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      08-18-2015, 10:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ao1
MAN15H its not wasted space if you read post 11. Also SSD's are now much cheaper. The first SSD I purchased was an Intel X25 E. £600 for 32GB. What you are getting with an SSD is much faster performance. Instant boot up and faster map zooming.
Good point. Even if you were still to expand the music partition it would be good to leave some unallocated free space.
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      08-18-2015, 11:33 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litany
Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
I dont understand what this thread is about. I don't even know what SSD means :
Basically is about cloning CIC hard drives. From old, slow toshiba 4500 rpm to SSD, (solid state disc) new generation of hard drives
Oh right. Sounds like a good option to explore then
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      08-18-2015, 11:58 AM   #25
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There is also one other benefit. The HDD that is used in the satnav is slow (4,500 rpm) compared to what you would use in a PC (7,200 or even 10,000 rpm) to help avoid damage from vibration. Despite this all HDDs are doomed to failure at some stage. From what I understand if the HDD fails BMW will not replace the HDD, they will replace the complete satnav unit. An SSD will also fail at some stage, but you have the HDD as a back-up.
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      08-19-2015, 09:37 AM   #26
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Limited success to report:

Using the dd image (which I trust more since it is bit-for-bit) I have successfully mounted the 6 volumes in Ubuntu. Of note, they are QNX6 filesystems and not QNX4 (even though the partition ID would indicate otherwise, that is they are type 77 instead of 177). Attempts to mount them as QNX4 failed as it thought they were corrupted.

This means they are not encrypted and that it seems the copied partition table works correctly on the 128G drive. Further, since we can mount them, we can probably manually delete, recreate (bigger), and copy the music storage files to make that a larger partition. That will be a later test.

For now, here is what I can determine each partition is used for (I list them 1-6 being the order they show up on disk, but in Linux you see them as 5-10).

1 - 56G - Navigation
2 - 3G - Gracenote
3 - 1.6G - Speech
4 - 1.1G - System and contacts?
5 - 12.7G - Music storage
6 - 165M - System?

FYI, here is the fdisk output (from Mac OS X) of the original disk:

Code:
Disk: /dev/disk2	geometry: 9729/255/63 [156301488 sectors]
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 05    0   1   1 - 1023 254  63 [        63 -  156296322] Extended DOS
 2: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D    0   2   1 - 1023 254  63 [       126 -  117451089] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 117451215 -    6152895] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 117451278 -    6152832] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 123604110 -    3421845] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 123604173 -    3421782] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 127025955 -    2297295] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 127026018 -    2297232] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 129323250 -   26635770] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 129323313 -   26635707] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 155959020 -     337365] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 155959083 -     337302] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused

Last edited by kioneo; 08-19-2015 at 07:15 PM..
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      08-19-2015, 07:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ao1 View Post
Did you leave a jumper on the drive you copied to? (Slave/ Master set jumper)
The connector on the CIC apparently captures those master/slave pins. I tried putting a jumper but it won't slide in. I got confirmation from Super Talent that their drive is master without any jumpers. This matches what I can find about the Toshiba drive.
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      08-21-2015, 09:46 AM   #28
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Just did this today with a Zheino 128GB IDE SSD (65 from Amazon). I did a straight clone of the 80GB disk onto the SSD using Ease-Us Disk Copy (http://www.easeus.com/disk-copy/index.htm) and the CIC was perfectly happy with the new SSD at the end. Haven't had chance to play and see if anything is quicker yet, but I'm pleased to at least have a backup drive now in case of problems in the future.
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      08-21-2015, 11:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kioneo View Post
Limited success to report:

Using the dd image (which I trust more since it is bit-for-bit) I have successfully mounted the 6 volumes in Ubuntu. Of note, they are QNX6 filesystems and not QNX4 (even though the partition ID would indicate otherwise, that is they are type 77 instead of 177). Attempts to mount them as QNX4 failed as it thought they were corrupted.

This means they are not encrypted and that it seems the copied partition table works correctly on the 128G drive. Further, since we can mount them, we can probably manually delete, recreate (bigger), and copy the music storage files to make that a larger partition. That will be a later test.

For now, here is what I can determine each partition is used for (I list them 1-6 being the order they show up on disk, but in Linux you see them as 5-10).

1 - 56G - Navigation
2 - 3G - Gracenote
3 - 1.6G - Speech
4 - 1.1G - System and contacts?
5 - 12.7G - Music storage
6 - 165M - System?

