[ayyy]

URGENT UPDATE: so with the bottoms of the front shocks twisted all the way up, resulting in almost no remaining threads (max drop), the car sits much better. HOWEVER, upon driving the car away from where it had been for 3 days, there was an awful metal-on-metal rubbing sound coming from the driver's side rear. It seemed to make the sound when the driver's side rear wheel reaches the same point when rolling. This to me would reveal something like the heat shield rubbing against something on the wheel catching at the same point when the wheel rotates, but no such obstruction could be found. The sound would almost "ratchet," creaking in a way that sounded like something rubbing with great force making the contact jitter/hop. However, after driving up to roughly 30 mph, the sound went away, but have not driven it since for fear of something being very wrong. All torqued bolts/nuts were torqued to spec.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, have you all experienced a very loud metal rubbing sound in the rears when going over even small dips/bumps in the road? Is this something normal like break-in where the suspension needs to "settle?"

Upon looking closer, BOTH sides of the rear suspension have metal touching metal. The contact is that the upper bag plate (between the air bag and the red spacer) is touching the shock itself. Attached is a photo below:



Obviously the first thing to check would be the bolt that screws into the bottom of the bag attaching it to the lower control arm. Since it sits in an elongated hole, the bag, unless the bolt is torqued at a very high value, can travel up and down that elongated hole. The install manual says to place the bolt as close to the subframe as possible, AKA away from the shock. I did exactly this, but when that photo was taken, the bolt had slid and ended up all the way toward the shock in that elongated hole. So, a couple questions:

1) Is it possible the value of 60 ft/lbs of torque is not enough to hold this bolt in place inside that elongated hole?

2) Could the threaded fitting in the bottom of the bag have stripped, allowing the bolt to spin freely and not be fully tightened?

3) Is the plate between the bag and the red spacer not mounted right? I don't see how this could be possible, as it's cupped so that if can only sit on top of the bag in one way.

Do you think this is the source of my hard rubbing sound coming from the rears when going over dips/bumps? Can I maybe just modify that plate by cutting a concave arc so that it will not touch the shock?

Thanks a million for listening so far and helping out!

[Digitalize]

Originally Posted by ayyy

Thanks for the reply. By droplinks, are you referencing the sway bar endlinks? That attach from the sway bar itself to the mounting tab on the airlift strut/shock? I would never want to completely remove them from the suspension for the sole purpose of getting lower, just so the stability of the suspension isn't compromised. I'm happier now with the front drop height but will try to rotate the strut in the knuckle and mess with the endlinks.

Yeah, there's some regional name differences. I'm assuming that:
Sway Bar - Anti Roll Bar (ARB)
Endlink - Droplink (connects from ARB to strut)

If you've got a GoPro or similar you could put it inside the wheel and film the bag airing out and get a better idea of what is happening. Or one of those bolt on hub stands people use at shows to show off concourse cars.

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by ayyy

URGENT UPDATE: so with the bottoms of the front shocks twisted all the way up, resulting in almost no remaining threads (max drop), the car sits much better. HOWEVER, upon driving the car away from where it had been for 3 days, there was an awful metal-on-metal rubbing sound coming from the driver's side rear. It seemed to make the sound when the driver's side rear wheel reaches the same point when rolling. This to me would reveal something like the heat shield rubbing against something on the wheel catching at the same point when the wheel rotates, but no such obstruction could be found. The sound would almost "ratchet," creaking in a way that sounded like something rubbing with great force making the contact jitter/hop. However, after driving up to roughly 30 mph, the sound went away, but have not driven it since for fear of something being very wrong. All torqued bolts/nuts were torqued to spec.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, have you all experienced a very loud metal rubbing sound in the rears when going over even small dips/bumps in the road? Is this something normal like break-in where the suspension needs to "settle?"

Upon looking closer, BOTH sides of the rear suspension have metal touching metal. The contact is that the upper bag plate (between the air bag and the red spacer) is touching the shock itself. Attached is a photo below:

Obviously the first thing to check would be the bolt that screws into the bottom of the bag attaching it to the lower control arm. Since it sits in an elongated hole, the bag, unless the bolt is torqued at a very high value, can travel up and down that elongated hole. The install manual says to place the bolt as close to the subframe as possible, AKA away from the shock. I did exactly this, but when that photo was taken, the bolt had slid and ended up all the way toward the shock in that elongated hole. So, a couple questions:

1) Is it possible the value of 60 ft/lbs of torque is not enough to hold this bolt in place inside that elongated hole?

