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      06-05-2019, 04:06 PM   #1
Tejsingh
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E92 - 325i - Intermediate Lever Issue

Hi all,

My first post here, apologies if this has already been covered in another post but I have tried searching and not quite found the same as my issue. Apologies in advance for the long post!

I have a 2006 325i E92. Few weeks back I noticed a big idle issue when starting the car, really rough and certainly didn't sound well. Took it to a garage on the short trip home and they checked the codes - P0304 - cylinder 4 misfire. The garage told me it could be anything and could be a costly repair. So I thought I'd try a few things myself.

I'm not a mechanic or even too familiar with engines but I did some searching in the forums and tried the following in the order below:

1. Replaced all spark plugs
2. Replaced cylinder 4 coil
3. Replaced fuel injector on 4th cylinder

After each of the steps nothing seemed to improve and code was the same (I checked with my cheap reader). I then had a family mechanic run a quick compression test on the 4th cylinder and it was sitting on dead zero. Other cylinders looked fine besides the dead 4th cylinder. He said he'd have to take the valve cover off and it could be any number of things - could be £800-£900 or well over £1000 to repair in labour and parts. Especially if the head needs to be taken off.

Again - I thought I'd try a few things myself and see how far I get. Please keep in mind I'm not a mechanic or overly familiar with BMW engines so I've spent quite a few hours reading forums and guides and watching youtube videos!

The car hasn't been driven since the issue, luckily I have another car I can drive for work etc. So I started about a week ago in taking the valve cover off. I managed to do this with great difficulty but got there in the end. Lots of oil everywhere, I'll be giving the whole engine a good clean once I get it sorted!

Inspecting the engine the only issue I could see was that on the 4th cylinder the intermediate (rocker) lever was loose sitting at the bottom of the head and the spring arm was resting on ones of the gaps on the cam. My drive home and the odd starting of the engine to test after plugs/coil/injector has caused a fair amount of grinding! I'm hoping this hasn't caused any issues to the cam.

I wanted to inspect the area around the intermediate rocker further, the other rocker and the spring etc. So I went ahead and removed the spring, slowly, and inspected everything as closely as I could. Nothing seemed to be a amiss, cracked or chipped or damaged in any way. I checked the "roller cam follower" that the intermediate lever sits on as well as pulling out the intake "HVA" as far as it could and it all seemed fine. The spring above the intake valve looks fine but I'm wondering if there's anything wrong with the valve - could it be slightly bent or stuck?

So I'm not sure what would have caused the rocker to come loose and the spring become unattached. My fear now, in putting the rocker back in and getting the spring back in place (I haven't got the special tool so it's going to be a pain!) is that I get it all back together and it comes loose again when I try to start the car.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the spring may have come out and the rocker come loose?

Will try to upload some photos of my adventures and thank you in advance!
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      06-06-2019, 06:11 AM   #2
Tejsingh
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I'm going to try and get the springs back in place later today with the lever back where it should be. Instead of putting the cover back on and putting everything back together and starting the car to test, I'm thinking whether it's safe to do the following, with the valve cover off.

Somehow manually cranking the engine so the cam turns and I can see the lever in motion and check the valves are moving as expected. If I see the lever and spring pop out again then I can only assume there's something wrong with the valve not opening and closing as it should be, causing it to stick and the intermediate lever/rocker getting pushed out..

Just want to check it's safe for me to do this and I won't cause any issues in manually cranking the engine.. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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      06-06-2019, 10:46 AM   #3
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I think I would repalce the suspect spring unit. You may find this thread useful:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329840

It actually relates to fitting of Modified Intake Lift Valvetronic Supports that several guys in the USA have done. It's a long thread, but you made find some tips to help...

And as a lot of swarf has ground off your cam and into the engine, I'd do a series of very short intervals for your next few oil and filter changes.
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      06-07-2019, 04:48 AM   #4
Tejsingh
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Thanks Phil.

I was tempted to replace the spring but it doesn't look like there's anything wrong with it at all.

Managed to get the spring back in without the "Special tool", used rope and this video for help:


I didn't manage to figure out how to turn the cam without removing the chain. I removed the sparkplugs and could only shift the cam a tiny bit clockwise and anti clockwise but then got worried I might damage something so left it.

I'm going to take my chances and clean it up, put in valve cover new seals and put it back together. Hopefully get that done today if the rain stops and will try firing it up. Fingers crossed!

