[slowcar]

currently driving ecobox: 2006 bmw 325i 6sp (mods: m3 steering rack, m3 control arms, 3SI) - putting down whopping 200whp. slow enough to mash the pedal without getting into too much trouble.

clean slate, e90 m3 is a no brainer, high revving, last of the breed NA v8, with a solid luxury/sport interior.

but for the same money...

• M5/M6 gets more engine + luxury
• cayman handles better + luxury
• ur pick of american muscle for powa

I feel like i got 3/10 of the m3 experience, so wondering if the additional 7/10ths is worth it

[iqraceworks]

Get a 335i. Much cheaper than E46 M3, and makes more power easily. It just depends on what you are wanting to do with the car.

400hp/500tq is pretty easy with bolt-ons and a tune.

[JM98]

Depends on what youre looking for.

M3 if you want something to keep long term (slightly higher budget) and mostly OEM. It's a great car, high revving, fun, but not a beast in a straight line. Arguably has lower maintenance costs than a turbo BMW.

135i/335i if you want cheap power but are willing to do a lot of work. You can get a N54/N55 and mod it to 400hp for half the cost of the M3, but it will lack the suspension, drivetrain, looks, and have almost no resale after you mod it. Just depends what you're into.

[tlow98]

Id say your closer to the M3 than 3/10ths. It’s not a torquey machine. The one I’ve driven was really nice but I think the handling stood out the most (compared to my 328i stock wagon). The engine did it impress unless it was above 5k and you only got a couple shifts before you were deep into go to jail territory.

Intoxicating - sure. Drive one and give it a go. You’ll have to decide for yourself.

[mweisdorfer]

The motor in the M3 has bearing issues as well as throttle body actuator defects. There are great market fixes. The bearing DIY is not for the faint at heart. If you can change the turbos on an N54, you can do that DIY.

It does seem to go through motor mounts faster.

The only other thing I'd say is that the fluid intervals are much shorter. Suspension & Brakes will cost a lot more to change. I'd definitely buy my parts from FCP.

Last, car insurance will likely rise. The guys on the forums say the M3 has less issues than the temperamental n54. Probably true...

Last, it's a fair assumption that when you buy a used M3, that it's been tracked. Maybe not, but most likely.

Look for one at a BMW dealer. Dealers won't resell a car like that unless it's in really good shape.

[Biginboca]

I think if you ask on the M3 forum you’ll get a different set of answers. More on this forum wouldn’t make the swap, that’s why they are still here.

I’ve driven 5 e92m3’s. Manuals and Autos. I determined for a daily for my usage it’s not worth the swap. My 328i after mods is within less than 1/2 second from 0-80mph of a e92m3 and requires almost zero maintenance. Also there haven’t been any reports of rod bearings issues with n52’s. A fraction of a second isn’t worth the expense and risk to me.

[porsche959]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I think if you ask on the M3 forum you’ll get a different set of answers. More on this forum wouldn’t make the swap, that’s why they are still here.

I’ve driven 5 e92m3’s. Manuals and Autos. I determined for a daily for my usage it’s not worth the swap. My 328i after mods is within less than 1/2 second from 0-80mph of a e92m3 and requires almost zero maintenance. Also there haven’t been any reports of rod bearings issues with n52’s. A fraction of a second isn’t worth the expense and risk to me.

What mods do you have that puts you that close to the m3? Hard to get with basic bolt ons id imagine

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by porsche959

What mods do you have that puts you that close to the m3? Hard to get with basic bolt ons id imagine

Mods are in my build thead linked in my signature below. Here’s a comparison:

E92m3 dct:

My 328i manual:

[CTinline-six]

Whether it's worth it depends on if you can use the difference between them. Sure more power is fun, but for how long?

Personally, I'd love an M3 but it doesn't make sense right now since I don't live anywhere close to a track, and I can't exceed the limits of my current car with everyday driving. I can already get to arrestable speeds in a few seconds with my 328i where I drive. If I lived in a place that realistically allowed me to enjoy the M3 I'd absolutely get one, but right now it would probably just land me in jail.

