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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > I'm going to preventatively replace my 72K N55 rod bearings



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      02-16-2019, 12:10 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie335i View Post
I knew each and every one if you 4 would collectively jump my shit. Keep up your search, I'll minimize my risk by taking corrective action. Some replies are due.

bbnks, Agreed on the spin thing. But the reality is that is the symptom, as most brothers here all of a sudden hear the tell tale sound that we all fear. As far as a rebuild, that was not what I was after. I wanted answers to a few questions. I got them. I do recall hot rod builders way back in my misspent youth making high powered engines a tad looser. Maybe they were on to something.

9k, I asked questions, I got answers. I'll weigh the information given, and make my own decisions. I'd much rather do something, anything, versus continue in this circle jerk we have going on here until my engine blows up, only to later wonder why.

Pladi,
"So oiling issue and STD bearings but use out of spec thicker oil ? 10w-40... No logic there i am sorry." It seems I can always count on you to be the least rational, and most emotional here. You've got the new little one, I get it. If none of you guys thought that it was an oiling issue, why the back and forth about what one to use? I know, it is a temporary oil starvation issue. We can all at least agree on that. I personally think it is temp oil starvation over many times, then that one event happens, and ring. The STD bearings I referenced were slightly looser than BMW bearings by 1/1000th or so. You guys have questioned that 40 weight is too thick, maybe it is not flowing on the stock bearings. I don't disagree with thst. But guys have said that it has more protection in higher heat. So why not increase the gap ever so slightly and use the slightly thicker oil. Flow and protection. I know you'll have an answer for that. Debate on.

Midnight, bearings are designed to be pourous for a reason. Give me some reasons why.

Pladi again, I was given the 10w-40 value by MMP specifically as I live in Texas. I think I pointed that out here a few times. Still, I may go with the 5w-30 Liqui Moly as my engine immediately ran smoother after putting it in. And it wasn't due to old oil being replaced by fresh oil. And if my engine felt smoother, maybe there was friction going on. Maybe. My last Blackstone was excellent for an untuned engine. I guess they missed the Pure 2 and port injection comment. Still, good on the cylinder and piston health.

You guys collectively put a lot of weight on BMW engineers and their specifications. In some shape or form it was poor design choice(s) by them that put us all in this situation in the first place. I am guessing for both gas mileage and environmental requirements. While you guys all search for answers I will change the bearings out in my ride. In risk management sometimes you must make a band aid decision to minimize your exposure until a permanent fix is available. By changing the bearings out I'll either have the peace of mind that wear conditions to them are not happening, or at minimum buy myself time, as in years, until a final solution is found. That would require BMW to come clean, which ain't going to happen. Have any if you taken the time to write BMW for answers? I think not. Maybe they'll give an answer, say get lost, or not even respond. I can say that I at least contacted someone more in the know than people who would rather bleed out and bitch that they had died versus put a turniquet above the wound. Hell, any action is better than inaction. In this case inaction can cost thousands.
NOBODY is disagreeing that most of these fails are oiling issues. And what i am telling you is do not put thicker oil... That's my advice. Thats all. Alot of oil talk because previous BMW rod fails have always rooted to oil and bearing clearance. And these issues have not been because of operating temp spec but cold engines. By cold i dont mean canada cold. Cold means when u start ur car. Regardless***** of where u live. Thick cold weight will NOT benefit. So you and whoever told you 10w should attempt a reasonable explanation of why you are going the other direction of oil weight. Because when m3 bearings started failing due to oiling they did not go thicker.

I can do so many things proactively including change ur bearings. And most will say no problem there. But why mess with oil ?

