[jadeddjay]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Is there a potential occurance with the V2 in a 6MT which slows the shift causing slower times? That is being looked into.

sorry i must not have been paying attention but... what does this mean?

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by jadeddjay

sorry i must not have been paying attention but... what does this mean?

Nothing more at this point other than I have seen information in some logs which suggests a significant difference in time during a shift between a 6AT and a 6MT. The time between when acceleration is lost and started again is dramatically different. The reason is not fully known but it is being looked into.

I may have some logs later today, but most likely tomorrow, which illustrates this. It will be presented in a new thread.

But back to this topic, which may be related, a car which dynos 368 WHP on 91 octane may make 375 - 380 WHP on 100+ octane with no other changes. I would assume similar numbers would have been put up with the JBS2HR on 100+ octane based on other dynos I have seen; maybe a little more even. But not enough to account for the dramatic difference. So what is the other factor other than power, taking the launch out of it which did play a part. That would be the shifts, or rather, what happens during them with the various tunes.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Nothing more at this point other than I have seen information in some logs which suggests a significant difference in time during a shift between a 6AT and a 6MT. The time between when acceleration is lost and started again is dramatically different. The reason is not fully known but it is being looked into.

I may have some logs later today, but most likely tomorrow, which illustrates this. It will be presented in a new thread.

But back to this topic, which may be related, a car which dynos 368 WHP on 91 octane may make 375 - 380 WHP on 100+ octane with no other changes. I would assume similar numbers would have been put up with the JBS2HR on 100+ octane based on other dynos I have seen; maybe a little more even. But not enough to account for the dramatic difference. So what is the other factor other than power, taking the launch out of it which did play a part. That would be the shifts, or rather, what happens during them with the various tunes.

So yet another issue with the Procede... No big surprise there...

About the white loom, i think its complete B.S. Lets see someone get on a dyno and run it that way and see what happens, until then its another "Procede on top of a procede" quote made by Shiv... On top of that the 368whp number was made by custom tuning and picking up 30whp, you think Shivo is gonna come out to GA and custom tune your car? Or every other state and city in the world and custom tune their cars? My car made 370whp on the procede with all the mods you can have and on 100oct, so thats what it is and thats all its gonna be...

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by DrewKo

I feel like I am speaking to brick walls. I guess you guys are going to conclude as you have and I am not trying, nor do I care to, try to change your opinions. I know, however, that your testing is not apples to apples on the money for the reasons I already stated. I see from the responses, however, that you perhaps have a more limited understanding of how the car reacts with Procede and fuels. I just ask that you take your car, run it with your V.2 tune at 91 octane without adjusting the torque settings and see what happens. I just want to know what kind of run you would experience. Tx. You could then put in some race gas and see if the times/hp improve. Then, you could increase your torque setting conservatively to see if your time/hp improve. That is a much, much better experiment.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but there is no way you will get a 368 HP tune from a JB on 91 octane. So for you folks claiming that the JB2HR is a better tune, you have to assume the person is always using race gas. Let's ask the question of which is the better tune for 91 octane on Mr. 5's car and the answer is probably apparent, but could be tested as well. I don't really care either way, bec. both are very good products.

Why didn't you do all that? Instead you bought drag radials and ran race gas with your PROcede on your fastest run for the same reason Mr 5 did, because you are trying to see what is the fasted/quickest 1/4 mile you can run. I suggest you do the experiments you propossed since you are the only one clueless enough to somehow think running race gas made his times and traps slower

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by down4it

About the white loom, i think its complete B.S. Lets see someone get on a dyno and run it that way and see what happens, until then its another "Procede on top of a procede" quote made by Shiv... On top of that the 368whp number was made by custom tuning and picking up 30whp, you think Shivo is gonna come out to GA and custom tune your car? Or every other state and city in the world and custom tune their cars? My car made 370whp with all the mods you can have and on 100oct, so thats what it is and thats all its gonna be...

What does the white loom do? Isn't it the primary difference between the two in terms of functionality? I am serious, if we are to discuss this we need to have a full understanding so, what signal does the white loom intercept and why?

You seem to want to argue and I can understand your animosity. But it comes down to basics; boost, fuel and spark. If two are the same and last last one different, shouldn't it make sense there would be a difference in power.

[Mr. 5]

Great stuff in here guys!
Thanks for keeping it civil.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by scalbert

What does the white loom do? Isn't it the primary difference between the two in terms of functionality? I am serious, if we are to discuss this we need to have a full understanding so, what signal does the white loom intercept and why?

