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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > another high boost N54 engine failure



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      10-08-2010, 10:41 PM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Whatever happened to running 15 psi and stomping on some hondas?
That's just human nature. We always want more. Mo' money, mo' bitches, and mo' horsepowahhhh.
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      10-09-2010, 01:03 AM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themyst View Post
Whatever happened to running 15 psi and stomping on some hondas?
I suppose that is for sissys now. Even Dinan stage 3 with a warranty is limited to 15psi. The Procede is set at 16psi, I think there is an obvious reason tuners are shy to set the values any higher. Users then go ahead and ask for the poison pill. The tuner is partially guilty because he handed them the pill knowing they damn well intend to take it. User ultimately bares the lion's share of the blame here. I just think this doesn't prove the tune is dangerous, just that said tuner showed poor judgement though. But there are real consequences for the tuner; I for one would be scared off their tune. How many more out there wont touch it with a 10ft pole after seeing this? Just think about that. I am being honest. And the guys saying we are not children, you are so wrong. E90Post membership is mostly little kids in mens bodies.
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      10-09-2010, 01:50 AM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrance28 View Post
Are we forgetting that the user was using a modified 12ohm board and pushing the limits. Why is all the blame being pushed at BMS? Terry states the chances you are taking with these boards, but some guys want the extra power and don't realize they are going a little far... When you run the modified boards you run your own risks period.
Agree 100%. WTF happened to personal responsibility? We're turning into such a pussy, litigious society needing people to bubble wrap our asses so we won't chip a nail because we're not willing man up and accept the consequences for our own actions.
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      10-09-2010, 06:46 AM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrance28 View Post
I here what you are saying but we are not children here, everybody understands the risks involved. Because he disclosed what the "R" value will allow doesn't hold him or his tune at fault.
I agree to a certain extent. The issue I see is the public discussion of people racing this or running that and using an X resistor board. It has become so open to interpretation of what is safe and what is not, that the message of personal responsibility has been diluted.

And on the highlighted, I disagree. Many are young enough to be my children and of them, many act like children.
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      10-09-2010, 08:52 AM   #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Agree 100%. WTF happened to personal responsibility? We're turning into such a pussy, litigious society needing people to bubble wrap our asses so we won't chip a nail because we're not willing man up and accept the consequences for our own actions.
+1 Its like the people who sue fast food restaurants for making them fat asses. Nobody shoved the hamburger into their mouths but somehow the restaurants are at fault? We are all grown here, even though a tuner runs x and pushes it to y, doesn't mean we have no control of what happens to our cars. I would think atleast we would know what responsibilty is. We want to do what we want then when the shit hits the fan we point the finger(not saying that the guy who blew his engine did, but thats what this thread sounds like). I knew what I was getting into when I started modding and so does everyone else. If you choose to push the envelope, its your car you have the right too, but be ready to front the bill when shit happens its really that simple. Terry didn't force anybody to make them modify their car past the regular safety measures. Some of us are more power hungry than some and we should learn to accept the consequences when stuff happens.
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Last edited by Terrance28; 10-09-2010 at 09:04 AM..
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      10-09-2010, 08:55 AM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
I agree to a certain extent. The issue I see is the public discussion of people racing this or running that and using an X resistor board. It has become so open to interpretation of what is safe and what is not, that the message of personal responsibility has been diluted.

And on the highlighted, I disagree. Many are young enough to be my children and of them, many act like children.
understandable.
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      10-09-2010, 08:56 AM   #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Agree 100%. WTF happened to personal responsibility? We're turning into such a pussy, litigious society needing people to bubble wrap our asses so we won't chip a nail because we're not willing man up and accept the consequences for our own actions.
I think that is the most truthful statement that has ever been posted on the internet! YOU take the risk when you buy a tuner. It can cause other issues. It stresses parts. If you want a factory warranty don't modify your car. If you don't want the risk don't double your boost psi. You see the same stuff with the diesel trucks. People want to raise boost and run the cars hard, but when something fails they have to have someone else to blame. This isn't in response to the guy the blew his motor up so much as it is those that say Terry is to blame. I've never run Terry's stuff, and when I had a 335i I had a Procede on it. Running meth doesn't make a piston any stronger than it is. It makes the conditions safer if run properly, but it doesn't "bulletproof" a setup. If a ring land broke, detonation occurred. What caused the detonation is an entirely different discussion (i.e. too much timing, too little fuel, or both). A set of forged pistons also doesn't make an engine bulletproof. It will take a lot more abuse before it breaks, but detonation can destroy anything given enough time.