Thanks for the tip on the oil and filter changes, will def do shorter intervals.
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      06-07-2019, 07:24 AM   #5
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Just a quick suggestion before you go starting the car normally.

If you whip off the inlet manifold, then turn the car by using a socket on the crank, you will be able to confirm whether or not the inlet valves are opening/closing as they need to be after you put the immediate lever back on. Being that the cam is so scored, perhaps try finding a 2nd hand one on ebay? Shame its not an N53 as i have a couple spare from my rebuild. Also, is there no obvious reason why the Valvetronic has failed as it has? Could be some kind of manufacturing defect if no over rev etc has occured.

I had zero compression on cyl6 with my N53 and removing inlet helped me diagnose a snapped valve spring: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1573305

Last edited by Sir_Dave; 06-07-2019 at 07:29 AM..
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      06-07-2019, 07:33 AM   #6
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The N53 doesn't have Valvetronic like the OP's engine...
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      06-07-2019, 10:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil325i View Post
The N53 doesn't have Valvetronic like the OP's engine...
Im aware of that.

Surely he can still remove the inlet manifold and rotate the crank to assess whether the valves are moving up & down after he does his "fix" however?

Unless valvetronic doesnt work without the ignition on
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      06-07-2019, 11:23 AM   #8
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OP you might find this vid informative...

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      06-07-2019, 11:58 AM   #9
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Thanks Phil and Dave, appreciate the responses.

My main issue right now is trying to manually rotate the crank as it doesn't seem to be moving much. Hoping I'm trying the right thing as I'm not 100% sure but hope I am on the right track!

Photo attached, I have loosened and lifted up the intake manifold a little, so there's a clear gap between it and the head. Removed the spark plugs too. Now I've tried turning clockwise and anti clockwise the bolt circled on the right, on the intake cam.

So it moves a little but not much. Do I need to be rotating the bolt circled on the left, on the exhaust side at the same time?

Sorry for a question that might seem obvious but I really don't want to cause any issues to the chain.

Thanks!
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      06-07-2019, 12:18 PM   #10
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Ignore my last question! I pushed through and managed to rotate the crank a few times. Everything seems to be moving fine. Spring hasn't popped out neither has the lever.

One thing I did notice is that whilst all of the other gears on the camshaft are now well lubricated with oil from manually turning the cam, the gear which controls the level that popped out is not as well lubricated. Will keep looking into it.

I'm wondering whether it popped out as there was no longer and oil lubricating it?
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      06-07-2019, 12:57 PM   #11
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Upon further inspection I think I've found the cause of the issue.

I continued to manually turn the crank and kept my eyes on the lever which initally popped out. The movement was fairly smooth until I noticed it being a little juddery. Turned the crank again watching both levers on that cyclinder and one was perfectly smooth whilst the one in question was juddery.

Felt around and the spring was tight in place, as was the lever. But the "roller cam follower" that the lever sits on was a little loose. I checked some of the others and they were tight in place. Continued to manually turn the crank checking the follower at each turn and it just doesn't seem to be tight against the lever at any point.

This tells me that the valve isn't moving on the intake side. I took a photo to try and show this, the one in question I could see the spring just doesn't move either. It's slightly lower than the spring on the right, both being on the same cylinder. I tried checking the lifter and it seemed it have some movement in it, a little spongy whereas all others seem to have no movement in them.

My thoughts now are that there's something wrong with that valve. Seems like it's probably stuck.

I'm going to try and spend some time on Sunday getting the valve out, will see if I can do it without taking the head off.
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      06-08-2019, 01:54 AM   #12
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So it's pretty clear that I can't replace the valve without taking the head off. Something I'm willing to try but was really hoping to avoid!

I'm going to try taking the cam off and then inspecting the spring closer. I'm hoping it's the spring or valve stem seal but I won't know until I get a closer look.
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      06-10-2019, 06:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejsingh View Post
So it's pretty clear that I can't replace the valve without taking the head off. Something I'm willing to try but was really hoping to avoid!

I'm going to try taking the cam off and then inspecting the spring closer. I'm hoping it's the spring or valve stem seal but I won't know until I get a closer look.
Id say if you're lucky, you have a snapped valve spring like me, perhaps at the bottom of the coil (instead of the top like mine) making it less obvious. If you rotate the crank (remove the fan and do it off the lower crank nut btw, not the cams) and then pear in through the inlet you'll be able to see if its still moving up & down ok. If its snapped, itll probably not receed into the head the last 1-2mm which is what gives you the zero compression.