Thats all i am saying. 5w-40 is great from liqui moly. Many great other options from quartz to fuchs to pentosin. So many great options. But when u say 10w we are automatically going back 20 years in oil technology. Thats 90s oil. Go 20w .. tractor oil. Lool
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      02-16-2019, 06:17 PM   #222
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Well... I just did my oil filter housing today (2nd time on this car) and my car died after 5 miles and won't restart like it's locked up. Im beside myself right now honestly. Did everything properly as far as I know, cleaned everything up. Let it idle for a good bit of time and then took it for a spin. No problem the first couple miles. Then tried to drive home and it stalled. Restarted, no problems or noises. Stalled twice more, then wouldn't restart after the last one. Never heard any knocking. No codes stored. Starter clicks but nothing happens. Not looking forward to this.
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      02-16-2019, 06:51 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
Well... I just did my oil filter housing today (2nd time on this car) and my car died after 5 miles and won't restart like it's locked up. Im beside myself right now honestly. Did everything properly as far as I know, cleaned everything up. Let it idle for a good bit of time and then took it for a spin. No problem the first couple miles. Then tried to drive home and it stalled. Restarted, no problems or noises. Stalled twice more, then wouldn't restart after the last one. Never heard any knocking. No codes stored. Starter clicks but nothing happens. Not looking forward to this.
Rich, this thread is about preventative rod bearing replacement; however, did you perform the engine priming procedure per the SIB (oil system repairs) before refiring the engine?
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      02-16-2019, 07:15 PM   #224
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Okay cool, now im never going to change my ofhg yikes wtf
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      02-16-2019, 08:07 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
Well... I just did my oil filter housing today (2nd time on this car) and my car died after 5 miles and won't restart like it's locked up. Im beside myself right now honestly. Did everything properly as far as I know, cleaned everything up. Let it idle for a good bit of time and then took it for a spin. No problem the first couple miles. Then tried to drive home and it stalled. Restarted, no problems or noises. Stalled twice more, then wouldn't restart after the last one. Never heard any knocking. No codes stored. Starter clicks but nothing happens. Not looking forward to this.
wow just wow. I hope thats not what happened man.

Did you put oil in the housing after done (not saying this is what caused it because i didnt when i did mine 2 times)

Did you drain the oil completely before the repair ? Or did you leave it as is.

Just trying to see if there is any correlations.

If this procedure causes any issues my take is the air in the oil passage causes a lock. Some type of air lock. Like air in cooling system. Trapped air.

That the only thing i can think of.

I didnt prime my engine and did this procedure 2 times. Obv didnt have this issue. But both times i didnt go for drive and i did not drain the oil prior to the work. I turned the car on for a bit then off. IT sat there for a bit before i drove again later in the day.

The other members mentioned too that the lock happened during the drive.

I have no idea why that would make a difference but only thing we can do in this forum as non experts is try to find correlations. We are not experts.
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      02-16-2019, 08:08 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by fatty335 View Post
Rich, this thread is about preventative rod bearing replacement; however, did you perform the engine priming procedure per the SIB (oil system repairs) before refiring the engine?
Very very very few people do this priming work and have no issues but the priming might completely prevent this. I dont think many people do this or know about this.
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      02-16-2019, 08:55 PM   #227
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Well I'm fairly positive it's a rod bearing problem. I took the belt off and turned the motor by hand. It turns, but it's very rough in a couple of spots. If I back it off the rough spot and try to start it, the starter turns the motor until it hits the rough patch and just stops. Having it towed back to my shop now and I'll be taking off the pan and inspecting the bearings soon. I'll post pictures to this thread as well.

I did not prime the housing before starting it up. I have never done it before. I've changed dozens of these filter gaskets and never had a problem (on other people's cars of course.) This is the second or third time I've done it to my own. I made sure not to let anything get into the oil passages and made sure there were no remnants of shop rag or anything like that to get in there. In hindsight I wish I would have just poured some oil through there but I really can't believe that's all it takes to ruin a motor. I did remove the filter before taking anything apart, and let the oil drain down into the pan.

I also did not drain the oil. My oil has about 3,000 miles on it so I figured it was good for a bit longer.

