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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 ESS Supercharger issues



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      07-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #23
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Oh, deleting the CDV is probably essential. If I hadn't deleted that previously I suspect I may be having issues with burning the crap out of my clutch.
thanks for the reply. I'm supercharging my manual e91 and bob said on the phone that they have had clutches fail. but ill be putting a new clutch in the car and was worried i need to upgrade beyond a fresh clutch.
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      07-18-2019, 08:04 PM   #24
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Shop did a smoke test, no leaks anywhere in the system. They also looked at the pins going to the MAF and are squeaky clean. They were getting 14.88 AFR which is way too lean. They suspect fuel injector issues, so they are swapping back the N52 ones to see if AFR changes. If that doesn't work; have no idea what's next? The injectors were used so maybe that's it? I do know the car ran great with the stock injectors and 120mm pulley but I think the limp mode was caused by the bad change pipe and TB side leak. Maybe the AFR issues are all injector related, but why does the car seem fine some times and complete trash others? I do still have the fuel pump that came with the V1 kit if that might be an issue. Pm me your email and I can send you logs!
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      07-18-2019, 08:09 PM   #25
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Yeah, a leak would be the first thing in my mind. I've got a boost leak kit that I built with all my previous turbo builds that I've been meaning to use to make sure I don't have any. It's a simple device. A coupler with a cap on the end and a regulator and air compressor fitting so I can feed the desired boost +5psi to the compressor intake. Then just spray soapy water at all the couplers. That along with a compression test have helped me diagnose many issues.

The severity of the issues you are having is odd. An electrical issue us very likely in my mind. I assume you disconnected the MAF signal line and properly insulated it? I depinned the yellow line, versus cutting it, and shrink wrapped the loose pin with the heat shrink melted and pinched to ensure against the possibility of errant signals.

I'd like to see the logs, what app are you using to log? crehren@comcast.net
Sorry didn't see your email. I sent you a few logs, read the email chain below for context.
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      07-18-2019, 10:29 PM   #26
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I reviewed a bit and replied to your email. Let's take this to the email route until you resolve the problem.

PS, did you send the injectors out for cleaning, blueprinting and matching? Never blindly throw in used injectors.
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      07-19-2019, 12:40 PM   #27
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S65 Injectors were bench tested and fine. N52 injectors made the car even worst while they were in. Shop thinks the tune is causing the issue. Talked to Bob and said the car might not be getting enough fuel based on what the pulley is pumping out. He's bumping fueling up 20% to see if that helps. He said a few N52 Z4s he's tuned are pushing 10-11 psi with the 110mm pulley at 7200, so its quite possible there's an issue causing it lean. I'm going to flash the new tune and see if that moves us into the right direction. Getting the P3 vent gauge next week and hopefully dyno next weekend. We can dial the tune in once it's on there showing real data if all's good.
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      07-20-2019, 09:23 AM   #28
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I decided to give her a 20 mile ride yesterday and BANG, this damn hose pops out again. Can't accelerate. Can't do a damn thing. For whatever reason, all I could think was Michael f$%kng Coates lmfao. I'm rooting for you to figure out the tuning... would be great to drive this thing without biting my lip.
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      07-20-2019, 02:01 PM   #29
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I decided to give her a 20 mile ride yesterday and BANG, this damn hose pops out again. Can't accelerate. Can't do a damn thing. For whatever reason, all I could think was Michael f$%kng Coates lmfao. I'm rooting for you to figure out the tuning... would be great to drive this thing without biting my lip.
Dude! Call ESS, the new pipe fits perfectly! After two revised tunes with added fueling, I want to say problem solved but I haven't logged enough miles to determine that conclusively. I had one instance driving home last night that the idle was all over the place at a light. I'm starting to see a correlation to erratic idle to when the oil temps get over 220. I didn't have my data logger so not sure what was going on.

I'll get more miles on the car and let it fully adapt.

Get a new charge pipe Lee!
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      07-20-2019, 02:10 PM   #30
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Dude! Call ESS, the new pipe fits perfectly! After two revised tunes with added fueling, I want to say problem solved but I haven't logged enough miles to determine that conclusively. I had one instance driving home last night that the idle was all over the place at a light. I'm starting to see a correlation to erratic idle to when the oil temps get over 220. I didn't have my data logger so not sure what was going on.