It sucks that it happened, but such is life. Nobody holds a gun to your head to push your car to the limits. Just be ready to accept the responsibility and pay for the fix when you blow it up. If you can't afford to fix it I don't recommend pushing it as hard.
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      10-09-2010, 10:11 AM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
...Personally, if I was in the n54 game right now I would spend more to buy a Procede with PROVEN results than to jump on a new G4 product from BMS.
really?

CAN data is CAN data. X Algorithms are added on top of that data to get Y result.

The algorithms aren't and have never been a problem for BMS. Now that there is real timing control, the difference in competition just got smaller.

The power results have been the SAME for a while now with a big price difference it tunes.
The WAY they got those results differed, and some paid for that difference, thats fine.
Now that isn't the case.
Product A offering the same as product B, the same way, getting the same result, but at a cheaper price point, well, best of luck.
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      10-09-2010, 10:38 AM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeOne View Post
really?

CAN data is CAN data. X Algorithms are added on top of that data to get Y result.

The algorithms aren't and have never been a problem for BMS. Now that there is real timing control, the difference in competition just got smaller.

The power results have been the SAME for a while now with a big price difference it tunes.
The WAY they got those results differed, and some paid for that difference, thats fine.
Now that isn't the case.
Product A offering the same as product B, the same way, getting the same result, but at a cheaper price point, well, best of luck.
The problem is that BMS has exhibited a lack of tuning knowledge and good judgment. Marketing a product that is completely unstable (variable boost control, no timing control, marginal failsafes, no output monitoring, etc) to those who are looking for a max power tune is just one glaring example. Sevak is obviously trying to seek compensation through BMS. Depending on how that goes, we may hear both sides of the story.
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      10-09-2010, 11:11 AM   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeOne View Post
really?

The algorithms aren't and have never been a problem for BMS.
Of course they have........

What do you think caused the throttle closure issues on earlier versions of JB?

Algorithms that couldn't predict every single throttle input and resulted in boost overshoot.

That was one of the main reasons I switched over.

There are plenty of posts by Terry himself over on N54**** citing his ongoing development of algorithms to control boost.

In fact IIRC, one of his members was an engineer and was helping him with suggestions for the PID parameters with which to program. That to me was the definitive sign that BMS lacked the knowledge on how to stabilize this tuning parameter.

IMO direct boost control does a better job than writing algorithm upon algorithm just to fool the DME into thinking it is running stock boost.

That's a pretty difficult way to manage boost control......but BMS stated that the benefit was you get to keep all the factory safety systems intact.

Indeed!

Last edited by Ilma; 10-09-2010 at 11:17 AM..
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      10-09-2010, 11:20 AM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeOne View Post
really?

CAN data is CAN data. X Algorithms are added on top of that data to get Y result.

The algorithms aren't and have never been a problem for BMS. Now that there is real timing control, the difference in competition just got smaller.

