|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
Latest Wastegate Rattle Fixes?
|
|
02-21-2018, 10:02 AM | #1 |
Lieutenant
233
Rep 564
Posts |
Latest Wastegate Rattle Fixes?
Instead of wading through the hundreds of threads regarding the rattling wastegates on these cars I felt it would be best to start a new thread that was free of the information overload and outdated comments. Basically what I want to know in this thread are the different methods in which wastegate rattle has been fixed/improved and the efficacy of that method.
For instance, I know you can adjust the wastegate position using JB4 or MHD. I did this yesterday and my car is much quieter now but this sounds like a bandaid rather than a permanent solution. Any short or long term experience on this method would be great to hear. Another method I'm aware of is rotating the nut on the wastegate actuator rods as well as sliding in a washer or two to eliminate the slack or something like that. Would love to hear from anyone who has done this and how long it's held up. Last method that I've heard the least about but seemed the most interested in is replacing the wastegate actuators or the clips while the turbos are still on the car. Something like that. I've had the downpipes off enough times that I would be open to giving this one a shot if it's a more permanent fix than the rod adjustment & not significantly harder. Anything I'm missing? |
02-21-2018, 10:33 AM | #2 |
Captain
573
Rep 870
Posts
Drives: 2009 335i E90
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Fremont, CA
|
Not sure it's even worth creating a new thread as everything you mentioned here, as well as seen in every other old threads, is still valid.
A hardware fix you didn't already mention: http://turbolabofamerica.com/bmw-135...le-repair-fix/
__________________
2008 E61 535xi Sport Wagon / 100k Miles / Deep Sea Blue Metallic / Natural Brown Interior / MHD Stage 1 91 CA-Octane Tune.
SOLD - 2009 E90 335i M-Sport Sedan / 143k Miles / Alpine White Exterior / Chestnut Brown Interior / Mishimoto FMIC / xHP Stage 2. Last edited by MysticRob; 02-21-2018 at 03:39 PM.. |
Appreciate
3
|
02-21-2018, 03:37 PM | #3 |
New Member
12
Rep 23
Posts |
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=890145&page=2
Post #26 waikiki35
__________________
07 E90 AT 335I 130k
JB4 G5 - E85 BEF/DCI/VRSF-CP-TS RP BOV-Orange Spring/VRSF V2 D-P's /Stage 2 Bucket/7" FMIC |
02-21-2018, 11:43 PM | #4 |
Captain
90
Rep 817
Posts |
Interesting info, I was not aware of either fix....been slacking on this front. My turbos right now sound like an Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake trapped in a tin coffee can with some loose ball bearings at the bottom and have been that way for some time now. My question is how can you tell if this is affecting turbo performance? If you're not getting low boost codes does that mean they are doing their job just fine other than the annoying rattling sound? Maybe do a log for requested vs actual boost? I'm old school with cobbV2 and honestly not even sure how to do that....