FYI, here is the fdisk output (from Mac OS X) of the original disk:

Code:
Disk: /dev/disk2	geometry: 9729/255/63 [156301488 sectors]
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 05    0   1   1 - 1023 254  63 [        63 -  156296322] Extended DOS
 2: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D    0   2   1 - 1023 254  63 [       126 -  117451089] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 117451215 -    6152895] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 117451278 -    6152832] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 123604110 -    3421845] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 123604173 -    3421782] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 127025955 -    2297295] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 127026018 -    2297232] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 129323250 -   26635770] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 129323313 -   26635707] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 05 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 155959020 -     337365] Extended DOS
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1: 4D 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [ 155959083 -     337302] QNX 4.2 Pri 
 2: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused
Hmm that is interesting, I wonder if you resized the partitions accordingly (keeping the same filesystem) and have a healthy partition table, whether the CIC firmware would cope with the increased size. I got a funny feeling the logical addressing space is hardcoded into the firmware, and therefore it won't even attempt to write to or read from a block outside the original 12GB (?) the CIC firmware supports.

Last edited by Sbm007; 08-21-2015 at 11:26 AM..
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      08-21-2015, 11:54 AM   #30
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After trying more things I'm beginning to think the system isn't seeing my hard drive, but have no way to confirm. There are references to mount points (under /mnt) and it would seem logical that if those mount points aren't there the applications (ie Nav) won't work. However, the system boots OK. This also has me wondering if the OS is actually on the HDD or if it resides in a flash module directly and the HDD is just for supplemental data. My issues may simply stem from using an SSD that is just different enough in some way from the proven Zheino unit.
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      08-25-2015, 09:32 AM   #31
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No-one managed to resize the partitions then?
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      08-28-2015, 04:45 PM   #32
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Has anyone here used Paragon Software Suite 15? Under copy disk option I have Hdd raw copy or Partition raw copy. Sreenshot below.

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/8339/ByZJmG.jpg

Could someone kindly let me know which I should select for a bit by bit exact clone of drive.

I tried cloning with Macrium reflect using forensic exact copy option checked and it didnt work. Clone went successfully, but nav was greyed out on idrive with function not available

Thanks
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      08-29-2015, 04:55 AM   #33
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^ use the HDD raw copy.
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      08-29-2015, 08:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy Singh
Has anyone here used Paragon Software Suite 15? Under copy disk option I have Hdd raw copy or Partition raw copy. Sreenshot below.

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/8339/ByZJmG.jpg

Could someone kindly let me know which I should select for a bit by bit exact clone of drive.

I tried cloning with Macrium reflect using forensic exact copy option checked and it didnt work. Clone went successfully, but nav was greyed out on idrive with function not available

Thanks
If the raw copy still doesn't work, what brand SSD do you have? I had the exact same symptoms with my SuperTalent drive. We know from reports that the Zheino works perfectly. And I'm sure there are others that do too.
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      08-29-2015, 09:00 AM   #35
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Thank you for your suggestions guys, I'm trying with hdd raw copy now using paragon. I'm using the Zheino pata ssd 128gb
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      08-29-2015, 10:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
^ use the HDD raw copy
Thanks for suggestion, but this didn't work either. I did the clone without the jumper on the Zheino drive. Of course the jumper cant remain afterwards as the drive will not slide into the cic.

Any other cloning software that you guys can suggest. Neither Macrium nor Paragon worked for me.

Thanks
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      08-29-2015, 10:57 AM   #37
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I used Paragon 15.The clue to why it works is in the penultimate sentence
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      08-29-2015, 11:43 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy Singh View Post
Thanks for suggestion, but this didn't work either. I did the clone without the jumper on the Zheino drive. Of course the jumper cant remain afterwards as the drive will not slide into the cic.

Any other cloning software that you guys can suggest. Neither Macrium nor Paragon worked for me.

Thanks
Clonezilla has had reported success. dd on Linux should also work. Note that if doing dd, be *VERY* careful you get the if and of parameters correct. "if" must refer to the original drive, and "of" must refer to your new drive or image file (if making an image of the drive and not copying drive to drive at the same time).. Get them wrong and you may overwrite your original drive.

That said, I wonder if you and I have something else going on because I too could never find a solution. The car I'm trying on is a 2011 335i. The software version of the car is pretty old as I recall (2011-2013 maybe). I don't know if perhaps you and I have a different CIC version than other folks have had success with.

