[Bof]

Updated today. Had engine limp mode once.
Car production date 07/07 old software e89x-07-06-520 (plant level)
New code e89x-10-12-503 ISTA/P version 40.3.0.3

DME/DDE Program old 7575878 new 7626228

No new HPFP or injectors. Just programming.

Didn't notice much difference except one instance. I turned my car off and then restarted it when warm and it seemed to cough on engine start. Almost like a backfire but quieter. A cough.


Not so sure.

[MentalJelly]

Wow this thread has some serious traffic.

I am a new owner of an '08 e92 335xi with 27k miles. I had the system updated for the HPFP issue just after purchasing it, but the dealer did not replace the pump or injectors yet.

I am noticing a pretty big lag when shifting from first to second (the car is an Auto). I have figured out how to minimize it by controlling the throttle, but the wife has not gotten that nailed yet. Needless to say the lag is VERY annoying. Is the only remedy for this issue to have the turbos swapped?

I appreciate any info you guys can provide.

[Quisp]

Tomorrow my new car(new to me)is being delivered, and it doesnt have the N54, or wastegates.......I will give you a hint...M6

[iScream]

just checking in for old time's sake. been a long while.

Can't believe this thread is still relatively current. Congrats Quisp on the M6, nice ride!

[zirophil]

BMW

I am French, leaving in France, near German border. This permits opportunity to find beautiful German cars ☺

So that, I bought in Germany an used 335i (model 2007/03) on nov-2009, with 28000kms.
It has already this rattle trouble when I bought it. I thought then it was nothing important, and I could wait until the next car maintenance. Car is stock. Power, torque and throttle response is good.

But, as it annoyed me more and more, I decided to go to my BMW garage to fix the problem (car is now 36000kms).

They claimed it was not so important and that there is a software way to solve the trouble.

After an update of the firmware (I don’t know the version), rattle was still there, but car was more responsive when we press on gas pedal. Car was quite aggressive, less smooth. (After reading the forum, and share of all who had the problem, this is surprising!). I paid about 100Eur for this update which did not get rid of rattle problem…

Then garage said that they had to replace 2x turbo + 2x actuator valve to get rid of the noise. They quote me the price: 2’800Eur. BMW takes about 2’000, and I pay about 800.

I agreed. They replaced turbos.

When getting back my car, rattle noise had disappeared. One good point.

But when leaving garage, I immediately noticed that they is a huge lack of responsitivity.
Car is very lazy, lack of torque, lack of power. It reminded me my previous E46 330i (231hp).

I also notice a increased consumption, maybe due to the fact I have to press longer the gas pedal.

I must admit I’m starting to get used now to this level of power, and I’m wondering if the feeling of lack of power is true ! But, finally I’m quite sure it is. Car is lazy, even if it is powerful when going on high RPM.

I came with some docs to the garage (copy of SIB, comments of this forum).
First of all, I had to translate them, as they only speak/read French. Then they claim they never saw those SIB, and thought they are only for North America.

Garage said they replace twice turbo+actuator, but without having updated again the firmware. So that we are surprised with this change of car comportment. I’m personally doubting that they did not update something…

They admit that they have only a limited access to program the car, and if it’s needed to have more option, they have to get in touch with their maintenance headquarter.

It means that I will have to be very didactive with them to obtain my car getting powerful as it was previously.

Now we agreed with the garage they will update my firmware again when coming for next car maintenance.

As I planned my next maintenance, could you please tell me what is the last firmware.

I read that valves conversion retrofit option is no longer available, or did I read badly ?

Is there specification for European market I have to tell them ? Meyergru might help me...

Thanks in advance for reading and support.

BTW : I’d like to tune my car, but it’s quite illegal here.

[meyergru]

Essentially, it does not matter if they reprogrammed the car once more when they replaced the turbos and actuators, since the November 2009 version should already be fine wrt turbo lag. You also have no choice of firmware, since they always use the newest, now probably 2.40.2

The wastegate conversion fix IS still available to any car that is elegible (and yours is) and that did not have it applied before. Also, it is not a US-only thing.

I doubt that the fix has been done to your car yet.

However, the way you describe a decay of power after the turbo replacement ('It reminded me my previous E46 330i (231hp)') seems to be attributed to hardware problems, not software ones. Matter-of-fact the turbo lag problem does not inhibit power, only the response characteristic is altered.

The whole turbo system is very complicated and nothing that should be left to a shop that sees N54s only once in a while. There are many things that can go wrong with a turbo exchange, for example leaks in the charge air tubing or defective lines to the vacuum pump which controls the actuators and in effect, the wastegates. All of those have been touched during the replacement, and my list is far from comprehensive (think blow-off valves, e.g.).

To me, this all sounds like your turbos are not working correctly, if at all. You could verify that very easily on a dyno, BTW. The shop could see boost target errors in the diagnostic system, too.

