[nukezero]

Originally Posted by chromisdesigns

They should NOT still be installing those old pumps -- effective last week, BMWNA instructed dealers to send them all back, and only install the new part number.

do you have a copy of the memo?

[chromisdesigns]

Originally Posted by nukezero

do you have a copy of the memo?

No, I was told this by the service advisor at my dealer yesterday, he said they got it last Friday and it went to all dealers nationwide.

[chromisdesigns]

Update -- well, of course the dealer couldn't see the long cranking...left it overnight, and it started right up for them this morning...

They did run repeated pressure tests on the HPFP, which passed each time. So they say nothing they can do at this point, as it hasn't coded and won't fail the pressure test. "Just monitor it and bring it back when it starts doing the long cranks more frequently, you get a check engine light, or if it goes into limp mode"...

At least I got a squeaking hood latch fixed and some new wiper blades! And got to drive a 135 coupe as a loaner -- what a sweet little car!

[Murph335]

Just bought my car last week, and just found this post!! THIS HAPPENED TO ME!

2007 335 sedan 46k miles, longer cranks, then next morning no start. Dealer couldnt figure out why, but they found LOW FUEL PRESSURE CODES!

Now car starts perfect, one touch!

[VTGT]

Anyone know if there will be another FP recall to replace the 881 for 943 the FP?

I think there should be......I am debating buying a 335xi, but I would like to see this resolved correctly first with a recall.

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by VTGT

Anyone know if there will be another FP recall to replace the 881 for 943 the FP?

I think there should be......I am debating buying a 335xi, but I would like to see this resolved correctly first with a recall.

If you're debating...don't buy it. Get the M3 or the S4 instead. Then for the S4 I wouldn't get it as it just comes out. Who knows if it doesn't start showing up issues?

I actually decided to keep my 335i for long long time. So much potential down the road (turbo upgrade, GIAC tuning). The low end torque/instant power is crazy. Coming from the WRX, the top end of the 335i is no joke.
HPFP failure doesn't bother me. Failed at 20ishk; few hours later I'm back on the road. Nothing was out of pocket.

You might also want to read number 9 in first post.

[nardoM4]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

There won't be any recall to replace the 881 HPFP with the 943 HPFP. BMW will just replace the 881 HPFPs as they fail.

Unfortunately there is no way (yet) of knowing if the 943 HPFP is any more reliable than the three prior model HPFPs that have all failed. You might know in a month or two or it might be a year?

just got mine replaced today with the 943 model. will monitor how long this one last

[hammonss]

here's a post from a dealer saying they've been asked to return all their 881 stock to be replaced with the 943. This may be a good sign...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11346798

[nukezero]

My guess is pump #943 is the SOLUTION! It sounds like the solution and I believe pump #943 since it is a different supplier, continental instead of Bosch, they probably been working on it for atleast a year.

I work in the manufacturing business too and I know a thing or two about working with suppliers. You see, anytime when you change suppliers or have two different suppliers, the product goes through stages:

1. design
2. development
3. implementation (fitting into the car correctly)
4. testing and failure analysis
5. qualification (by BMW as the customer) - BMW will qualify the part as worthy or not. this can be months to years.


you see, going through all these steps takes atleast a year... that is why it probably took BMW a very long time, nearly 3 model years , before they can qualify and release this part.

The previous parts like 881, were just quick-fixes in the manufacturing process and as you can see, didn't even go through long-term development testing.


Yes BMW knows it is costing them a lot of money. But if the pumps continuously fail one after another, and they are warrantying the part up to 120k or 10 years, they will lose even more money just paying the dealers and suppliers for replacement and labor for tear down. Since the warranty is transferable through all owners, it is in their best interest to choose a second supplier and develop a solution again.

[morphia]

My EU 335 in Taiwan got HPFP replaced a couple months ago. (should be 881)
Recently I have long crank issue many times.
2FBF code can be read from Procede every time right after long crank.
I'll go to the dealer soon for analysis.