2) Could the threaded fitting in the bottom of the bag have stripped, allowing the bolt to spin freely and not be fully tightened?

3) Is the plate between the bag and the red spacer not mounted right? I don't see how this could be possible, as it's cupped so that if can only sit on top of the bag in one way.

Do you think this is the source of my hard rubbing sound coming from the rears when going over dips/bumps? Can I maybe just modify that plate by cutting a concave arc so that it will not touch the shock?

Thanks a million for listening so far and helping out!

OK first of all, the top plate/spacer only touches the strut when the car is lifted, and there is no load on it. If you look at it when your car is on the ground, it should not touch. Mine does the same thing. i do not recommend cutting the spacer/plate.

As for the rear noise, hard to tell. I have had a 'clunk' in the passenger side rear that I can get to go away when I take off the wheel, check the torque specs. The clunk seems to go away for a while. I suspect that the clunk is from not having an alignment done yet.

Your noise could be from the toe arms hitting the car; did you install the toe arms correctly (bend is down and towards the rear). you may have installed these backwards?

Now on to the elongated hole in the lower control arm. My book said 20 ft lbs for torque on that bolt (going through the control arm and into the bottom of the air bag). I did end up over-torquing the drivers rear bag and pulling the brass fitting out about 1/8 inch. I smashed it back into the bag with a hammer and tap & died the threads, but to no avail. The brass fitting eventually came completely out of the bag (the pressure of the bag pressing on the control arm was the only thing holding the brass fitting in). I ordered a new bag ($150) and installed it correctly (although I was not able to get to 20ftlb, because I was afraid of doing the same thing; the lock washer is smushed though). I also had to add a washer on top of the control arm because the brass fitting damaged the elongated hole a bit. Mine bolt sits just fine and I have it sitting closer to the inside of the car in the elongated hole. You may want to remove the rear bags and check to see if you damaged the brass fitting in the bottom of the bag (is it pulled out?).

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by ayyy

Thanks so much for the detailed response. How were you informed that the correct orientation of the strut is with the little tab in the slit of the knuckle? Was it straight from airlift or another reputable source? I am not doubting your expertise, but I really don't see how the endlink could possibly reach the mounting tab on the strut with it rotated 90 more degrees. It would have to completely wrap around the strut in a seemingly impossible way.

I did achieve a much lower height after loosening the shock collar and twisting the bottom until there were almost no threads left. I was unable to 100% "slam" it as the fitting into the bag was preventing me from twisting the shock bottom any further. But there are only .5 inches of threads remaining on the top. But I guess if I can figure out a way to seat the shock into the knuckle as you've described, with the swaybar endlink being able to actually reach its mount on the strut, I will be able to get about an inch lower (as the shock sits higher in the knuckle currently with that tab stopping it).

Thanks again for the help!

I took my car to a shop that has done airlift installs before (blockstar in springfeild, VA). They told me that I had incorrectly installed the front and the tab should sit in the slot in the knuckle. They also, adjusted my end links to the suggested length in the instructions, so they do fit and does work, although they do hold the car up somehow.

You should remove the air line from the front bag, and thread the strut up all the way, then put the air line back in (with new thread tape of course). I literally have no threads left, and the tab into the slot in the knuckle.

at this point, I have completely removed my end links and I am driving without them. The car sits exactly where I want it to without them. I plan to take my car to a shop so they can figure out why the end links are holding up the car. maybe they can adjust the position of the sway bar and the end link length so that it all works. If not, I hope they can fabricate something to make it all work.

Here is the car without end links, it gets a lot lower..

[ayyy]

thanks so much igzekyativ for that detailed reply. Yeah, I guess I've heard enough people tell me that the front struts aren't positioned properly to believe them and that the endlinks will reach the tab on the shock.

It is entirely possible that I torqued the bolt on the bottom of the bag/control arm too much. It may have been 20 ft/lbs and I just remembered wrong; I don't have the install manuals on me to check. But it definitely moved after driving, because I lifted it up after driving for 10 minutes and the bolt had slid to where it is. You're saying that the next time I dropped it down on the ground fully that the plate would then have clearance? There are visible scuffs on the shock where the plate has rubbed, so I'm sure it's still in contact when driving and not just lifted.