[Quisp]

Meyer,
How have you been? I recently got a 2008 335i and had the HDP and 4 injectors replaced alone with software. BMW coverd it but when I got it back I had it dynoed and it does a very odd chugging or surging at full throttle as if i am pushing down then letting up on the gas pedal. The turboe do not kick in right away and then when they do it isonly breiefly then off, then it repeats.
The dyno graph is below an you can see the little spikes. Interestingly, it does it the same each run. By that I mean it has the same spikes at the same ponts.
any thoughts?

[meyergru]

Hi Quisp,


I'm fine. Currently shopping for a new car, e.g. the X3. Alas, they are too expensive so that I may wait for the F30 coupe for another two years...

Your diagram looks like a resonance, may too high boost and the blow-off valves opening? Maybe the shop can see error codes?

I am really no expert on that, you know...

[zirophil]

Thanks Meyer, for very detailled answer.

I must admit that you are scaring saying it might be HW pb !

Nevertheless, i'm still wondering if it is only a lag or just if blow pressure is less. I'm maybe exagerating when saying it's like my 330i 231cv. I am saying by telling this, that it feels the same smooth (you are waiting while the car goes in high RPM), but power is there (i can see it by looking to the tacho )

Concerning error code, Garage said there is not.
it just upset me all this lost money... At least, if everything was working fine now, but no

just 3 last questions :

Could you please confirm me they still have to select the retrofit option while updating my FW ?

And as i have understand on your wiki, it must be done only once (the retrofit option), then it's ok for future updates, right ?

In Europe, is it normal i had to pay something, or BMW should have support all fees ?

With your response i'll schedule my appointment and will keep you in touch when that'll be done.

thank you very much again

rgds

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by zirophil

just 3 last questions :

Could you please confirm me they still have to select the retrofit option while updating my FW ?

And as i have understand on your wiki, it must be done only once (the retrofit option), then it's ok for future updates, right ?

In Europe, is it normal i had to pay something, or BMW should have support all fees ?

With your response i'll schedule my appointment and will keep you in touch when that'll be done.
rgds

1. So I have heard, yes. All that info is on the web page I linked above.

2. Yes, as far as I know. With my car, however, it cannot be selected any more since it has been done once.

3. Normally, software updates are done if neccessary for free, not if you decide to get some new functionality. I think the wastegate conversion fix is a borderline case.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by zirophil

BMW

I am French, leaving in France, near German border. This permits opportunity to find beautiful German cars ☺

So that, I bought in Germany an used 335i (model 2007/03) on nov-2009, with 28000kms.
It has already this rattle trouble when I bought it....

I just had my 135i (US specs but I live in Germany) software updated last week. What I noticed is now my car idles smoother AND quieter... but the throttle lag or delay is there now. Before I had very good throttle response and acceleration. Now, the car feels slower to respond to gas pedal inputs. Fuel mileage is about the same as before ~12L/100kph. Top speed is the same on my car 250 kph before and after the SW update.

One of the new things on my car is that my parking lights flash when I unlock the car. Also when I turn off the DSC I have a new icon (see photo I attached).



It feels to me, that the new software BMW has upgraded us to - keeps the wastegates open at idle - when before they were closed(I think). This gets rid of that WG rattle... but also introduces more lag when we step onto the gas pedal.

Originally Posted by zirophil

BTW : I’d like to tune my car, but it’s quite illegal here.

Well.. it is NOT illegal in Germany. And I have been talking to a tuner I know well. He's shop is in the Black Forrest area (close to France!). 380 PS and over 500Nm of Tq and a top speed of 290-ish kph. N54 Tune - here I come! The tuner's name is Marcel and he also drives an N54 335i. So he is also an enthusiast like us.

http://www.ms-chiptuning.de/

I hate the way my car feels/drives now after the SW update.

Dackel

[zirophil]

Maybe you're car is also eligible to the retrofit option. It might help...

Leaving in Germany, i would not hesitate to chiptune (not illegal + autobahn without speed limit on some portions). But in France, if you got an accident, assuror can just drop you for this reason. Furthermore, autorities are crazy with speed limits. It's a governemental obsession here :-/ (people drives very badly, but they drive slowly, and that's matters only for our governors ...)

[Dackelone]

zirophil - if I were you... I would "fix" your car by getting a flash tune. All of the top tuners in Germany know what they are doing. And a good tune will make your car (and mine!) feel alive again. IF you do not want a 400 PS tune... there are also other tunes say 350 PS that will make your car feel great to drive at slower speeds you have in France. For me... I really am looking to explore life OVER 250 kph.

As for insurance... well... the Germans also have those laws. IF you get into an accident at a speed over 130 kph on the autobahn... you are are your own. A lot of people do not realize that. That is why the micro (slow cars) only drive at 130 kph max - they are either trying to conserve fuel and/or affraid to drive faster bc of no insurance. AND it is usually these (small under 1.0 liter engine cars)cars that pose a high risk on my Autobahns. Because when then pull out to pass another sub 1.0L car... they do not care about a car coming up behind them at 250+ kph. Because they know the car coming up from behind MUST slow down and yeild to them. Such is Life on the Autobahns.