I'll get more miles on the car and let it fully adapt.

Get a new charge pipe Lee!
You better believe I took that picture and sent it to ESS immediately. Viola they responded within a few hours. Haven't heard from them in months, many many months. Pipe should be here next week. This would be my 3rd hose. I am about to remove everything and put it back to stock. I hope this works out. I never bothered to install my AA headers because I just had so much trouble time and time again. I am so fatigued that I don't even want to do a transplant or anything... I just want the car to drive reliably. I sold my P3 vent gauge, great but basically useless since my car was barely on the road. My M3 and M5 are enough right now for fun, I just need this thing to drive without thinking its going to turn off.
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      07-20-2019, 09:00 PM   #31
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thanks for the reply. I'm supercharging my manual e91 and bob said on the phone that they have had clutches fail. but ill be putting a new clutch in the car and was worried i need to upgrade beyond a fresh clutch.
I'm not sure how old my clutch is. It's always a risk. The previous owner of my car had BMW do ALL servicing, so I'm certain it's the OEM clutch. I should have it in all the records he gave me...

Without deleting the CDV (clutch delay valve) the clutch will slip a TON every time you let off the pedal while giving it hard throttle. I had a lot of that while my car was stock, deleted that stupid valve and all has been well since.

I really don't think you would need much more than a stronger pressure plate if you do have issues.



What kit is everyone running? Which version and which supercharger? I'm running the new kit with ESS' G1 supercharger, a 115mm pulley and the supplied S65 injectors.
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      07-21-2019, 09:53 AM   #32
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You better believe I took that picture and sent it to ESS immediately. Viola they responded within a few hours. Haven't heard from them in months, many many months. Pipe should be here next week. This would be my 3rd hose. I am about to remove everything and put it back to stock. I hope this works out. I never bothered to install my AA headers because I just had so much trouble time and time again. I am so fatigued that I don't even want to do a transplant or anything... I just want the car to drive reliably. I sold my P3 vent gauge, great but basically useless since my car was barely on the road. My M3 and M5 are enough right now for fun, I just need this thing to drive without thinking its going to turn off.
Man threads like this is what has me steering clear of the S/C kit for our cars. Just seems like a lot of frustration and aggravation. I really would love to have the added power, but check lights and rough running seems too common in every s/c thread. Ugh!!!!
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      07-21-2019, 08:58 PM   #33
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Man threads like this is what has me steering clear of the S/C kit for our cars. Just seems like a lot of frustration and aggravation. I really would love to have the added power, but check lights and rough running seems too common in every s/c thread. Ugh!!!!
At times I wonder if I am am the only one who is lucky enough to get this kit running on my DD, although I did go through a lot of trouble to get it running.

For the record, I ran the ESS kit with 120mm pulley, custom MAFless tune and S65 injectors.
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      07-21-2019, 09:51 PM   #34
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I've had a very easy go of it. Four and a half hours to install and everything running well. My SC is leaking a bit more oil on the compressor side than I'm comfortable with so they're sending me a new unit. The car is fine to drive and the CS isn't low on oil at all, this is more a matter of preventing problems in the future. It'll take an hour to swap so no biggie. I haven't had any tune issues nor problems with I'll fitting components
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      07-26-2019, 08:30 AM   #35
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Figured I would share an update. The problem definitely does seem like it's only occurring when the car temps (oil temp) goes past 210. Bob thinks maybe it might be related to enrichment fueling to protect the CATs? Car runs like a dream until the rich conditions or bouncing idle hits when it's hot. Also had an instance where car was 11 AFR while cruising and when i tried to give a little throttle it would go down in the 10s, felt terrible. I do have logs of that. Here's a situation that happened yesterday.

I took the car out yesterday for food, in the drivethru idle stumbled hard once sitting temp went past 210. Actually thought it was going to stall out, turned on the AC full blast thinking the fan on high duty would lower the engine temps and the wild idle slowed and then stopped. I was in the drive through for 20 minutes (yeah i know!) first 5 minutes engine was below 210 and idle stable; - few minutes later, engine past 210 and idle bouncing, turned AC on, seemed to immediately help a little. I did also take it off AC when the idle was still bouncing and just had the fan running on the highest setting, car went super bizurk, much harder bouncing and faster so I pressed AC button and it finally smoothed out. Again I didn't have the datalogger so no clue what was happening but I'll try and replicate today. Sounds weird right?

