E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > BMW Coding > VVT, ESS, ISTAP Nightmare



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-14-2022, 02:56 PM   #1
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
VVT, ESS, ISTAP Nightmare

Summary of entire thread in this post: Post #31

Hello all!

Love this forum, have been using the threads non-stop since getting my pride and joy, my 2011 E90 328xi LCI.

BACKSTORY:
Early on, I had been attempting to use 'carly' and the like, and noticed it refused to code FRM. Automatically assuming the module to be dead , I immediately went and purchased a new FRM3 (I know, dumbass lmao)

Fast forward about 8 months, and ive never tried to swap out the FRM. So I have purchased an MST-80 voltage reg and did about a month of research here, going down a crazy rabbit hole.

So at this point, having experienced the car more, i have a few small annoyances that my local indy told me could very likely be worked out with many module updates. Figured, since I was thinking of swapping the FRM, may aswell software update the rest.

ATTEMPTS MADE:
I learned here to use INPA , and pull a complete UIF for all the ZUSB #'s i would need to enter into winkfp. (winkfp instead of IstaP due to K+Dcan, not ICOM, NO MOST based modules)

Issue #1:
When running the UIF function in inpa, after trying 10+ times, I get a different list of modules everytime. Sometimes 1 or 2, sometimes 13-14.
Is there a known reason why some of my modules would only communicate occasionally?

Issue #2:
When loading the few ZUSB i was able to retrieve into winkfp, i constantly get a 209 error (not found in config files). I believe some, or possibly even most of my vehicles parts may have been swapped at some point making my goal of tracking down each more difficult.

Issue #3:
When using RealOem with my vin # 9/10 times i get totally different part #'s then what has shown up in ista+ scan, or inpa scans.
EG. according to Real-OEM my ista+ scan (shown below) says PK77, but Real_OEM picks up my vin as PK73. Is this an issue? what am I missing here.
(copied from REALOEM - You Have Selected: 3' E90 LCI BMW 328xi. Type Code: PK73)

MATERIALS:
-BimmerGeeks K+Dcan 'expert' cable
-windows 10 with manually installed BMW TOOLS + SP DATEN from bimmergeeks
-Also tried BMW CODING V3 vmware image, with pre-installed tools and SP DATEN v55

TL;DR / GOAL:
So as all can see, Ive done tons of research and basically overloaded myself lol. I would like to update all of my modules (most software is 2006-2011) that can be done reliably with K+Dcan. And once completed, would like to swap in and code my new FRM3,That part i have many threads and videos for

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this all!

https://pasteboard.co/PY9Ke52FPy0O.png

Last edited by l8nit3; 06-04-2022 at 09:50 AM.. Reason: More descriptive title of the actual issue
Appreciate 0
      05-19-2022, 03:41 PM   #2
APe90
New Member
United_States
2
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW 328i, 2002 VW Jetta
Join Date: May 2022
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

From my understanding, error 209 is related to your configuration… or, not having the proper voltage/power supply. You have to have 13+v when trying to flash/program/code. A standard battery charger typically doesn’t fit the criteria (There maybe some out there that do)…

As for the configuration. What are your settings?

Programming voltage, unchecked.

Show programming voltage, unchecked.

Fast baudrate, unchecked.

Test checksum, checked.

Force program programming in comfort mode, checked.

Active bootsector update, checked.

UIF write, checked in everything EXCEPT for expert mode.

As for API tracelevel & IFH tracelevel, I’ve seen conflicting info.

Some people say to change the both to “1”. Some people say “0”.

So, I assume that it isn’t really too important… but, you could try each one and see if anything happens.

Also, make sure your comport and latency settings (in device manager) are still correct. Some people have the problem of windows changing it back to default after updates, or, shutdown. Wouldn’t hurt just to check.

And also, make sure that your OBD.ini file is correct. (COMPORT, interface, etc.)
Appreciate 0
      05-19-2022, 05:20 PM   #3
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by APe90 View Post
From my understanding, error 209 is related to your configuration… or, not having the proper voltage/power supply. You have to have 13+v when trying to flash/program/code. A standard battery charger typically doesn’t fit the criteria (There maybe some out there that do)…

As for the configuration. What are your settings?

Programming voltage, unchecked.

Show programming voltage, unchecked.

Fast baudrate, unchecked.

Test checksum, checked.

Force program programming in comfort mode, checked.

Active bootsector update, checked.

UIF write, checked in everything EXCEPT for expert mode.

As for API tracelevel & IFH tracelevel, I’ve seen conflicting info.

Some people say to change the both to “1”. Some people say “0”.

