[terminator335i]

Glad you started your own build thread mate. Im rooting for you to make the 10s!!!

[tawfeeqh]

Originally Posted by terminator335i

Glad you started your own build thread mate. Im rooting for you to make the 10s!!!

Thanks mate - I hope so too

Hey that looks like cashy's vert lol (which we are also hoping to get into loooooooow 11s)

[terminator335i]

tell him to take the roof apart and theres 200kg of weight savings!!!

[CashedUpBogan]

Originally Posted by terminator335i

tell him to take the roof apart and theres 200kg of weight savings!!!

lol if it was that simple. 200 kgs goes into the roof motors but mainly it goes into chassis bracing and extra intrusion beams that shouldn't really be removed, though I have thought about it hahah

[tawfeeqh]

Originally Posted by Trev88

I've got an e90 too haha how much is that brace?!

Not sure what they retail for Trev. Sorry I have secured Petes one, but hopefully you find something for yours!

[DR-JEKL]

Re nolathane bushes etc I would discuss with a few guys at the drags what their thoughts are (the ford turbo boys for instance)

In circuit racing you want stiff suspension/bushings etc to maintain suspension geometry, whereas I know with drag racing the guys run the opposite as if the suspension is too stiff this will cause all that torque to load the tyres and you blow the tyres off (wheelspin).

So they counteract this by running softer shocks and custom spring rates spending time finding the right spring rate and damper combo so that when they launch the weight transfer to the rear tyres doesn't result in excessive wheelspin.

Chassis bracing is a good thing to prevent subframes etc being overloaded during the launches but having stiff bushes/suspension may not be ideal.

*I'm no drag suspension expert just offering my opinion - I think you should do some further investigation before installing them*

[tawfeeqh]

Originally Posted by DR-JEKL

Re nolathane bushes etc I would discuss with a few guys at the drags what their thoughts are (the ford turbo boys for instance)

In circuit racing you want stiff suspension/bushings etc to maintain suspension geometry, whereas I know with drag racing the guys run the opposite as if the suspension is too stiff this will cause all that torque to load the tyres and you blow the tyres off (wheelspin).

So they counteract this by running softer shocks and custom spring rates spending time finding the right spring rate and damper combo so that when they launch the weight transfer to the rear tyres doesn't result in excessive wheelspin.

Chassis bracing is a good thing to prevent subframes etc being overloaded during the launches but having stiff bushes/suspension may not be ideal.

*I'm no drag suspension expert just offering my opinion - I think you should do some further investigation before installing them*

Thanks for pointing this out doc. Agree that for drag racing they tend to put softer suspension/ dampers compared to circuit racing to really allow for that flex on launch. I think the stiffer bushings may be fine but the best people for me to ask will be Nizpro themselves as they have some of the fastest falcon turbos in the country. I do know they wern't overly impressed by some of the coil over kits for our cars so are working with shockworks to develop a prototype for the e9X platform. From memory I did show them the Nolathane bushings I had bought and I can't remember them saying stay away from them, but no harm in getting their view again

[DR-JEKL]

Originally Posted by tawfeeqh

Thanks for pointing this out doc. Agree that for drag racing they tend to put softer suspension/ dampers compared to circuit racing to really allow for that flex on launch. I think the stiffer bushings may be fine but the best people for me to ask will be Nizpro themselves as they have some of the fastest falcon turbos in the country. I do know they wern't overly impressed by some of the coil over kits for our cars so are working with shockworks to develop a prototype for the e9X platform. From memory I did show them the Nolathane bushings I had bought and I can't remember them saying stay away from them, but no harm in getting their view again

Yeah nizpro have been in the game a long time thats for sure!

I would expect if going for stiffer bushes would help, as surely the oem bushes would eventually fail especially with repeated launches and running DR's.

Do you get much lift on the front suspension and squat on the rear at all?

AFAIK some lift is good as it helps you get out of the hole quicker by revving the engine harder (which kinda counteracts the train of though that the car is moving up and not fwd though in the first 1 second out of the box) and some squat is fine as long as you have no traction issues but some 2 way dampers and varying spring rates may help dial it in?

Oh that's some huge MPH you're achieving also! Surely that would be an Australian N54 record?

[_ink]

Originally Posted by DR-JEKL

Re nolathane bushes etc I would discuss with a few guys at the drags what their thoughts are (the ford turbo boys for instance)

In circuit racing you want stiff suspension/bushings etc to maintain suspension geometry, whereas I know with drag racing the guys run the opposite as if the suspension is too stiff this will cause all that torque to load the tyres and you blow the tyres off (wheelspin).

So they counteract this by running softer shocks and custom spring rates spending time finding the right spring rate and damper combo so that when they launch the weight transfer to the rear tyres doesn't result in excessive wheelspin.

Chassis bracing is a good thing to prevent subframes etc being overloaded during the launches but having stiff bushes/suspension may not be ideal.

*I'm no drag suspension expert just offering my opinion - I think you should do some further investigation before installing them*

I agree with this completely.