I did the repair, started it and let the car idle for a few minutes after I was finished, then shut it off and let it sit for about half an hour. Then I did an alignment to it so I started it up and put it on the alignment rack, shut it off and it sat for another almost hour while I did that. Took it on a test drive and drove it easily (kept under 3k RPM) because I was worried about running into this problem. Didn't give me any problems, motor felt fine, no knocking noises or weird sensations. Further along the test drive, it stalled out (right after taking it out of gear and trying to coast) and I just chalked it up to my valvetronic acting weird or something. It fired right back up no problem. I pulled it into a parking lot and rev'd the motor in neutral. Held the revs everywhere in the 1000-3200 rpm range, listening for knocking but never heard anything out of the ordinary.
After all that, I go to drive home. Driving it easily again, under 3k rpm, no problems at all. Decided to give it a little gas and get into boost (nowhere near WOT though, light boosting.) Got it up to about 4500 RPM and took it out of gear, motor immediately shut down once out of gear. It didn't act funny at all while it was accelerating. I had no reason to think there was a problem until I took it out of gear. I was nowhere near beating on this car, or even driving "spiritedly." Oil was at operating temperature before I ever got into boost, not a single code stored in the DME.

This sucks though. I hope I can get away with just changing the bearings. Hopefully no damage done to the crank or block. I never heard any knock at all so I'm hoping that will be the case. 108k on my motor, always used BMW 5w30 and recently switched to German Castrol 0w40 for the last few oil changes.

Edit: And sorry for kinda hijacking this thread, but I figured it was the most relevant one to the problem I'm running into. I know there's been a lot of debating when it comes to how and why this happens, and I'm just hoping that my input can help in some way. Plus I just wanted to vent about this BULLSHIT I'm running into. I literally JUST put on M3 control arms and realigned it and was soo happy with how it was handling, and then it just fuckin dies on me. It's been a rough saturday lol.

Last edited by rich_mane; 02-16-2019 at 09:11 PM..
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      02-16-2019, 09:24 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
Well I'm fairly positive it's a rod bearing problem. I took the belt off and turned the motor by hand. It turns, but it's very rough in a couple of spots. If I back it off the rough spot and try to start it, the starter turns the motor until it hits the rough patch and just stops. Having it towed back to my shop now and I'll be taking off the pan and inspecting the bearings soon. I'll post pictures to this thread as well.

I did not prime the housing before starting it up. I have never done it before. I've changed dozens of these filter gaskets and never had a problem (on other people's cars of course.) This is the second or third time I've done it to my own. I made sure not to let anything get into the oil passages and made sure there were no remnants of shop rag or anything like that to get in there. In hindsight I wish I would have just poured some oil through there but I really can't believe that's all it takes to ruin a motor. I did remove the filter before taking anything apart, and let the oil drain down into the pan.

I also did not drain the oil. My oil has about 3,000 miles on it so I figured it was good for a bit longer.

I did the repair, started it and let the car idle for a few minutes after I was finished, then shut it off and let it sit for about half an hour. Then I did an alignment to it so I started it up and put it on the alignment rack, shut it off and it sat for another almost hour while I did that. Took it on a test drive and drove it easily (kept under 3k RPM) because I was worried about running into this problem. Didn't give me any problems, motor felt fine, no knocking noises or weird sensations. Further along the test drive, it stalled out (right after taking it out of gear and trying to coast) and I just chalked it up to my valvetronic acting weird or something. It fired right back up no problem. I pulled it into a parking lot and rev'd the motor in neutral. Held the revs everywhere in the 1000-3200 rpm range, listening for knocking but never heard anything out of the ordinary.
After all that, I go to drive home. Driving it easily again, under 3k rpm, no problems at all. Decided to give it a little gas and get into boost (nowhere near WOT though, light boosting.) Got it up to about 4500 RPM and took it out of gear, motor immediately shut down once out of gear. It didn't act funny at all while it was accelerating. I had no reason to think there was a problem until I took it out of gear. I was nowhere near beating on this car, or even driving "spiritedly." Oil was at operating temperature before I ever got into boost, not a single code stored in the DME.