[mweisdorfer]

335i with FBO, MHD stage 2+ w/ after mkt turbos is faster than a stock M3.

It's a matter of taste, how much $$$ you are willing to spend & if you can DIY or not.

You can even make the 335i look like an M3 for the most part. Again, more $$

If I were to buy one, I'd get one with less than 45,000 miles on it, and buy it from a BMW dealer. I'd also have about $2500.00 in savings earmarked for new rod bearings, throttle body actuators & engine mounts. I'd also change out all the fluids so I know where I'm at exactly with each of them.

I'd also have another $1000.00 set aside for brakes and start setting aside $$$ more for a rebuild on the suspension.

I think once you did that you'd be alright.

It would be a good DD, as long as you didn't have to drive more than 20 min one way to work. It's probably better in the snow than a 335 due to the fact that it has an LSD. Although maybe the wider tires might negate that advantage in the snow, unless you had a dedicated set of snow tires that were no wider than 235. Personally, I'd garage it in the winter. Just me though.

M3 is similar to a Porsche. The brakes & suspension will put a nice dent in your wallet!!

[Wingnutts]

Originally Posted by mweisdorfer

335i with FBO, MHD stage 2+ w/ after mkt turbos is faster than a stock M3.

I'm fbo with stock twins still and those videos were almost painful to watch.

As a former e46 m3 owner, it was a nice car, but there is much more power out there for much less cost. EVERYTHING with a m3 cost more because of what it is associated with. I do miss my m3, but my 335is is much more fun to drive as I have built it, and for a fraction of the price too. I also do enjoy that most people don't have a clue what a 335 is, where with my m3, every damn Honda, Scion, Subaru and ... always wanted to race or drive like an asshole around me to try and get me to run them when I was just trying to get to work or take a kid to soccer practice or dance.



Just some things to add after quickly reviewing the 328 build.

Very nice work done to the 328. Everything looks to be well thought out and done thoroughly and well. As a 328xi 6spd owner as well, I personally couldn't justify the time and money it would take to improve the car and still not be anywhere near what a 335i is capable of. So I just bought another one to play with. But that is the beauty of what we do as enthusiast. We all have our own canvas we choose to work with. What you did, I wouldn't have. But, you did do a tremendous job with your build!

[iqraceworks]

My buddy has an E46 M3 with a BBK and lots of track mods. Honestly, on the street it felt pretty average....I like the power of my 335i much better. I'm sure that if you were tracking the car, the M3 would really shine.....but for a daily driver "fun" car, I would rather have something N54 powered. The M3 didn't really feel like it had much power until you really got high up in the rpms.

I will say that I love the way they look......

[Leucosticte]

Originally Posted by Wingnutts

I'm fbo with stock twins still and those videos were almost painful to watch.

As a former e46 m3 owner, it was a nice car, but there is much more power out there for much less cost. EVERYTHING with a m3 cost more because of what it is associated with. I do miss my m3, but my 335is is much more fun to drive as I have built it, and for a fraction of the price too. I also do enjoy that most people don't have a clue what a 335 is, where with my m3, every damn Honda, Scion, Subaru and ... always wanted to race or drive like an asshole around me to try and get me to run them when I was just trying to get to work or take a kid to soccer practice or dance.

I would just destroy them and go about my day

[Wingnutts]

Originally Posted by kakapo

I would just destroy them and go about my day

If I didn't have a kid in the back or on a conference call with a client, I usually did.

[stewbets]

Here's another vote for an N54. Of course, you get to decide what qualities you want most, but if power is the main one, N54 > S65 (provided you go FBO). But yeah, handling, aesthetics, and interior will all go in the M3's favor, as will attention (good and bad). I personally love how my 335xi puts the power to the ground, though many seem not to prefer its handling. Unfortunately, I forget how to drive now when I get in my far less powerful 545i or Suburban and end up sliding all over the place.