My review on the nolathane bushes detailed that the car will tend to want to step out more under heavy acceleration, as doc mentioned, this is due to the power going more directly to the tyres.

[tawfeeqh]

Delete

[MJ80.]

Fucken records everywhere, Aust is king of n54 now ? (awaiting american hate)

[Banana Clipper]

get lighter wheels, read about rotational mass it does matter, especially when chasing 10ths or 100ths of seconds


sub'd for 10s!!!!

[tawfeeqh]

Delete

[tawfeeqh]

Originally Posted by _ink

I agree with this completely.

My review on the nolathane bushes detailed that the car will tend to want to step out more under heavy acceleration, as doc mentioned, this is due to the power going more directly to the tyres.

So if it goes directly to the tyres with drag radials will that help it squat more or actually it will be the opposite and cause it to spin more. Better make the right decision and not end up installing them and worsen the 60 ft lol

[vtl]

Lol stock subframe bushings better for drag racing

Originally Posted by _ink

I agree with this completely.

My review on the nolathane bushes detailed that the car will tend to want to step out more under heavy acceleration, as doc mentioned, this is due to the power going more directly to the tyres.

I don't agree with that at all, I've driven heaps of cars with upgraded sub frame bushings and none of them made the rear end step out more, even on upgraded turbos. How would a more rigidly mounted subframe cause the rear tyres to have less grip?

The subframe bushings do not affect suspension geometry at all, only thrust angle (ie make the car not drive straight under power if they're too soft). If soft bushings were an advantage where are all the drag racers buying up hollow bushings designed to absorb harsh runflat tyres. The only thing these stock bushings would do is simulate a chassis that is not very stiff (like those drag cars that twist up with one front wheel higher than the other)

Making the car track straight under power would be pretty important I would have thought. Drove a 335i yesterday with stock bushings, hit a road reflector and could feel the rear end waddle sideways and rear steer. Not what you want for a car doing 130mph+

The stock msport suspension is already very soft, if you're thinking that the subframe bushings will suddenly make the rear end rock hard and make the car lose traction, thats a bit of a wild imagination there.

[tawfeeqh]

Delete

[DR-JEKL]

All I know is to set a car up for drag racing those guys do some unconventional things in comparison to the circuit guys.

A circuit setup uses a stiff chassis setup (Sways bushes springs and dampers) whereas a car setup for circuit racing wont be ideally suited as a WR drag car.

Drag racers sometimes remove/loosens the front sway bar, this promotes lift at the front end and causes the weigh transfer to the rear upon launching and using either oem shocks with lighter rate springs.

An old hot rodder I knew who use to drag race his holden V8's said you want the front end as loose as possible for lift and the rear to squat and they would achieve this by loosening removing the front sway and fitting 6 cyl springs to the OEM shocks or by fitting specific drag shocks with bump and rebound adjustment (big $ strange engineering coilovers from the USA)

I'm not saying that the oem subframe bushes are the best for drag racing, I just think some further research may be beneficial for what other drag racers are using in a modern 6 cyl RWD T/C vehicle with lots of torque, as every hundredths of a second counts in drag racing to achieve a WR or breaking into the 10's.

I know I would be upset if I added some suspension components with good intentions to improve times but it caused the car to become slower due to excessive wheelspin (heck it may be that solid bushings are best!)

[OzJustin]

Originally Posted by tawfeeqh

Thanks for pointing this out doc. Agree that for drag racing they tend to put softer suspension/ dampers compared to circuit racing to really allow for that flex on launch. I think the stiffer bushings may be fine but the best people for me to ask will be Nizpro themselves as they have some of the fastest falcon turbos in the country. I do know they wern't overly impressed by some of the coil over kits for our cars so are working with shockworks to develop a prototype for the e9X platform. From memory I did show them the Nolathane bushings I had bought and I can't remember them saying stay away from them, but no harm in getting their view again

I'm keen to see what Shockworks come up with for the E9x platform. I approached them a while back to develop an E8x kit and they showed some interest but it didn't seem a priority for them. I ended up going with an MCA kit (I put a review on the 1-series forum). I'm keen to see details on the Shockworks package though. ?

[tawfeeqh]

OzJustin yep I saw your writeup of the coilovers. Very informative. Not a problem I will let you know on the progress of the development when I get more information

[Trev88]

Make it softer twaf give me the v brace haha

[tawfeeqh]

Originally Posted by Trev88

Make it softer twaf give me the v brace haha

Haha Trev - most people are in agreement about the vbrace assisting so thats going in. The debate was over the nolathane bushings

[Coupes33]

From my experience in drag racing, I believe having firmer subframe and differential bushes would be better for transferring the rotational torque to the front of the car to get it to lift. This energy would be partially lost in the bushes if they are too soft. Drag cars transfer this rotational energy from the differential through tramp rods or four link arrangements to lift the front of the car and throw the weight back onto the rear tyres for traction. The subframe is the only part that can do that on our beemers. Another tip to get better traction is to have less camber on the rear wheels so that when the car squats, the wheels are more upright and the tyre tread is square to the ground.