This sucks though. I hope I can get away with just changing the bearings. Hopefully no damage done to the crank or block. I never heard any knock at all so I'm hoping that will be the case. 108k on my motor, always used BMW 5w30 and recently switched to German Castrol 0w40 for the last few oil changes.

Edit: And sorry for kinda hijacking this thread, but I figured it was the most relevant one to the problem I'm running into. I know there's been a lot of debating when it comes to how and why this happens, and I'm just hoping that my input can help in some way. Plus I just wanted to vent about this BULLSHIT I'm running into. I literally JUST put on M3 control arms and realigned it and was soo happy with how it was handling, and then it just fuckin dies on me. It's been a rough saturday lol.
Oh man no kidding it sucks.

Ur not highjacking anything in my opinion. Ur experience says putting new bearings will not save u from this issue.

Putting new bearings is nice but this motor lock up is weird AS FUKC


You did pretty much the same thing as me. Eaxctly. Which is so odd.

OBV the OFHG replacement had something to do with the failure.

1 coincidence ok. But there are way too many immediately after this rework.


freaking BMW , this OFHG is such a pain in the f butt. HUGE design flaw. worry about this or worry about it spilling all over the belt... which can ALSO treat u with a motor fail. BMW FAIL
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      02-16-2019, 10:32 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Pladi View Post
Oh man no kidding it sucks.

Ur not highjacking anything in my opinion. Ur experience says putting new bearings will not save u from this issue.

Putting new bearings is nice but this motor lock up is weird AS FUKC


You did pretty much the same thing as me. Eaxctly. Which is so odd.

OBV the OFHG replacement had something to do with the failure.

1 coincidence ok. But there are way too many immediately after this rework.


freaking BMW , this OFHG is such a pain in the f butt. HUGE design flaw. worry about this or worry about it spilling all over the belt... which can ALSO treat u with a motor fail. BMW FAIL
Bet you that leaky piece of shit was intentionally designed as a money grab xD. That damn gasket costs 30$ VS 800$ of labor.
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      02-17-2019, 05:38 AM   #230
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I know this is mainly a 1/3 series group and I have heard some mention the issue happened on E70s also.

I'm from Australia and all our N55s have some form of oil cooling. 1/3 series get oil to air coolers with a thermostatic valve in place of the oil to coolant heat exchanger fitted to other series.

Do all your 1/3 series N55s have oil coolers?

If they do, then I wonder if the thermostat opening temperature has something to do with this issue? Most report the issue happening not immediately but after a brief drive or after picking up the vehicle from a workshop. Would that not correlate with the oil cooler thermostat opening up, thus allowing a pocket of air to circulate under load? (Nobody mentioned the engine seized whilst idling as far as i remember)
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      02-17-2019, 09:27 AM   #231
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I know this is mainly a 1/3 series group and I have heard some mention the issue happened on E70s also.

I'm from Australia and all our N55s have some form of oil cooling. 1/3 series get oil to air coolers with a thermostatic valve in place of the oil to coolant heat exchanger fitted to other series.

Do all your 1/3 series N55s have oil coolers?

If they do, then I wonder if the thermostat opening temperature has something to do with this issue? Most report the issue happening not immediately but after a brief drive or after picking up the vehicle from a workshop. Would that not correlate with the oil cooler thermostat opening up, thus allowing a pocket of air to circulate under load? (Nobody mentioned the engine seized whilst idling as far as i remember)
The oil thermostat is design to allow constant oil circulation. Doesn't close 100%. I have had at shop locked up x3 and x5 n55 that had oil to coolant not oil to air radiator. Also had locked up 3 series without any oil cooler. If you ask my I say that all of these failed engines right after some repair job already had an issue and the momentarily lack of oil destroy them completely. These engines can go for a while with a bearing issue that is often undetectable by layman driver.
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      02-17-2019, 11:03 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Ozzie335i View Post
I knew each and every one if you 4 would collectively jump my shit. Keep up your search, I'll minimize my risk by taking corrective action. Some replies are due.

bbnks, Agreed on the spin thing. But the reality is that is the symptom, as most brothers here all of a sudden hear the tell tale sound that we all fear. As far as a rebuild, that was not what I was after. I wanted answers to a few questions. I got them. I do recall hot rod builders way back in my misspent youth making high powered engines a tad looser. Maybe they were on to something..
I dont see any issue with replacing bearings "preventivly." If you got 70k or 100k out of the oe set then you'll probably be good for the remaining life of the vehicle... like OP did.