The power results have been the SAME for a while now with a big price difference it tunes.
The WAY they got those results differed, and some paid for that difference, thats fine.
Now that isn't the case.
Product A offering the same as product B, the same way, getting the same result, but at a cheaper price point, well, best of luck.
well since Terry hasnt managed to do that during the entire lifespan of BMS and is again behind.......do you really think his 1st try at the new technique will be perfect? I sure as hell dont.
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      10-09-2010, 11:27 AM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The problem is that BMS has exhibited a lack of tuning knowledge and good judgment. Marketing a product that is completely unstable (variable boost control, no timing control, marginal failsafes, no output monitoring, etc) to those who are looking for a max power tune is just one glaring example. Sevak is obviously trying to seek compensation through BMS. Depending on how that goes, we may hear both sides of the story.
Really? That means if terry is offereing to help with the cost, we will never hear the true story here. I knew this would happen.
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      10-09-2010, 12:10 PM   #387
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If he is getting compensated I wonder why he didn't offer it to Enrita! I do find it strange that Sevak has not posted anything so far. Either he is sick to his stomach of what happened with his car or something is swaying him to hold off on his post
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      10-09-2010, 12:15 PM   #388
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I am finding the sheer panic both here and N54tech, based so far nearly 100% in speculation, to be pretty entertaining. Considering so far there have been less than a handful of failures in somewhere around 5-10,000 tuned cars.... I am at a total loss as to why everyone is freaking out. I'd be willing to bet the failure rate of OEM motors is higher than the above failure rate of tuned motors here on the boards that everyone is panicking about in a nearly 100% uninformed fashion.

So what is the big deal? Frankly, until Sevak posts what ACTUALLY happened, these 18 pages of pure speculation, rhetoric and hype are completely useless, IMHO.
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      10-09-2010, 12:22 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I am finding the sheer panic both here and N54tech, based so far nearly 100% in speculation, to be pretty entertaining. Considering so far there have been less than a handful of failures in somewhere around 5-10,000 tuned cars.... I am at a total loss as to why everyone is freaking out. I'd be willing to bet the failure rate of OEM motors is higher than the above failure rate of tuned motors here on the boards that everyone is panicking about in a nearly 100% uninformed fashion.

So what is the big deal? Frankly, until Sevak posts what ACTUALLY happened, these 18 pages of pure speculation, rhetoric and hype are completely useless, IMHO.
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      10-09-2010, 12:29 PM   #390
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It would be far less ridiculous if there was any sort of FACTUAL EVIDENCE posted in any of these threads..... LOL. The discussion is completely pointless until someone (a) pulls the head, or at least whips out a bore scope, and (b) checks the fuel system for any failures, as well as the spark plugs
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      10-09-2010, 12:30 PM   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
I am finding the sheer panic both here and N54tech, based so far nearly 100% in speculation, to be pretty entertaining. Considering so far there have been less than a handful of failures in somewhere around 5-10,000 tuned cars.... I am at a total loss as to why everyone is freaking out. I'd be willing to bet the failure rate of OEM motors is higher than the above failure rate of tuned motors here on the boards that everyone is panicking about in a nearly 100% uninformed fashion.

So what is the big deal? Frankly, until Sevak posts what ACTUALLY happened, these 18 pages of pure speculation, rhetoric and hype are completely useless, IMHO.
you're a bore..
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      10-09-2010, 12:32 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco View Post
you're a bore..
If you want entertainment, go to Vegas. If you want a factual analysis as to why a motor failed, take it apart. LOL
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      10-09-2010, 12:37 PM   #393
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Clearly Sevak is obviously not posting anything until he finds a resolution/andor/solution.

So this thread should just be closed until he comes in with something.

As it is the amount of arrogance and ignorance in this thread is useless to anyone, as it would take an eternity to pick through all the false information.

This thread is an example of Brainwashing 101.
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      10-09-2010, 12:38 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSlick View Post
Clearly Sevak is obviously not posting anything until he finds a resolution.

So this thread should just be closed until he comes in with something.

As it is the amount of arrogance and ignorance in this thread is useless to anyone, as it would take an eternity to pick through all the false information.

This thread is an example of Brainwashing 101.
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      10-09-2010, 12:41 PM   #395
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If you want entertainment, go to Vegas. If you want a factual analysis as to why a motor failed, take it apart. LOL
i know, i know. you came with the water bucket of reality i wasn't done being entertained.

i'm pretty interested in hearing all this from sevak, until then
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      10-09-2010, 12:48 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco View Post
i know, i know. you came with the water bucket of reality i wasn't done being entertained.

i'm pretty interested in hearing all this from sevak, until then


I know, I found thread entertaining as well. The problem is, it leads to a LOT of people being VERY mis-informed.
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