I feel your frustration.
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      08-29-2015, 11:46 AM   #39
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One other note. Try rebooting the CIC by holding down the power/mute/volume button for about 20 seconds. Maybe your CIC just didn't see the drive on boot up.
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      08-29-2015, 12:12 PM   #40
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Paragon works. Try a secure erase with hdderase and start from scratch.
http://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?t=9993&start=
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      08-30-2015, 09:19 AM   #41
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Quote:
Paragon works. Try a secure erase with hdderase and start from scratch.
Thanks for the tips, so it seems paragon does work. Not really sure whats going on.

Hdderase utility didn't load at all with more than 2gb ram. I tried with 2gb ram and 32bit os with both ide and ahci mode in bios and when the utility did finally load up, it never saw the zheino drive or any other drive for that matter. All I got was P0 None and P1 None.

I then used HD Tune Pro utility which did see the drive, and used the erase function to zero fill the zheino ssd.

After erasing, I left the jumper plugged into the zheino drive when I cloned (still using hdd raw copy in paragon) and then removed it when I slid it into the cic unit. After reconnecting the car battery and starting up, then reseting the cic through the mute button, everything was working fine. With a huge smile on my face, I proceeded to put the system through its paces with selecting guidance options, zooming in and out on the map scale etc to ensure that the system integrity was intact.

Relieved that the task was now complete, after a few minutes of the system running, I got a red screen on the cic display and the system rebooted and came back online only to have the nav option greyed out again

Turned the car off and restarted it again after 10mins and now everything is back to normal again. I suppose time will tell, I will let the car sleep overnight and see what hapens when I return to it in the morning. I read that another member installed an ssd and it worked for a few days and then it didn't, so I'm still not confident about the whole thing.

I'm not sure if it was the erasing of the zheino or leaving the jumper connected to it the second time around when cloning that cured the problem, I just hope that in the morning the system is still working.

Thanks for the help folks
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      08-30-2015, 10:37 AM   #42
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Excellent news! Glad it worked. Please do keep us posted on whether it continues to work over time.
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      10-30-2015, 09:03 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy Singh View Post
Thanks for the tips, so it seems paragon does work. Not really sure whats going on.

Hdderase utility didn't load at all with more than 2gb ram. I tried with 2gb ram and 32bit os with both ide and ahci mode in bios and when the utility did finally load up, it never saw the zheino drive or any other drive for that matter. All I got was P0 None and P1 None.

I then used HD Tune Pro utility which did see the drive, and used the erase function to zero fill the zheino ssd.

After erasing, I left the jumper plugged into the zheino drive when I cloned (still using hdd raw copy in paragon) and then removed it when I slid it into the cic unit. After reconnecting the car battery and starting up, then reseting the cic through the mute button, everything was working fine. With a huge smile on my face, I proceeded to put the system through its paces with selecting guidance options, zooming in and out on the map scale etc to ensure that the system integrity was intact.

Relieved that the task was now complete, after a few minutes of the system running, I got a red screen on the cic display and the system rebooted and came back online only to have the nav option greyed out again

Turned the car off and restarted it again after 10mins and now everything is back to normal again. I suppose time will tell, I will let the car sleep overnight and see what hapens when I return to it in the morning. I read that another member installed an ssd and it worked for a few days and then it didn't, so I'm still not confident about the whole thing.

I'm not sure if it was the erasing of the zheino or leaving the jumper connected to it the second time around when cloning that cured the problem, I just hope that in the morning the system is still working.

Thanks for the help folks
Has anyone had success with the supertalent? The Zheino is not rated for higher temps and that's why it may be failing later while the Supertalent is rate for up to 85c.
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      10-30-2015, 09:16 AM   #44
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I can give you an update on my install. Faultless two months later.

One thing I have noticed however is that I suspect that the superfast boot up time is due the SSD not going into sleep mode. I say this as I recently did a lot of work on my car that involved power drain from the battery. The battery got below a certain limit and the car shut everything down. I had to reset the time when I started the car and noticed that the satnav boot up was quite slow. Once the battery was topped up the boot up speed went back to being superfast.

If I am correct and the SSD is not going into sleep mode the battery drain would be negligible so it is nothing to worry about but boot up time is more to do with the lack of a sleep mode rather than the SSD.

The main benefit for me (other than the fast boot up) is the greatly improved time it takes to zoom in or out of the map.
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