Last edited by nikitino25; 02-21-2018 at 11:55 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
02-22-2018, 10:46 AM | #5 |
New Member
12
Rep 23
Posts |
I wouldn't know how to do logging on Cobb but if you do get access to logging data you can see what your boost target vs actual vs wgdc to see whats going on
__________________
07 E90 AT 335I 130k
JB4 G5 - E85 BEF/DCI/VRSF-CP-TS RP BOV-Orange Spring/VRSF V2 D-P's /Stage 2 Bucket/7" FMIC |
Appreciate
0
|
02-22-2018, 10:48 AM | #6 | |
Lieutenant
233
Rep 564
Posts |
Quote:
PWM: Stands for pulse width modulation but is also known as wastegate duty cycle. Represents the demand for the boost signal going to the vacuum control solenoid(s). The larger the signal the more vacuum is applied to the WG (Waste Gate…. exhaust gas bypass valve) control actuator and the harder the WG plug is forced onto the WG seat. The system is designed to "fail" in the WG open position so that the engine is not subjected to high boost conditions under a failure condition, such as a broken wire or faulty output. PWM does not actually control the WG position.... but rather the pressure ratio across the exhaust gas power turbine. The WG position actuator has a very weak spring in it and yet controls a WG plug with a large pressure drop across it at high engine rpms and boost levels. At low to moderate WG demand signals, the vacuum applied to the WG actuator will totally close the WG plug. As rpm and boost build, at some point, the pressure drop across the WG plug will overcome the supplied vacuum force of the actuator and the WG plug will reopen, maintaining the established exhaust gas pressure ratio.... and indirectly, also the boost pressure ratio, with no further action by the DME. At high WG demand signal levels, the WG demand signal is great enough to maintain the WG plug on the WG seat, ensuring all gas flow passes though the power turbine. During turbo spool up the JB4 will produce a high PWM to spool up the turbos and then as boost approaches target that value will drop to prevent boost from going over target. Once spooled the PID system takes over the PWM signal and adjusts it dynamically using the FF, RPM specific duty bias settings, and PID gain. More info in this thread: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21269 I think if your WGDC % is consistently high and you're struggling to hit your targets then the turbos could be getting old. I remember seeing someone say something about seeing lower WGDC % after getting some new turbos installed. Just my guess though. Would love to know more though so I can keep an eye out. |
|
Appreciate
1
Timore1.00 |
02-22-2018, 10:58 AM | #7 | |
Lieutenant
233
Rep 564
Posts |
Quote:
I hope for this thread to be more of a compilation of these different methods over the years with more focus on cost, time required and amount improved. For example, the link you posted was actually something I was thinking about when making my post but I haven't seen any information on them besides that link. Looks like the turbos have to be removed entirely in order to do the install though which is a little further than I want to take it. But hey, maybe someone here has the means or desire to do it. If we get enough posts and evidence supporting some of these methods I'll gladly put them together in the first post from order of easiest to hardest or least effective to most effective etc... whatever you guys want. Anybody with experience replacing their wastegate actuators have input to add? Also would like to hear from individuals who have been running JB4 or MHD rattle fixes for a long period of time and if they've noticed anything change. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-22-2018, 11:21 AM | #8 |
Second Lieutenant
104
Rep 286
Posts |
Don't bother with the software/tune fix it will only introduce lag. What worked for me is a combination of methods.
The rear turbo (the one you can see from the top of your engine bay on the passenger side) can be reached by hand and some small wrench to adjust the rod, a few full rotations should do. Since the front turbo is no accessible to do the same, what you need to do here is the washer fix. You can get to the front turbo actuator from under the car, you remove the two bolts holding the actuator to the engine (one at a time) and place a washer or two in between the mounting point on the engine and the actuator. This basically extends the rod and accomplishes the same as adjusting like you did for the rear. That's it, both procedures are a bit tricky and you need to be patient but you can get both done in a few hours. |
Appreciate
1
Ballistic127.00 |
02-22-2018, 12:54 PM | #9 |
LongDongSilver
274
Rep 706
Posts |
Yep, rattle fix tunes are worthless. I have eliminated rattle from 4 different N54’s now adjusting the rear rod and shimming the front. I hook a vac gun up to the wg, get a stethoscope, and listen for the wastegates closing to ensure I have tightened/ shimmed them correctly. Removing the downpipes and visually inspecting is an even better method. rear actuator takes about 10 minutes with a helper to listen, and front takes about 2 hours tops. Use fishing line on your wrench for the rear cuz I’d bet money you drop it and use a magnet stick tool to position the washers for the front actuator. Back all bolts for the front actuator off like halfway, and do em one at a time, makes it super easy to line everything up, no cut washers or other bs.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-22-2018, 02:02 PM | #10 | |
Lieutenant
233
Rep 564
Posts |
Quote:
Pretty confident I can manage the rod adjustment myself without too much trouble. Question though, when you say "Back all bolts for the front actuator off like halfway, and do em one at a time, makes it super easy to line everything up, no cut washers or other bs." What do you mean back that? Back em out halfway, remove 1 bolt, slide on washer, add back bolt and then do the second one? I know the cut washer method but your post was slightly unclear. Thanks |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-22-2018, 04:00 PM | #11 |
Private
16
Rep 72
Posts |
When I got my car at 85K miles, it had a good bit of rattle. I did the rear actuator rod fix, and it helped briefly.