I tried driving it around some more, and the rear noise was just so awful; too much to ignore. So I brought it to the Hot Rod Shop in Troy, MI where Jamie who has done over 100 unique airlift installs will do a free diagnostic. The car is HORRIBLY misaligned, as it was snowing and very slick out and I was literally drifting going straight the whole way there. It's a miracle I actually made it. So perhaps this will help that contact point in the rear once aligned. I mentioned to Jamie the rear plates touching the bags, the front struts not seated correctly, and most importantly the horrible grinding metal noise coming from the rears. So I'll be sure to update this thread with new info so that others will be able to learn from my mistakes!

Thanks again for all the help!

[igzekyativ]

I went to a shop today and we tried shortening the end links (to their shortest setting), but the car was too high.

We lengthened the end links to their max (10mm of threads inside each end link head). Length was set to ~285mm and the car sits much lower, but about 20-25mm higher than without end links installed. This is satisfactory for now, but will want it to go lower.

I need a longer center bar for the end links so that I can set the length to 310mm or so. Current center bar is about 162mm long.

It was counter-intuitive to lengthen the end links when lowering the car, but this has worked.

[ayyy]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to update you that the Hot Rod Shop in Troy, MI repaired everything with my bags and the car is driving great! Airlift actually got me two brand new bags under warranty to fix the rears (brass inserts were pulled out of the bottom of the bags) and the shop re-seated the front struts so that the tab was in the knuckle gap. So now no more horrible noises!

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

I went to a shop today and we tried shortening the end links (to their shortest setting), but the car was too high.

This is weird that the endlinks need to be lengthened so that they won't hold up the car. If you find a good way to get the front lower with those lengthened endlinks I might be interested if they're not too pricey.

However, I'm wondering how low you guys go PSI-wise on your fronts in order to get a nice, low ride height. Truthfully I like how it sits when my fronts are at 0 psi, so I'm basically wondering how low the front bags can be without risking damaging to the suspension components. I realize the ride will be horrible but I guess I'll just have to live with it. Right now my preset is 30/80 front/rear

[ayyy]

... aaand a photo:



Fullsize:

View post on imgur.com

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by ayyy

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to update you that the Hot Rod Shop in Troy, MI repaired everything with my bags and the car is driving great! Airlift actually got me two brand new bags under warranty to fix the rears (brass inserts were pulled out of the bottom of the bags) and the shop re-seated the front struts so that the tab was in the knuckle gap. So now no more horrible noises!



This is weird that the endlinks need to be lengthened so that they won't hold up the car. If you find a good way to get the front lower with those lengthened endlinks I might be interested if they're not too pricey.

However, I'm wondering how low you guys go PSI-wise on your fronts in order to get a nice, low ride height. Truthfully I like how it sits when my fronts are at 0 psi, so I'm basically wondering how low the front bags can be without risking damaging to the suspension components. I realize the ride will be horrible but I guess I'll just have to live with it. Right now my preset is 30/80 front/rear

First - I HIGHLY recommend you lengthen your end links. I fully understand how this works now.

The top end link connection point on the strut is a static point, no matter the height of the car. When the air bags deflate and the car lowers, the sway bar (and bushings) lowers too; this causes the end link connection to the sway bar to pull on the sway bar and it pivots. If your end link is too short, when you air out you end link is actually holding the car up; the weight of the front of the car is suspended on the end link and sway bar. The longer the end link, the lower you can go (to a certain point).

I think an end link length of 310mm-320mm is ideal. This will allow you to go as low as the car wants to without end links attached. I have not checked clearance for this length yet though as the end links that came with the kit can only go to ~285mm (while still leaving enough threads, ~13mm, inside the end link heads so the connection is strong and effective). I have clearance with this setting. --- Keep in mind I have an e91, so your results may vary.

Second, once you lengthen your end links, your ideal ride height will probably fall within the recommended ride PSI range of 35-45 PSI (for the front). I currently ride at 45PSI front and 92PSI rear (but I also raise/lengthened my rear struts almost 2 inches and my fronts are fully lowered with no threads left). I find 35 PSI to be too soft and bouncy, 45 PSI works great for me.

Third, I am glad you got the brass inserts warrantied. Although it is a bummer because I was denied warranty for the EXACT same problem. I had to buy a new bag.

[ayyy]

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

First - I HIGHLY recommend you lengthen your end links. I fully understand how this works now.

Very interesting stuff. I understand how the endlinks would be holding up the car via the sway bar after reading your explanation. I guess my first question would be how bad is this for the sway bar/bushings/other components? For the entire weight of the front end of the car to be supported by two small metal rods? Surely they're not built for that.

