[sickem]

OP, do you get a burning oil smell in the cabin after driving and stopping at, say, a traffic light? My car is 6AT and when i run the car in steptronic mode the burning smell increases.

[E90Company]

Any type of oil consumption is NOT normal, period. Your car should not be burning any oil. If you are, something is wrong. The amount of oil some of you guys lose, calling it "normal," is crazy. Oil consumption issues can come from faulty PCV components, piston ring sealing issues, blown turbos, valve stem seals, valve cover gasket, leaky oil fittings/lines to oil coolers etc.

[sickem]

Originally Posted by E90Company

Any type of oil consumption is NOT normal, period. Your car should not be burning any oil. If you are, something is wrong. The amount of oil some of you guys lose, calling it "normal," is crazy. Oil consumption issues can come from faulty PCV components, piston ring sealing issues, blown turbos, valve stem seals, valve cover gasket, leaky oil fittings/lines to oil coolers etc.

I guess we should discern between "normal" and "acceptable," or "not indicative of a major problem." I'm no expert but saying oil consumption should never happen seems a bit extreme. i mean, why are many people running OCC's? Plus, some burned oil probably is expected since engines are very hot and having some get burned seems pretty reasonable to me.

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by sickem

I guess we should discern between "normal" and "acceptable," or "not indicative of a major problem." I'm no expert but saying oil consumption should never happen seems a bit extreme. i mean, why are many people running OCC's? Plus, some burned oil probably is expected since engines are very hot and having some get burned seems pretty reasonable to me.

I wasn't directing that to you lol.

But yes, it may be "acceptable", just note that something IS causing the consuption that otherwise shouldn't be and isn't "normal". My car burns zero oil. People run OCC's 50% because of vendor marketing, 50% because they think it's helping their car's longevity. Fact is, they are only further restricting ability of their check valve's ability to release crankcase gasses by increasing the restriction of that hose, building up unnecessary pressure in the crankcase which can cause a multitude of issues (something you do not ever want).

I consider a regularly maintained/new check valve, @Rob@RBTurbo valve cover PCV upgrade, and no catch can a stock turbo N54's ideal setup. The stock valve cover PCV builds up pressure in the crank because they ALL leak, and that pressure needs to go somewhere. If the check valve is obstructed with an OCC, the pressure has nowhere to go except past the piston rings, and you end up burning crankcase oil. Not good.

[SharkBait]

Originally Posted by E90Company

Any type of oil consumption is NOT normal, period. Your car should not be burning any oil. If you are, something is wrong. The amount of oil some of you guys lose, calling it "normal," is crazy. Oil consumption issues can come from faulty PCV components, piston ring sealing issues, blown turbos, valve stem seals, valve cover gasket, leaky oil fittings/lines to oil coolers etc.

Tell that to BMW! They seem to think 1 quart every 1,000 miles is perfectly OK. How do you make a case to BMW when they think it's perfectly normal to need to add oil every third tank of gas!

Mind you, turbos DO burn a little oil especially when run hard. To say our cars should burn no oil at all is a little misleading. It may be more accurate to say oil consumption for a healthy motor should be low enough that you don't really notice it between oil changes.

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by SharkBait

Tell that to BMW! They seem to think 1 quart every 1,000 miles is perfectly OK. How do you make a case to BMW when they think it's perfectly normal to need to add oil every third tank of gas!

Mind you, turbos DO burn a little oil especially when run hard. To say our cars should burn no oil at all is a little misleading. It may be more accurate to say oil consumption for a healthy motor should be low enough that you don't really notice it between oil changes.

It's because they don't want to fix whatever the problem is especially if it's an internal problem. Of course they tell you that.

No, turbos should not burn any oil when operated within their efficiency ranges. Some of the piggyback tunes such as JB4 and Procede have the ability to put your turbos out of their efficiency ranges targeting absolute boost, which of course at that point anything is possible (EVERY turbo is not designed to be overspun and you can/will have oil issues at that point). When I say a motor shouldn't burn any oil, I'm referencing no noticable oil loss visually, or on the "electronic meter" (No dipstick ) in between oil change intervals. Sure, running turbos as small as these at the top of their efficiency ranges will put extra wear and tear on them, but I'm not talking about age induced seal leakage in this case (which obviously happens earlier with a tune).