As time went on, I accepted the rattle, but at some point, I knew that I was losing boost. It would take 3-5 seconds to reach full boost ~13psi. So in first and second gear, I never reached target boost. My believe is that the linkage was so worn that the wastegate never actually closed. Perhaps more turning of the rod or shimming the actuator would have helped, but I was sure my turbos were burning oil, so I went ahead and just replaced both turbos. Wow what a difference. I went from 3-5 seconds to build target boost, to literally a split second. I have a JB4 and have one of the gauges hijacked to show boost, which is how I was really able to watch the difference in boost response.
__________________
JB4, DPs, Style 313 wheels, M-Sport front bumper, Inlets, DCI
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-22-2018, 05:13 PM | #12 | |
LongDongSilver
274
Rep 706
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
Ballistic127.00 |
02-22-2018, 08:29 PM | #13 | ||
Major General
1900
Rep 6,968
Posts
Drives: 2007 Black/Black 335i e90
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Holly, MI
|
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
02-23-2018, 12:10 AM | #14 |
Lieutenant
147
Rep 525
Posts
Drives: E82 135i
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
|
I manually adjusted my rear turbo. Fixed it for now. 2 turns.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-23-2018, 03:39 PM | #15 |
Private First Class
27
Rep 125
Posts |
Anyone experienced in e60s? I have some rattle but the rear method through the top seems impossible by the way the downpipes are in the 535i, I want to avoid at all costs replacing the turbos, my only thought is to remove the downpipes but want to make sure I can fix it before putting them back
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-23-2018, 03:41 PM | #16 | |
Lieutenant
147
Rep 525
Posts
Drives: E82 135i
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-23-2018, 03:44 PM | #17 | |
Private First Class
27
Rep 125
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-23-2018, 04:09 PM | #18 |
Lieutenant
147
Rep 525
Posts
Drives: E82 135i
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
|
In the direction of the fender. Left from top, right from underneath. With the locknut, right (towards engine) will loosen it.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-23-2018, 04:34 PM | #19 | |
New Member
12
Rep 23
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
07 E90 AT 335I 130k
JB4 G5 - E85 BEF/DCI/VRSF-CP-TS RP BOV-Orange Spring/VRSF V2 D-P's /Stage 2 Bucket/7" FMIC |
|
Appreciate
2
!LEFTCOAST!182.50 Bimmer_Engineer1043.50 |
03-06-2018, 08:38 PM | #20 | |
Captain
183
Rep 890
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-07-2018, 08:39 AM | #21 |
Major General
4275
Rep 9,205
Posts |
I have done the rod adjustment, both alternatives: shorten the rod on rear turbo and adding washers on the front turbo on few n54. What I have found is that it helps with under boost but not so much with the rattle itself. The rod rattles but so does the flapper lid/cap inside the turbo that closes the wastegate. OEM do this even when brand new. I have used springs to apply tension on the rod and that yield better results with the rattle.
|
Appreciate
1
puppydax146.50 |
03-07-2018, 11:03 AM | #22 |
Banned
127
Rep 123
Posts |
How much it helps would depend on the amount of wear i guess.
I had terrible rattle, even with the MHD fix. After doing both hardware fixes i pretty much eliminated all rattle. Only during startup for a second while vacuum isn't built a 100% yet. Good to hear some have already had another 40k miles of rattleless driving. I'm at about 15k without rattle @ quick building 18psi. My turbo's are fine (at over 130k miles!) so i don't wan't to replace them yet. |
Appreciate
1
puppydax146.50 |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|