Secondly, what is your plan moving forward for lengthening the endlinks? Will you be purchasing ones that are adjustable but have a longer center threaded portion or will you be customizing? I may be interested in getting some if you find a pair that work.

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by ayyy

Very interesting stuff. I understand how the endlinks would be holding up the car via the sway bar after reading your explanation. I guess my first question would be how bad is this for the sway bar/bushings/other components? For the entire weight of the front end of the car to be supported by two small metal rods? Surely they're not built for that.

Secondly, what is your plan moving forward for lengthening the endlinks? Will you be purchasing ones that are adjustable but have a longer center threaded portion or will you be customizing? I may be interested in getting some if you find a pair that work.

Presume it is not good for the sway bar/bushings/end links.

As for lengthening, I found a fully threaded rod with the same thread size and pitch as the end link heads. It is a meter long, so I plan to cut it down to size. It was hard to find this rod, especially because it needs to be grade 8.

[ayyy]

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

Presume it is not good for the sway bar/bushings/end links.

As for lengthening, I found a fully threaded rod with the same thread size and pitch as the end link heads. It is a meter long, so I plan to cut it down to size. It was hard to find this rod, especially because it needs to be grade 8.

Thanks for the link. I'm interested to see how this will work for you. Let me know how the custom fab goes!

[mashimarho]

Finally been able to figure out the issue with mine. Everything is looking a lot better now. It's only taken me a YEAR to figure out how this damn this works!
Now, to find the perfect fitment wheels. I feel as if my 19x9.5 +22 & 19x11 +25 isn't cutting it.

[mantis]

Originally Posted by ayyy

Thanks for the link. I'm interested to see how this will work for you. Let me know how the custom fab goes!

cordova bolt supply has all thread up to 3"

[igzekyativ]

Originally Posted by mashimarho

Finally been able to figure out the issue with mine. Everything is looking a lot better now. It's only taken me a YEAR to figure out how this damn this works!
Now, to find the perfect fitment wheels. I feel as if my 19x9.5 +22 & 19x11 +25 isn't cutting it.

what was your issue? how did you resolve it?

Originally Posted by mantis

cordova bolt supply has all thread up to 3"

link? did you mean 3 feet, not inches?

[mantis]

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

what was your issue? how did you resolve it?



link? did you mean 3 feet, not inches?

https://www.cordovabolt.com/

no i mean threads up to 3" the length is up to you, you want 2" or 12".

we used this company for all the oil patch parts, they sell and machine all grades.

[mantis]

Originally Posted by mashimarho

Finally been able to figure out the issue with mine. Everything is looking a lot better now. It's only taken me a YEAR to figure out how this damn this works!
Now, to find the perfect fitment wheels. I feel as if my 19x9.5 +22 & 19x11 +25 isn't cutting it.

yo im thinking of trying to squeeze some forgestars SDCs 19x10 squared, what wasnt fitting on your setup?

[mashimarho]

Originally Posted by mantis

yo im thinking of trying to squeeze some forgestars SDCs 19x10 squared, what wasnt fitting on your setup?

Shouldn't have any issues. Especially with 10 SDC. Have you found a set yet? I can get you a set if you haven't.

Originally Posted by igzekyativ

what was your issue? how did you resolve it?

Had major adjustments to the rear shock. Had to lower the strut into the lower mount quite a bit more than I thought.

[igzekyativ]

ayyy the custom end links worked out great! I set the end links to 310mm long and it is perfect. The car tucks the fronts nicely.

The length of threaded rod I bought was able to make 4 center bars, 210mm long each (the center bars that came with the kit were ~162mm long). I can sell you the extra two center bars I had made if you want them; they are cut and ready to go.

[igzekyativ]

Forgot to mention, installed some dynamat in the rear tub to help with the sound of the compressor, worked out great.

[Misterp214]

so i went to get an alignment and the car is steering to the right. im trying to figure out if camber could so something about the car steering. on the left i have my camber set to 5.9 and on the right its set to 6.6. do you think that the camber could make the car steer to the right because of the .7 difference on the right side? i feel like this is the problem but i just want to hear what others have to say.

[ayyy]

anyone have recommendations for a wheel and tire setup for my pre-LCI e92 335xi on airlift performance? I'm looking at 19" specifically and am leaning towards a square setup to allow for tire rotation and less understeer, while getting a lower offset in the rears to still get an aggressive look.