You seem to want to argue and I can understand your animosity. But it comes down to basics; boost, fuel and spark. If two are the same and last last one different, shouldn't it make sense there would be a difference in power.

Forget the white loom, I know what it controls and how of works but I was under the impression that if you pulled it out it would have a negative effect on other functions and the car won't even run correctly... Have you tried pulling the white loom?

The more important thing here is the question of why Vishnu couldn't make a simple race gas map on 100oct in the last year? You know it would only take an hour or less to make one... Or maybe he did make one and ran that 12.0 and thats the full potential of the procede... Yet to be seen I guess...

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by down4it

Forget the white loom, I know what it controls and how of works but I was under the impression that if you pulled it out it would have a negative effect on other functions and the car won't even run correctly... Have you tried pulling the white loom?

The more important thing here is the question of why Vishnu couldn't make a simple race gas map on 100oct in the last year? You know it would only take an hour or less to make one... Or maybe he did make one and ran that 12.0 and thats the full potential of the procede... Yet to be seen I guess...

On the first part, I was not suggesting you disconnect it, I was implying that you never hook it up (or rather, return this piece only to stock). To be clear, this intercepts the crank position sensor signal. By altering the phasing of it you are essentially altering what the DME knows of the rotary position and in the end, altering ignition timing. If you never use it, you will get the full advance just like the JBS2xx. That is the difference in power when the octane is there to support running more timing. This is also why you can run nearly the same boost on the PROcede as does the R run but without the perceived need for 100 octane as suggested by Terry. My point is that if ultimate power is desired with the PROcede, this is an option, but not suggested.

Now, is the proactive retard of the PROcede needed over the reactive nature the JBS2HR uses; I cannot answer that. One is trying to be safer but it may be too conservative, I just do not know at this time. Based on the success of the JBS2HR it would seem that being solely reactive is fine but there is not enough time on this to tell ultimately.

On the second part, I do not know but believe one will be available soon. I am not privy to that information. It may not be a desire to make one as that may not be the target for the market. For instance, when upgrading to K04's on the B5 S4, APR offered a 100 octane racing map whereas AWE did not; just perception on what the majority of the customer base wants. It may be right for some but not for others.

[down4it]

Originally Posted by scalbert

On the first part, I was not suggesting you disconnect it, I was implying that you never hook it up (or rather, return this piece only to stock). To be clear, this intercepts the crank position sensor signal. By altering the phasing of it you are essentially altering what the DME knows of the rotary position and in the end, altering ignition timing. If you never use it, you will get the full advance just like the JBS2xx. That is the difference in power when the octane is there to support running more timing. This is also why you can run nearly the same boost on the PROcede as does the R run but without the perceived need for 100 octane as suggested by Terry. My point is that if ultimate power is desired with the PROcede, this is an option, but not suggested.

Now, is the proactive retard of the PROcede needed over the reactive nature the JBS2HR uses; I cannot answer that. One is trying to be safer but it may be too conservative, I just do not know at this time. Based on the success of the JBS2HR it would seem that being solely reactive is fine but there is not enough time on this to tell ultimately.

On the second part, I do not know but believe one will be available soon. I am not privy to that information. It may not be a desire to make one as that may not be the target for the market. For instance, when upgrading to K04's on the B5 S4, APR offered a 100 octane racing map whereas AWE did not; just perception on what the majority of the customer base wants. It may be right for some but not for others.

Problem is im 90% sure that he has race gas maps and probably just uses them for himself to run those 12.0's but its just sad for Vishnu as a company that he is not a better tuner than he is a salesman... Just seems like to him its all about the dollar... Dont get me wrong it would be the same for me but after making over $1,000,000 off of a chip i would get a little less greedy and start paying more attention to the customer, especially the ones that are willing to take the tune to the next level...IMO.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by down4it

Problem is im 90% sure that he has race gas maps and probably just uses them for himself to run those 12.0's but its just sad for Vishnu as a company that he is not a better tuner than he is a salesman... Just seems like to him its all about the dollar... Dont get me wrong it would be the same for me but after making over $1,000,000 off of a chip i would get a little less greedy and start paying more attention to the customer, especially the ones that are willing to take the tune to the next level...IMO.

While I do not nessesarily agree, I can appreciate your opinion. Business decisions are made for a variety of reasons. Some of those may be made to cater to the masses rather than a smaller segment. You have to look at which customers to service first which can often be a difficult decision. I have been disappointed in their CS as well at times and have been vocal on this forum about it. But at the moment, it appears there is quite a bit of interest in satifying their customers with the plans which have been laid out. However, it appears those plans are more about the "simple" customer; not about the smaller sample which wants ultimate power.