[Shrike360]

Alright, I'll provide a change of perspective on this side of the forum and take some heat. I had an '09 E90 335xi 6MT (with tune, intercooler, and KW V1s) that I sold for an '08 E92 M3 6MT. I’ve also had friends with big single N54s, so have been around the high power N54s. Last year I picked an '08 E61 535xi 6AT for daily and hauling duties. My E92 got destroyed at the end of June by an unlicensed driver. So, looking to replace it, I tested an M4, M2, M2C, GT350 and 718 Boxster. In the end, I bought an '09 E92 M3 6MT with low miles.

I would recommend the 335i if all you're doing with it is commuting, you only live somewhere with straight roads or the M3 is too much to comfortably swing. It's also worth adding, there are something like 3 E85 stations in my entire state, so stuck with pump gas power. My 335xi was a good car; good space, amazing in all weather, didn’t give me many problems and drove and pulled well. My 535xi just has an MHD tune and XHP stage 3 flash. In manual mode, it feels like driving a fat version of my old 335xi. Frankly, I'm getting tired of it. It's damn quick on the street, it's comfortable and has good space. However, I'm always on edge that something small is about to break, the transmission is dimwitted (in drive) and unresponsive most of the time, the AWD is awkward about shunting the power and the N54 is just so unresponsive itself. I'm seriously considering picking up a 3.0T Q5 in a year just because the engine is more responsive, reliable, is easily modded and has the far superior ZF8.

The M3 is just an experience to drive, and the S65 absolutely dominates the experience and feels incredibly special. The N54 is like riding a wave when driving fast, wait for the torque to hit and ride until it dies off about 6k RPM. Then grab another gear and ride the same wave. The S65 feels like it's about to take off, it feels faster and faster until you smack into the redline, then start right in the power on the next gear. It’s so responsive, it feels wired directly to your foot. With bolt ons (pulley, intake, test pipes and tune), it makes about 390 WHP, pulls strong and the intake/exhaust just scream an amazing noise. My N54 with DCI and modded exhaust can't touch that. The downside of the engine, it feels like perpetual blue balls in traffic since you can’t readily access the top end. Despite the “no torque!” comments, I can put it in 6th at 45 mph, and it will pull very cleanly and quickly despite not being in the power band. Handling is on a completely other level, with so much grip, precision and balance to exploit. Stock steering has similar feel to the base E90, but is much lighter. With a servotronic tune, it feels much more like a manual rack. It also looks amazing from the outside, and the interior feels much higher quality (particularly with extended leather). To top it off, never had a problem with either M3 over 2.5 years and about 20k miles. It’s a complete package I hadn’t found in any of the other cars I test drove, and probably the reason I’ll keep one until I can afford a GT3T.

[nsjames]

Keep ecobox 325 as reliable daily driver.

buy project car.

don't heavily mod your daily driver.
mistakes have been made.
lessons have been learned.

[slowcar]

Originally Posted by Shrike360

Alright, I'll provide a change of perspective on this side of the forum and take some heat. I had an '09 E90 335xi 6MT (with tune, intercooler, and KW V1s) that I sold for an '08 E92 M3 6MT. I’ve also had friends with big single N54s, so have been around the high power N54s. Last year I picked an '08 E61 535xi 6AT for daily and hauling duties. My E92 got destroyed at the end of June by an unlicensed driver. So, looking to replace it, I tested an M4, M2, M2C, GT350 and 718 Boxster. In the end, I bought an '09 E92 M3 6MT with low miles.