[135Pats]

The entire PCV system should be regularly checked out, its a weak point in the cars design for sure. Agreed that oil loss is not "normal", but i also agree that it doesnt mean your motor is in serious trouble. My car smokes like a chimney until it gets hot, im still convinced its turbo seals, but that remains unclear.

Out of curiosity, do we have any examples of oil blowing by rings? The N54 has significant oil control issues, but valve and piston seating dont seem to be at all common, unlike say a crappy check valve, failing turbo seal, oil return line etc etc.

[SharkBait]

Originally Posted by E90Company

No, turbos should not burn any oil when operated within their efficiency ranges.

Are you talking about stock or with an OCC? As you mentioned in your earlier post there is some pressure in the crank on a stock motor even with a known good PCV.

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The entire PCV system should be regularly checked out, its a weak point in the cars design for sure. Agreed that oil loss is not "normal", but i also agree that it doesnt mean your motor is in serious trouble.

Any DIYs on checking the PCV for proper function?

[enrita]

When u use 1/2 liter every 100km your engine is shot. Your consuption is bit high and probably one of your turbos is burning it. Also put some 5w-40 oil instead of 0w-30 if you drive hard

[dicostal]

Originally Posted by enrita

When u use 1/2 liter every 100km your engine is shot. Your consuption is bit high and probably one of your turbos is burning it. Also put some 5w-40 oil instead of 0w-30 if you drive hard

it is not normal. I have 70k miles, I drive hard, change the oil every 7.5k miles and I don't burn any oil at all.

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The entire PCV system should be regularly checked out, its a weak point in the cars design for sure. Agreed that oil loss is not "normal", but i also agree that it doesnt mean your motor is in serious trouble. My car smokes like a chimney until it gets hot, im still convinced its turbo seals, but that remains unclear.

Out of curiosity, do we have any examples of oil blowing by rings? The N54 has significant oil control issues, but valve and piston seating dont seem to be at all common, unlike say a crappy check valve, failing turbo seal, oil return line etc etc.

As motors age, this happens. My points in the OCC post above would just add/speed it up. Yes, faulty check valves and PCV valves, turbo seals, valve stem seals, etc will be more common as they tend to be less reliable/were poorly maintained.

Originally Posted by SharkBait

Are you talking about stock or with an OCC? As you mentioned in your earlier post there is some pressure in the crank on a stock motor even with a known good PCV.

This is a boosted car, so you will always have some crankcase pressure, even on stock cars as you say. That's the purpose of the CCV system, to remove the blow-by gasses under pressure. The problem is the OEM PCV valve in the valve cover leaks, even brand new ones from BMW. This lets pressurized boost air enter the crankcase from the intake manifold, pressurizing it. It's a very poorly designed part.

That said, their are other sources of oil blowing past the seals in the turbos such as the poorly designed oil drain lines. This is why hybrid turbos are at risk of this problem just as easily as the stock turbos are. As Pat said, the entire oil system on the N54 is really just a very poor system.

[sickem]

Originally Posted by E90Company

I wasn't directing that to you lol.

But yes, it may be "acceptable", just note that something IS causing the consuption that otherwise shouldn't be and isn't "normal". My car burns zero oil. People run OCC's 50% because of vendor marketing, 50% because they think it's helping their car's longevity. Fact is, they are only further restricting ability of their check valve's ability to release crankcase gasses by increasing the restriction of that hose, building up unnecessary pressure in the crankcase which can cause a multitude of issues (something you do not ever want).

I consider a regularly maintained/new check valve, @Rob@RBTurbo valve cover PCV upgrade, and no catch can a stock turbo N54's ideal setup. The stock valve cover PCV builds up pressure in the crank because they ALL leak, and that pressure needs to go somewhere. If the check valve is obstructed with an OCC, the pressure has nowhere to go except past the piston rings, and you end up burning crankcase oil. Not good.

hey didn't mean to come off prickly. I agree that these cars shouldn't be burning significant amounts of oil but some is probably within "spec." We need to all remember that BMW is in the business of making money so if they performed extensive warranty work to track down every drop of lost oil our cars would be $240,000 to compensate!!! OCC's are an interesting topic in and of themselves and for another thread...but there can be oil blow-by. while i'm not mechanic, it seems that OCC's treat the symptoms and not the illness.

[Pooj]

So when I came back from from work i started it and wanted to film, but it didnt do it ( the blue smoke )..