Most people just have rod k ock and didn't actually "spin" the bearing shell in its bore. If they did spin a bearing then it was the result of heat/friction from failed bearings and/or oiling. There are other cases where spun bearings are the cause of failures due to insufficient crush and/or rod bore distortion. That does not seem to be the case with BMW rod bearing failures. So yeah, people use the term spin loosely and it can point to many different failure modes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie335i View Post
"So oiling issue and STD bearings but use out of spec thicker oil ? 10w-40... No logic there i am sorry." It seems I can always count on you to be the least rational, and most emotional here. You've got the new little one, I get it. If none of you guys thought that it was an oiling issue, why the back and forth about what one to use? I know, it is a temporary oil starvation issue. We can all at least agree on that. I personally think it is temp oil starvation over many times, then that one event happens, and ring. The STD bearings I referenced were slightly looser than BMW bearings by 1/1000th or so. You guys have questioned that 40 weight is too thick, maybe it is not flowing on the stock bearings. I don't disagree with thst. But guys have said that it has more protection in higher heat. So why not increase the gap ever so slightly and use the slightly thicker oil. Flow and protection. I know you'll have an answer for that. Debate on.
Did you read my post at all lol? King std bearings do not open the clearances up 1/1000 in. I literally posted all the factual numbers for you. They are standard bearing and produce the standard clearance of 1.5 thousandths (.0015"). If you wanted a bearing that opened up clearances 1/1000 (.001") then you would need an "x" bearing and I dont think anyone even makes them for b30 engines (it would need to be custom).

Yes, as you increase power it is generally accepted that you should open up the bearing clearances.

I personally dont think oil weight has anything to do with this. Oil is always just the first logically red herring everyone jumps to when a bearing failure occurs. Fact of the matter is it's probably just bearing wear over time due to a variety of factors that all modern engines are dealing with... direct injection fuel dilution, tight tolerances and cold start lubrication, start/stop functions, high load and high operating temps(higher hp/liter output), etc... all been stated before. Like I've already said, even the s85 rod bearing pictures all look like normal wear and te as r just accelerated... once that outer layer of bearing material is gone a worn bearing becomes catastrophic failure.

Last edited by bbnks2; 07-08-2019 at 07:34 AM..
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      02-17-2019, 11:14 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
Well I'm fairly positive it's a rod bearing problem.
Let's hope for your sake that it's not... if you can turn an engine over by hand then there is no reason it wont turn over with the starter. The "hard spots" are probably the peaks of the cam lobes that youre feeling push valves open.

Keep us updated. I've changed my ofhg so many times without issue it's just hard to believe. I did n oil cha ge yesterday and noted that the oil stays pooled in the housing and does not drain back to the pan. The oil pump holds oil. Changing oil/ gasket does not bleed an oil pump dry. The other issue I have with this air pocket theory is that how would the car not see the loss of oil pressure? The oil pressure sensor is literally right there on the ofh. The dome would've thrown a low oil pressure code and out you into limp mode.

The ofhg job does seem to be a common denominator in leading to bearing failure.
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      02-17-2019, 12:56 PM   #234
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I've turned motors by hand before, and it seems like it's just more effort than usual to get it to turn. But I was sorta happy to find that it wasn't just completely locked up.

I really wish I was logging the car to see what the oil pressure reading was at the time. One thing I did notice, my oil pressure sensor seemed to have oil inside of the connector. I cleaned the connector out and let it dry for a while before plugging it back in. I checked oil level 3 times before driving, it said it was full to the top. So I know oil was full. But I wonder if somehow the oil pressure sensor went bad and was just giving a false reading to the DME preventing it from going into limp mode. Idk.