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by nukezero

Yes BMW knows it is costing them a lot of money. But if the pumps continuously fail one after another, and they are warrantying the part up to 120k or 10 years, they will lose even more money just paying the dealers and suppliers for replacement and labor for tear down. Since the warranty is transferable through all owners, it is in their best interest to choose a second supplier and develop a solution again.

If you think BMW will lose the monye you're too naive. The manufactures who made these pumps will pay BMW and Mercedes for all of the failed pumps. Read #9 in the 1st post.

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by nukezero

...
I work in the manufacturing business too and I know a thing or two about working with suppliers. You see, anytime when you change suppliers or have two different suppliers, the product goes through stages:

1. design
2. development
3. implementation (fitting into the car correctly)
4. testing and failure analysis
5. qualification (by BMW as the customer) - BMW will qualify the part as worthy or not. this can be months to years.


you see, going through all these steps takes atleast a year... that is why it probably took BMW a very long time, nearly 3 model years , before they can qualify and release this part.
...

This is good insight into manufacturing. I wonder if anyone on the forum would know if the failed HP pumps are re-manufactured and re-deployed, and if so, is the re-manufacturing as carefully controlled and as tractable as presumably the OEM is.

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The vendor supplier only pays if the pump is defective in manufacture. BMW pays if the pump is defective in design or failing as a result of some other problem in the fuel system/engine. I highly doubt that Siemens or Bosch is paying for the pump failures.





Some of the earlier pumps were remanufactuered by the OE supplier. Later pumps seem to be tossed in the trash as BMW tries to figure out what the real problem is.

Thanks, I just wondered how much recycling is done and how it was handled. I had my doubts the pump vendors would pay BMW back for anything except manufacturing problems. Up to now outsiders are not sure why the pumps fail - for all we know an in-spec pump may be inadvertently put in untenable situation by the engine OS, in which case it may have no choice but to fail.

[nukezero]

Originally Posted by quattr0

If you think BMW will lose the monye you're too naive. The manufactures who made these pumps will pay BMW and Mercedes for all of the failed pumps. Read #9 in the 1st post.

well that statement is either right or wrong.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The vendor supplier only pays if the pump is defective in manufacture. BMW pays if the pump is defective in design or failing as a result of some other problem in the fuel system/engine. I highly doubt that Siemens or Bosch is paying for the pump failures.

this is a true statement...



Here's another example. Toyota contracts out their gas pedal to CTS and Denso. Yup, you guessed it. Who designs and specs the development? Toyota does. CTS and Denso comes back with the product, as according to Toyota's spec. Toyota is responsible for verifying, evaluating, the part as it is.

The consumer does not SUE CTS or Denso, or other suppliers for gas pedal failures or brake acceleration, UNLESS the consumer can prove that the supplier deviated from Toyota's spec by using cheaper, inferior material, that was not with Toyota spec. The Consumer ONLY goes after Toyota with a class action lawsuit.

Third example, in the construction industry. The developer contracts out with builder to build a building. A similar case happened that which the builder used INFERIOR concrete and material to build that building. The result of which , when it collapsed in Taiwan, it killed people.

Who do you think they sued?


There are over 200 manufacturers and suppliers in a car from glass, to plastic, to leather seats, radio, buttons, molding, etc. BMW does not MANUFACTURE any of those. They don't have the time and the resouces. Every job is designed and SPEC'd by BMW. BMW's job is to make sure that the PRODUCT that which they will put in their car MEETS or EXCEEDS their standard.

IN THIS CASE, BMW OBVIOUSLY did NOT fully evaluate the HIGH pressure fuel pump and did not anticipate a flaw possibly in the design that which causes the pump to fail randomly. Therefore, when a persons HPFP fails on a freeway , crashes and dies, NTHSA and the consumer will BLAME BMW... not BOSCH or Continental. IF THE PRODUCT WAS within the Parameters of the design that was contracted by BMW and BOSCH, then BOSCH really does not hold liability....


BMW needs to PROVE that somehow, Bosch deviated from the original design/spec that they created that caused un-documented failures. This is how dealing with suppliers works...