So, I assume that it isn’t really too important… but, you could try each one and see if anything happens.

Also, make sure your comport and latency settings (in device manager) are still correct. Some people have the problem of windows changing it back to default after updates, or, shutdown. Wouldn’t hurt just to check.

And also, make sure that your OBD.ini file is correct. (COMPORT, interface, etc.)
Thanks so much for the tips!

Voltage: I use an MST-80 Voltage regulator to maintain 13.6-13.8 throughout the procedure.

Everything else I will absolutely check this weekend when i have the free time and get back to you.

Thank you for taking the time
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2022, 05:58 AM   #4
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post

Issue #1:
When running the UIF function in inpa, after trying 10+ times, I get a different list of modules everytime. Sometimes 1 or 2, sometimes 13-14.
Is there a known reason why some of my modules would only communicate occasionally?

Issue #2:
When loading the few ZUSB i was able to retrieve into winkfp, i constantly get a 209 error (not found in config files). I believe some, or possibly even most of my vehicles parts may have been swapped at some point making my goal of tracking down each more difficult.

Issue #3:
When using RealOem with my vin # 9/10 times i get totally different part #'s then what has shown up in ista+ scan, or inpa scans.
EG. according to Real-OEM my ista+ scan (shown below) says PK77, but Real_OEM picks up my vin as PK73. Is this an issue? what am I missing here.
(copied from REALOEM - You Have Selected: 3' E90 LCI BMW 328xi. Type Code: PK73)
"Fehler 209" likely results from a communication error but "209" is not the definitive part of the report. There should be other entries in the box below "COAPI Fehlereintrage". Post them.

The fact that you have errors in both INPA and WinKFP strongly suggests the problem does not stem from WinKFP (or INPA) configuration. And FWIW, most if not all of the parameters you listed are generally not very important - WinKFP will work no matter how you set them. That said, check "fast baud rate". Tracelevel sets the level of detail for a log of the steps the program takes during operation. It is completely unimportant in your case.

VERY commonly this sort of error results from a failure to set the "latency" to 1ms. . If you haven't checked this, do so. Briefly; plug the KCAN cable into your laptop then open Device Manager->Ports (COM&LPT) -> USB serial port -> Port settings -> Advanced -Latency Timer (msec)

Keep in mind that some windows installations randomly reset this parameter to 16ms. The first thing to do when experiencing communication errors like this is to check latency.

It could also be due to errors in EDIABAS setup. Make sure that you have the correct interface listed in "Ediabas.ini" i.e. "STD:ODB"

Last edited by dpaul; 05-20-2022 at 01:07 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2022, 09:21 AM   #5
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
"Fehler 209" likely results from a communication error but "209" is not the definitive part of the report. There should be other entries in the box below "COAPI Fehlereintrage". Post them.

The fact that you have errors in both INPA and WinKFP strongly suggests the problem does not stem from WinKFP (or INPA) configuration. And FWIW, most if not all of the parameters you listed are generally not very important - WinKFP will work no matter how you set them. That said, check "fast baud rate". Tracelevel turns on or off a log of the steps the program takes during operation so it is completely unimportant.

VERY commonly this sort of error results from a failure to set the "latency" to 1ms. . If you haven't checked this, do so. Briefly; plug the KCAN cable into your laptop then open Device Manager->Ports (COM&LPT) -> USB serial port -> Port settings -> Advanced -Latency Timer (msec)

Keep in mind that some windows installations randomly reset this parameter to 16ms. The first thing to do when experiencing communication errors like this is to check latency.

It could also be due to errors in EDIABAS setup. Make sure that you have the correct interface listed in "Ediabas.ini" i.e. "STD:ODB"
Thank you so much for the detailed reply!
indeed, my latency settings were wrong. Im hoping for a dry day this weekend to test out all the updated settings.

I have heard conflicting views on 'fast baud rate' setting. Using the K+Dcan cable (bimmergeeks) which would be best?
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2022, 01:04 PM   #6
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Thank you so much for the detailed reply!
indeed, my latency settings were wrong. Im hoping for a dry day this weekend to test out all the updated settings.

I have heard conflicting views on 'fast baud rate' setting. Using the K+Dcan cable (bimmergeeks) which would be best?
Check use fast rate. Unless you wish to go slower than is necessary.

Uncheck boot sector update. Out of an abundance of caution. Doesn't really matter since there is no boot sector file anyway.

Check or uncheck write UIF in comfort mode - up to you. If unchecked, WinKFP will not update the flash counter but will also won't update the UIF to reflect your updated ZUSB either.