Then again, I could be having an issue totally separate and my mind is just going to the bearings after doing this ofhg replacement. I didn't look at it today, too pissed off still lol. So tomorrow I'll hopefully have more answers.
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      02-17-2019, 01:28 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_mane View Post
I've turned motors by hand before, and it seems like it's just more effort than usual to get it to turn. But I was sorta happy to find that it wasn't just completely locked up.

I really wish I was logging the car to see what the oil pressure reading was at the time. One thing I did notice, my oil pressure sensor seemed to have oil inside of the connector. I cleaned the connector out and let it dry for a while before plugging it back in. I checked oil level 3 times before driving, it said it was full to the top. So I know oil was full. But I wonder if somehow the oil pressure sensor went bad and was just giving a false reading to the DME preventing it from going into limp mode. Idk.

Then again, I could be having an issue totally separate and my mind is just going to the bearings after doing this ofhg replacement. I didn't look at it today, too pissed off still lol. So tomorrow I'll hopefully have more answers.
Rich, pulling the oil filter should tell you everything you need to know...full of metal bits = spun bearing; clean = there's still hope!
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      02-22-2019, 03:29 PM   #236
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And update from Rich?
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      02-22-2019, 03:49 PM   #237
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Just pulled the car into the bay today. Not sure if I'm going to start ripping it apart tonight just because Im not feeling that great. Might wait til tomorrow.

But here's my oil filter. A couple specks of metal but ultimately doesn't look too bad... Does this look concerning?


I'll probably post a new thread up so this one doesn't get overrun by my posts. Tomorrow is probably the day things start coming apart.
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      02-22-2019, 08:24 PM   #238
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That looks normal.
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      03-20-2019, 06:20 PM   #239
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My mechanic is changing out the rod bearings in my ride as I type. All in all the existing bearings I looked at look somewhat ok for 68 k miles, but I m glad I am changing them out. There is light wear and a couple of very slight scratches. Nothing that the scratch test grabs on to. The crank journals are pristine.

The first set of 5 bearings all had the same numbers on them. Maybe due to the same sizing? The first three new bearings installed had a clearance if .002. Right on target. I'll comment more tomorrow, and attach photos. All in all I am glad I did this.
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      03-21-2019, 04:51 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Ozzie335i View Post
My mechanic is changing out the rod bearings in my ride as I type. All in all the existing bearings I looked at look somewhat ok for 68 k miles, but I m glad I am changing them out. There is light wear and a couple of very slight scratches. Nothing that the scratch test grabs on to. The crank journals are pristine.

The first set of 5 bearings all had the same numbers on them. Maybe due to the same sizing? The first three new bearings installed had a clearance if .002. Right on target. I'll comment more tomorrow, and attach photos. All in all I am glad I did this.
Fantastic, Ozzie! Please post up pics when you get a chance. Also, what color rod bearing combos did your crank call for (ex. rrrrrr, rbrbrb)? .002 is slightly larger than factory so I assume you are putting in an aftermarket bearing, King perhaps? Looking forward to your results.
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      06-28-2019, 10:08 AM   #241
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#3 upper was one of the worst:
How is your 335i running? Here is one with 75k. What you think of the burn spot?
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      06-30-2019, 02:28 PM   #242
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How is your 335i running? Here is one with 75k. What you think of the burn spot?
Hi feuer, I've put about 6,000 miles on the new rod bearings and I'm very pleased to report I have had zero issues. I was driving very carefully at first as I regained confidence in the car, but now I have no doubts that I put it back together correctly! I figure these bearings will last me as long as I want to keep the car.

That dark spot on that bearing is interesting - like it's worn through the outer layer right at the bottom of the stroke. What's even more interesting is that nearly every one of my bearings had that dark brown/green look to them over the entire surface. The more pictures that get posted like this, the more I'm very happy I changed mine when I did.
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