Suppliers have contracts as well to save their own ass.. they don't want to lose money...


Hypothetical Scenario

BMW says, I need a piece of windshield glass 42" by 32" with 'x' material, and 'y' thickness, and 'z' tolerance ranges. When the windshield is installed, it is 1/2" too long or two wide. After the car is driven for over a month, stress caused by the frame pushing against the glass from vibration causes the windshield to crack. Consumers start to complain!! Who's problem is this? Is it the glass company's fault? NO! The glass company received the documentation that which BMW spec'd. 42" by 32" . If the supplier deviated from this norm...it is then the supplier's fault. If 'x' material was NOT used, but 'y' material was, then BMW has the right to blame the supplier. Likewise, if the improper thickness of the glass was used that the supplier deviated from, then BMW can take the supplier to court and ask for a settlement!!

BMW MUST qualify the supplier's part and verify its functionality, failure analysis, performance, tolerance, and operating range.

[quattr0]

I'm not going to argue with you guys as I get my info from the insider. Say what you want to say

[nekken04]

Had mine replaced yesterday at 27k miles. It gave out over the weekend, it had all the symptoms (long crank, rough idle, engine light). Brought it to the dealer first thing yesterday morning, got a loaner, they called back around 3:30pm and said car was ready for pick up. The invoice said I got the 943 pump. Hoping this will fix it. Thank you everyone for sharing their experience, it made mine less stressful and I knew exactly what to do.

[TriniJots]

Hey guys....took me quite some time to read this whole thread. I have a 09 335i coupe. Got it in April 2009. Had the HPFP changed about 3 weeks ago because i started to get a long crank at start up. Im used to hearing my engine roar like a lion, not sputter like it is struggling to start up. The new HPFP (i assume 881) was only good for about a week because i still experience the long crank. I just received a letter in the mail from BMW telling me to come in to change to the new HPFP which i assume is the 943. I will keep updating you guys when i go in if you would like.
This post was very helpful

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by TriniJots

Hey guys....took me quite some time to read this whole thread. I have a 09 335i coupe. Got it in April 2009. Had the HPFP changed about 3 weeks ago because i started to get a long crank at start up. Im used to hearing my engine roar like a lion, not sputter like it is struggling to start up. The new HPFP (i assume 881) was only good for about a week because i still experience the long crank. I just received a letter in the mail from BMW telling me to come in to change to the new HPFP which i assume is the 943. I will keep updating you guys when i go in if you would like.
This post was very helpful

Thanks for sharing. Sounded like your dealer did the right thing! I wouldn't mind keeping them

And make sure you see 943 in the invoice once they're done or I guess you could ask them before hand. But then if it's not 943 I doubt that they sent you a letter asking to bring her back after a few weeks.

Keep us posted.

[cliverman]

Found this out today...all the hpfps have 100K mile warranties.

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by cliverman

Found this out today...all the hpfps have 100K mile warranties.

You may want to read up on details published by skeptic:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...29#post6616729

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by quattr0

If you're debating...don't buy it. Get the M3 or the S4 instead. Then for the S4 I wouldn't get it as it just comes out. Who knows if it doesn't start showing up issues?

I actually decided to keep my 335i for long long time. So much potential down the road (turbo upgrade, GIAC tuning). The low end torque/instant power is crazy. Coming from the WRX, the top end of the 335i is no joke.
HPFP failure doesn't bother me. Failed at 20ishk; few hours later I'm back on the road. Nothing was out of pocket.

You might also want to read number 9 in first post.

Short memory. Wasn't that long ago Audi/VW had their chronic coil pack issue. It was essentially the exact same procedure BMW is going through. They would reman the old ones, then they got word to stop that (because it wasn't working), and then stock dried up, and ppl had cars off the road, including both my g/fs jetta wolfsburg and my buddies A4.

They're all the same. If you think running to another premium brand is going to save you, it won't. It's just roullette.

[TriniJots]

Took my car in today to get it replaced for the 943 hpfp, got a 535i as a loaner