In terms of tools, you can replace the valve spring without taking the head off - its fairly easy with the right bits.

You'll need an N52 Timing Tool & Laser 5258 Valve Spring Compressor - you can buy mine if you like, im done with them now
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      06-10-2019, 08:35 AM   #14
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Yeah I'm hoping it's just the spring!

Thanks for the tips, once the rain stops I'll remove the fan and have a better look rotating the crank like you suggested.

I've been looking at the tools and was hoping to borrow then from a friend. But that's unlikely to happen for a while so yes, I'd be interested in buying them from you - will send you a message. Thanks again!
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      06-17-2019, 02:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejsingh View Post
Yeah I'm hoping it's just the spring!

Thanks for the tips, once the rain stops I'll remove the fan and have a better look rotating the crank like you suggested.

I've been looking at the tools and was hoping to borrow then from a friend. But that's unlikely to happen for a while so yes, I'd be interested in buying them from you - will send you a message. Thanks again!
So I've managed to get the tools (thanks Sir_Dave) and started doing some work this weekend.

I thought about taking the intake cam off but upon closer inspection I realised I could use the compression spring tool with the cams still on. so I found some suitable holes on the head to fix the compression spring tool on and got to work.

I managed to feed rope into the cylinder and then turned the cam until the piston was snug against the valve. I then removed the spring and also the spring seal. Spring and Seal look ok from initial inspection, but the valve stem seems to be stuck. I turned the cam a little to relieve some pressure on the valve but it still seems stuck. I haven't pushed it too hard on the stem, in fear of it dropping completely into the cylinder but it seems pretty stuck in there.

I know there's a "guide" inside the head too, around the stem, my initial thoughts are that the valve stem is probably bent.

I will take the intake manifold off this week to see if I can get a look at the valve stem better. But right now it looks like the valve stem is stuck. Is there any harm in me giving the top of the valve stem a gentle tap with a rubber hammer/mallet?

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      06-17-2019, 02:54 AM   #16
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What have you got to loose? I would also suggest you post your query on this forum page:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=35

It's frequented by a lot of guys in the US with NA engines. I know the N53 will be foreign to them because it was never sold 'over there', but I still think you'll get some useful feedback...
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      06-17-2019, 03:16 AM   #17
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Thanks Phil, I'll post into that forum page today.

True - haven't got much to lose tbh. I'll probably get round to it tomorrow, will try giving it a little tap and then see if I can loosen it.
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      06-19-2019, 04:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejsingh View Post
Thanks Phil, I'll post into that forum page today.

True - haven't got much to lose tbh. I'll probably get round to it tomorrow, will try giving it a little tap and then see if I can loosen it.
Another update on this. Also I posted on the US section but unfortunately no response.

So I managed to find some time today to give the hammer theory a try. I lowered the piston slightly by turning the cam, rope was still fed into the cylinder. I tried pushing the valve stem down into the head again, no luck. tried tapping with a hammer, no luck. So eventually gave it a stronger hit with the hammer and it knocked the valve stem down.

As I had the piston moved up and rope in the cylinder I didn't lose the valve into the head. Was pretty close though! I turned the cam again and moved the valve stem back up, not 100% but close. I could feel the stem moving up and down with my fingers really easily. It twisted around 360 degrees and moved up and down freely.

My initial concern was that the stem was bent but didn't feel like it was bent in the guide or in the head. My next concern was that it was bent on the other side, inside the cylinder. So I moved the piston all the way up to see if the stem was level with the other stems.

Not a complete science but it looks pretty much dead on level. Photos are attached. Now if the valve was not closing properly then I would expect the stem to be bent inside the cylinder, explaining how the initial issue could have occurred. But it doesn't look uneven at all. So my next steps are to put the valve seal, spring back on with the keepers and try with the lever and spring back in place, turn the cam and see if the valve is moving correctly or not.

Has anyone heard about Valves getting stuck but not actually being bent or damaged in anyway? Could something have wedged itself in with the valve to cause it to get stuck?

Fingers crossed I get to try putting it all back together and trying it out again this week.

Thanks!

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