I would recommend the 335i if all you're doing with it is commuting, you only live somewhere with straight roads or the M3 is too much to comfortably swing. It's also worth adding, there are something like 3 E85 stations in my entire state, so stuck with pump gas power. My 335xi was a good car; good space, amazing in all weather, didn’t give me many problems and drove and pulled well. My 535xi just has an MHD tune and XHP stage 3 flash. In manual mode, it feels like driving a fat version of my old 335xi. Frankly, I'm getting tired of it. It's damn quick on the street, it's comfortable and has good space. However, I'm always on edge that something small is about to break, the transmission is dimwitted (in drive) and unresponsive most of the time, the AWD is awkward about shunting the power and the N54 is just so unresponsive itself. I'm seriously considering picking up a 3.0T Q5 in a year just because the engine is more responsive, reliable, is easily modded and has the far superior ZF8.

The M3 is just an experience to drive, and the S65 absolutely dominates the experience and feels incredibly special. The N54 is like riding a wave when driving fast, wait for the torque to hit and ride until it dies off about 6k RPM. Then grab another gear and ride the same wave. The S65 feels like it's about to take off, it feels faster and faster until you smack into the redline, then start right in the power on the next gear. It’s so responsive, it feels wired directly to your foot. With bolt ons (pulley, intake, test pipes and tune), it makes about 390 WHP, pulls strong and the intake/exhaust just scream an amazing noise. My N54 with DCI and modded exhaust can't touch that. The downside of the engine, it feels like perpetual blue balls in traffic since you can’t readily access the top end. Despite the “no torque!” comments, I can put it in 6th at 45 mph, and it will pull very cleanly and quickly despite not being in the power band. Handling is on a completely other level, with so much grip, precision and balance to exploit. Stock steering has similar feel to the base E90, but is much lighter. With a servotronic tune, it feels much more like a manual rack. It also looks amazing from the outside, and the interior feels much higher quality (particularly with extended leather). To top it off, never had a problem with either M3 over 2.5 years and about 20k miles. It’s a complete package I hadn’t found in any of the other cars I test drove, and probably the reason I’ll keep one until I can afford a GT3T.

I can understand the m3 being very special.

Got to test drive a few m5s today. in 500 sport mode, its just fucking violent. my guess is a similar feeling given the m3's lighter and smaller platform.

I just dont know if its worth the upgrade though. again, looking for purely a toy with the occasional cross country trip (and probably still keeping the 325i). slightly better handling and an engine that gets you into trouble very quickly. questions questions.

[Efthreeoh]

There are not many better cars to daily than an N52 E90. Great reliability, cheap to maintain, and lasts forever. If that's the majority of your needs then keep it.

I bought an E86 3.0si Coupe, which is a fantastic car to own. Low 5 second speeds. Not a rocket, but just enough for street driving. Too much power on the street just leads to tickets and liability.

If you really want speed, but concerned about the cost, then just get a sport bike.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

There are not many better cars to daily than an N52 E90. Great reliability, cheap to maintain, and lasts forever. If that's the majority of your needs then keep it.

I bought an E86 3.0si Coupe, which is a fantastic car to own. Low 5 second speeds. Not a rocket, but just enough for street driving. Too much power on the street just leads to tickets and liability.

If you really want speed, but concerned about the cost, then just get a sport bike.

it is a fact that it's way more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.

[mweisdorfer]

As long as you do your research, keep up on maintenance etc., a FBO 335i is reliable.

It's when you don't keep up on maintenance or don't do the research that you get in trouble.

I have 172,000 miles on my n54. I'd take it across country. I've also done a sh@t ton of maintenance on her too. The engine runs better than new.

Again, you have to be meticulous. The devil is in the details as they say. The n54 can be very temperamental, no question. However, I find that in most cases it's because someone put a tune on it w/ out doing the necessary prep (new injectors, coils, plugs, vacuum lines, intake gaskets, fluid changes etc.)

Yes, there's always the N54 that has something weird go like a starter ground or fuel regulator etc.

Overall, the N54 is an engine you MUST stay on top of and be proactive.

[blown07]

Originally Posted by nsjames

it is a fact that it's way more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.

What about a fast car fast?