The car does misfire sometimes, sparks are new.. Dunno if its related.

[SharkBait]

Originally Posted by sickem

hey didn't mean to come off prickly. I agree that these cars shouldn't be burning significant amounts of oil but some is probably within "spec." We need to all remember that BMW is in the business of making money so if they performed extensive warranty work to track down every drop of lost oil our cars would be $240,000 to compensate!!!

The problem is BMW's official "in spec" (less than 1qt every 1,000 miles) is way way out of spec with what any of us would think is even close to reasonable.

Knowing that a healthy motor should burn almost no oil, when would you consider it a problem you can no longer ignore (i.e. you would pay to fix it or make the effort to fix it yourself)? Is it 1qt every 2,500 miles? 5,000 miles? 10,000? When is it tolerable vs. needs to be fixed?

Originally Posted by Pooj

So when I came back from from work i started it and wanted to film, but it didnt do it ( the blue smoke )..

The car does misfire sometimes, sparks are new.. Dunno if its related.

It's all in your head! Just kidding. Again your exhaust would smell oily if you were burning it at a reasonable amount. Misfire would likely be unrelated.

[rismo]

So I just returned from my dealer were a friend of my is chief mech and did a lot of work on both my car's in the past.
I discussed with him about my oil usage. 2 liters in 3000Km. Officialy this is within BMW specs -> 1ltr / 1000km. But he agreed it is not what should be considered as normal.
The dilemma he explained to me: opening the engine and start digging could be a long trip to make resulting in at least 3-4 days of labour without knowing what you will find. This would be in my case about 3-4000 euro's... he asked me to calculate how much oil I could buy for that. He is totally on my side but he was not sure if he would open the engine himself if it was his car. As BMW employee he should have stated, bring the car, we check it and send me a bill of thousands of euro's... but he does not prefer that approach.

So dilemma, dilemma... I already switched to 5w40 and they will inspect my DP's/tur'bo outlets to see if the turbo's are causing the usage. He does not thing that it would be the oil piping as in that case I should have observed oil on my parking spot.

My oil usage is extreme when I drive for a longer trip under above normal load.

[Pooj]

Ok, so when I shut my car off sometimes randomly the oil icon lights in the dash..

So this morning I left it 3 mins after doing the oil check in the idrive and the link below is the result..

Engine level OK? wtf? this is a little under minimum right ? its the green lake at the bottem right ? should be almost full no ?

check it out :

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_1O...it?usp=sharing

[rismo]

Looks like your oil is at max level, what is your concern exactly?
The oil sensor in the car can be corrupted. Max and Min levels are fixed sensor spots... they are never off, everything between is a kind of "guestimate"...

[Pooj]

about 3-4 times when i shut my car off in my dash appeared an oil warning sign.

I thought the green thing at the bottom had to be full i guess its my mistake.

Anyways, in about 9-10 months, i had to fill the oil 3 times. Seems more acceptable, I really thought my oil was empty this time.

[Pooj]

Yep so today I drove a little and when I shut the car off It warned me engine oil minimum.
Are you guys sure that in my last post, the oil level is maybe not the bar on the right but the green filling at the bottom?

[Pooj]

just watched a vid on youtube seems like its the gage on the right thanks guys

[rismo]

Originally Posted by rismo

So I just returned from my dealer were a friend of my is chief mech and did a lot of work on both my car's in the past.
I discussed with him about my oil usage. 2 liters in 3000Km. Officialy this is within BMW specs -> 1ltr / 1000km. But he agreed it is not what should be considered as normal.
The dilemma he explained to me: opening the engine and start digging could be a long trip to make resulting in at least 3-4 days of labour without knowing what you will find. This would be in my case about 3-4000 euro's... he asked me to calculate how much oil I could buy for that. He is totally on my side but he was not sure if he would open the engine himself if it was his car. As BMW employee he should have stated, bring the car, we check it and send me a bill of thousands of euro's... but he does not prefer that approach.

So dilemma, dilemma... I already switched to 5w40 and they will inspect my DP's/tur'bo outlets to see if the turbo's are causing the usage. He does not thing that it would be the oil piping as in that case I should have observed oil on my parking spot.

My oil usage is extreme when I drive for a longer trip under above normal load.

So my mechanic took my exhaust of today. Completely dry, also no oil seems to be dripping from my turbo's...
I think my next step is to order the PCV valve from Robbeck