just think you'd agree. You even eluded to as much.

First, although the room correction software is measuring and applying EQ to ~250Hz, the low-pass corner frequency I'm using is only 70Hz. So most of that ugliness and resulting EQ boost is being rolled off anyway. The KEF LSX stay linear so low (anechoic response is within 3dB down to 54Hz) that in a room, I really don't need a ton of help from a subwoofer. Actually I was just fine without the sub but my Seismic 110 was sitting in my apt doing nothing so I thought I'd hook it up.

Quick aside- this discussion made me realize I don't know what the slope of the filter is on the subwoofer output of the KEF LSX. I even took a trip deep into the KEF servers to dig up this spec, but we don't seem to mention it anyplace. I'm sure it is at least 12dB/octave slope, but it is a digital filter so it might be more aggressive than that. I sent an email to our engineers in the U.K. for an answer to cure my curiosity. Thanks for pushing me!

The other factor you eluded to... This is only an office sound system in a condominium. This setup isn't required to produce a lot of output. Additionally, we are also talking about a pretty powerful (850w RMS) and capable sub. Even with those gross levels of EQ, I'm probably in more danger of pissing off my neighbors before clipping the output of the amplifier becomes audible! Lol

Thanks again for elevating the conversation.
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      04-06-2020, 08:46 AM   #11046
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Thanks again for elevating the conversation.
Can we lower the level of the conversation with some pictures of scantily clad women?
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      04-06-2020, 08:57 AM   #11047
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Thanks again for elevating the conversation.
Can we lower the level of the conversation with some pictures of scantily clad women?
Lol. I'll post 2 as punishment for veering off topic..
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      04-06-2020, 09:08 AM   #11048
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You have redeemed yourself good sir!!
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      04-06-2020, 09:36 AM   #11049
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Sorry for the crappy pic, but someone found it in their dads pictures and sent it to me and the flood of memories came back. Mine was the yellow one. Both 1969 factory 383 cars and my buddies fathers (blue one) was a factory power moon roof car. Still the only one I have ever seen in person in my life. I had forgotten about my personal plates. LOL

Circa 1987-1988??? Goooood times.
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      04-06-2020, 12:02 PM   #11050
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      04-06-2020, 01:34 PM   #11051
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      04-06-2020, 01:35 PM   #11052
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      04-06-2020, 01:37 PM   #11053
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      04-06-2020, 01:39 PM   #11055
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      04-06-2020, 03:29 PM   #11056
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      04-06-2020, 05:02 PM   #11057
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      04-06-2020, 06:10 PM   #11058
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      04-06-2020, 06:15 PM   #11061
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      04-06-2020, 06:21 PM   #11063
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      04-06-2020, 06:28 PM   #11064
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      04-06-2020, 06:52 PM   #11065
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