Well... at least you can come to visit our nice Autobahns.


Dackel

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by zirophil

Maybe you're car is also eligible to the retrofit option. It might help...

Nope, he's out of luck. Almost 100% sure:

The 135i came out after the problem was discovered (05/08). I know of no car that even has the ECU MSD80, they all have MSD81 for which that option was never offered (and BMW claims they never changed wastegate control on those because all have new actuator rods). On my info page any 135i but early beta cars should be "Case 1".

[zirophil]

@ Meyergru : yes you're right . Sorry for disinformation.

Your wiki is very clear (last Q&A said : no for retrofit option availability for 135i).

@ Dackelone : Tune is tempting. I keep your address in case

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by zirophil

@ Dackelone : Tune is tempting. I keep your address in case

Ok. I will be sure to post a review of my tune - next month.


Dackel

[Wrighton]

I posted this in the HPFP thread, but this is probably where it should have gone:

My E90 335i MT, March 2007 build, had the HPFP replaced with the #170 part and the the updated software.

Unfortunately I do notice turbo lag now. Exhaust note is lower at idle. The lag is not horrible, but it is not something I am imagining either. I do not believe the lag is nearly as bad as was reported early on. But it is almost like the wastegates are open at idle.

I am not sure if I should live with the change, or should I take it back to the dealer and request the 'wastegate control' option. Will they even know what this is anymore?

Annoying that this is still an issue after all these years!

I am also curious how the later model N54's and current N55's operate. Do they have much turbo lag? Are wastegates open or closed at idle? I did have a N55 as a loaner, but it was Xi and tiptronic, so it was difficult to compare.

[Dackelone]

^^Well... The lag was not THAT bad, but it was noticeable - and it tends to drive you mad/crazy that my engine has been de-tuned by BMW. Sure the engine idles quieter now. But I hate the lost performance now.

My solution was to have my car tuned/flashed by a German company near here:

http://www.ms-chiptuning.de/kontakt.html

Marcel is located near Stuttgart and really knows the N54 - N55 motors well. He offers tuned for both and also the N52 motor.

After the flash... my engine made all the old (loud) noises (they never bothered me!), but the throttle response was back and now the engine just rockets away when you give ever so slightly crack the gas pedal. It was realy worth while mod.

The new tuned software provides 365-380 PS and 510-530 Nm about 0.95 max. bar.

I am VERY HAPPY with the performance of my car now.

[illudezion]

Lag did seem that bad

[zirophil]

Hi,

back from a maintenance service + update of my firmware (2.42 as i can remember). Garage said they have look for the wastegate retrofit option, but did see it thus no opportunity to select it :-(

With new firmware, sound is a bit louder, and car feel more powerfull. Nevertheless it remains very linear. I'm close to my initial power setup now i think. But i will always have a doubt if my car was less linear before (the famous turbos "kick ass").

I'm wondering if it is usefull for my to contact the french national after market service to explain my disappointment, and also wondering if they could have more precision with this lag fix option...

If you have any thoughts, please tell me...

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I just had my 135i (US specs but I live in Germany) software updated last week. What I noticed is now my car idles smoother AND quieter... but the throttle lag or delay is there now. Before I had very good throttle response and acceleration. Now, the car feels slower to respond to gas pedal inputs. Fuel mileage is about the same as before ~12L/100kph. Top speed is the same on my car 250 kph before and after the SW update.

One of the new things on my car is that my parking lights flash when I unlock the car. Also when I turn off the DSC I have a new icon (see photo I attached).



It feels to me, that the new software BMW has upgraded us to - keeps the wastegates open at idle - when before they were closed(I think). This gets rid of that WG rattle... but also introduces more lag when we step onto the gas pedal.






I hate the way my car feels/drives now after the SW update.

Dackel

I had the software update recently and now have that same DSC symbol that you show.

I agree as to your observations:

Stock - the car is less responsive and has more turbo lag than before the software update.

Tuned - The car feels the same on a tune as it did before the update.

But there is an issue with ignition timing recovery when tuned.

New software update from BMW is just stupid and reintroducing the same turbo lag issue this thread originally was founded on many years ago.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I had the software update recently and now have that same DSC symbol that you show.

I agree as to your observations:

Stock - the car is less responsive and has more turbo lag than before the software update.

Tuned - The car feels the same on a tune as it did before the update.

But there is an issue with ignition timing recovery when tuned.

New software update from BMW is just stupid and reintroducing the same turbo lag issue this thread originally was founded on many years ago.

Hi Ilma,

What do you mean by: an issue with ignition timing recovery ?

How do you know this and what is it? Do you mean after the engine starts to ping/pre detonate? ???


Dackel