I also notice the car is cooler than normal after these last couple of revisions, sits just north of 210 around 220. I wonder if I was lean through my last BPC tune as well making the car run hotter, it would always run around 240-250 when fully warmed up.
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      07-26-2019, 09:35 AM   #36
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I installed the new hose yesterday. Since its actually attached its noticeably better. Did a supercharger maintenance. Still have random idle and running issues. I may go in for a custom tune when my new suspension is in. If things continue after that I'm taking it off.
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      07-26-2019, 11:12 AM   #37
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I thought when the car is hot you should turn the heat to max to help it. Not the ac. Maybe i got it wrong
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      07-26-2019, 11:51 AM   #38
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I was going to drive 60 miles today to P3 to get the boost gauge installed and while the car was cool and being datalogged I'm super lean with any throttle (17-20 AFR) and while idling stationary in drive I'm rich (10-12 AFR)

I don't trust this enough to take it 5 miles from my house let alone 60, I don't know if I have the energy anymore to keep going. Shops keep telling me it's a tuning issue not sure what to do at this point. Something I did notice is when I pop it in neutral the car goes back to commanded AFR at 14.5-14.7 and idle is smooth, not sure if there's a significance to this or if it's even important data.

I sat stationary for 15 minutes but couldn't replicate the bouncing idle but also couldn't get the car to get above 210 on the oil temp gauge. Again can't even confirm if this is related since my issues are so random.

Uuuggghhhh! This was suppose to be a quick PnP fun install to mess around with this summer!!!
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      07-26-2019, 11:52 AM   #39
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I thought when the car is hot you should turn the heat to max to help it. Not the ac. Maybe i got it wrong
That's what I thought too but the idle seemed smoother with AC on?
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      07-26-2019, 12:22 PM   #40
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I thought when the car is hot you should turn the heat to max to help it. Not the ac. Maybe i got it wrong
That's what I thought too but the idle seemed smoother with AC on?
Are you able to log both target and actual AFR at the same time? I would expect the DME to throw a code if the there is too much variation between them.

If everything is running correctly, you can't alter the coolant temp by turning on the heater vs the AC. The DME controls the coolant temp and has multiple programmed temperatures. Something like 90-105. Economy mode vs power.
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      07-26-2019, 12:33 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Michaellcoates View Post
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Originally Posted by rick100 View Post
I thought when the car is hot you should turn the heat to max to help it. Not the ac. Maybe i got it wrong
That's what I thought too but the idle seemed smoother with AC on?
Are you able to log both target and actual AFR at the same time? I would expect the DME to throw a code if the there is too much variation between them.

If everything is running correctly, you can't alter the coolant temp by turning on the heater vs the AC. The DME controls the coolant temp and has multiple programmed temperatures. Something like 90-105. Economy mode vs power.
Yes I can monitor commanded AFR and metered AFR commanded was sitting at 14.5-14.7 at idle and was averaging 11.5, when giving it throttle for cruising its commanding 14.7-15 but running 17-20 AFR.

I grabbed lunch and came back to start my car, for 15 minutes it's been reading steady dead nuts on AFR commanded to metered.

Haha like is said so random
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      07-26-2019, 12:45 PM   #42
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From Bob:

your fuel trims look a lot better than before (+/- 11 vs +/-25), I just need to make a few more adjustments to the fuel scaling. Also just a side note your intake air temps are really high and that data is read before the blower. That can also cause issues with ignition timing and fueling. The AFR command during part throttle is correct, however at idle its not and as the intake air temp sensor heat soaks at idle it gets closer to the correct intake air temp thats post blower and the AFR starts to match. This is another big issue with the ESS kit that it does not relocate the intake air temp sensor post blower where it should be.
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      07-26-2019, 08:28 PM   #43
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Hey NYBulldog what port did you tap for the P3 analog boost reading?
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      07-27-2019, 09:39 AM   #44
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Hey NYBulldog what port did you tap for the P3 analog boost reading?
My shop recommended this as a clear spot for it. They put a small nozzle. Worked perfect. Probably the only thing that worked perfect lmao.

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