Check or uncheck UIF write after data/program - up to you. Only matters for 'expert' mode, which you will not be using. 'Expert' mode means you manually chose the files for WinKFP to use. 'Comfort' mode means WinKFP chooses for you.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.

Last edited by dpaul; 05-20-2022 at 01:19 PM..
Appreciate 1
Mike K121.50
      05-21-2022, 03:34 PM   #7
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Was finally able to connect properly and get a few modules updated! Latency settings was my biggest issue. now just getting the correct spdatens for all my modules lol

thank you all so much for the assistance!
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2022, 04:16 PM   #8
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Was finally able to connect properly and get a few modules updated! Latency settings was my biggest issue. now just getting the correct spdatens for all my modules lol

thank you all so much for the assistance!
Im sure all were expecting this next post, however i have run into some issues... large ones.

I managed to get everything to connect , and used winkfp for the modules I was able to find properly in the winkfp 'choose ecu' list.Some however I was unable to find.

Due to this I loaded up IstaP, and was able to run a FULL scan and update. After some issues due to an aftermarket head unit (swapped the OEM back in and went fine) I managed to get all the way through the update procedure, the only error being the satellite tuner (which i dont think i have anyways).

Unhook my MST-80 voltage regulator , and car starts and runs beautifully. Many of my little annoyances are now gone !

Happy day......NOPE.

Go to start it this morning , no crank, no start, no anything but lights, HOWEVER, i have full access to ista+ istaP and inpa, and the only fault codes showing are from FRM (leds and such from previous mods.)

With no real error to go by im not sure where to start.

is it possible I fried my battery and am having low voltage issues? or maybe something more scary?
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2022, 08:39 PM   #9
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Im sure all were expecting this next post, however i have run into some issues... large ones.

I managed to get everything to connect , and used winkfp for the modules I was able to find properly in the winkfp 'choose ecu' list.Some however I was unable to find.

Due to this I loaded up IstaP, and was able to run a FULL scan and update. After some issues due to an aftermarket head unit (swapped the OEM back in and went fine) I managed to get all the way through the update procedure, the only error being the satellite tuner (which i dont think i have anyways).

Unhook my MST-80 voltage regulator , and car starts and runs beautifully. Many of my little annoyances are now gone !

Happy day......NOPE.

Go to start it this morning , no crank, no start, no anything but lights, HOWEVER, i have full access to ista+ istaP and inpa, and the only fault codes showing are from FRM (leds and such from previous mods.)

With no real error to go by im not sure where to start.

is it possible I fried my battery and am having low voltage issues? or maybe something more scary?
What are the specific codes are you seeing and how did you read them?

In any case, since you report that the car started and ran after your update, a low voltage condition developing overnight (i.e drained or damaged battery) is a reasonable suspicion. So start by measuring the voltage. You can do this most easily with a simple $5 DVM from harbor freight or easily enough with INPA.

FWIW PK73 and PK77 are the same car but the former is assembled in Germany and the latter in South Africa (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7rR6cqhET6sNy4). Realoem is not perfect - I've seen it make errors - so that could be the explanation.

Last edited by dpaul; 05-24-2022 at 09:06 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2022, 05:32 PM   #10
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
What are the specific codes are you seeing and how did you read them?

In any case, since you report that the car started and ran after your update, a low voltage condition developing overnight (i.e drained or damaged battery) is a reasonable suspicion. So start by measuring the voltage. You can do this most easily with a simple $5 DVM from harbor freight or easily enough with INPA.

FWIW PK73 and PK77 are the same car but the former is assembled in Germany and the latter in South Africa (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7rR6cqhET6sNy4). Realoem is not perfect - I've seen it make errors - so that could be the explanation.
Ok, ill start as i should have initially (my bad for only providing partial info)

Cause:
I updated all modules with IstaP, ran once afterwards, then no crank on starter. Dash lights up, and fuel pump (i think) makes priming noises. very similar to the "terminal 30 failed" symptoms.

VIN last 7: NN85977
Model & year: 2011 328Xi LCI , No Idrive or navi
Used software: Ista+ for diag, IstaP for updating module software.
Known Issues: My FRM_70 is failing absolutely, and is the cause of half of my error codes i believe, however im fairly certain has nothing to do with my no crank issue.

Current faults codes, and method of reading:
In Dash console:
CCID-353
CCID-681
CCID-232
CCID-167
CCID-354

from Ista+:
002A3F : dme valvetronic actuator motor power supply
002A77: dma control unit, internal fault: valvetronic output stage
006EC4: DSC steering angle sensor adjustment
00A3C1: message error (lighting state, 0x21A)
00A3B4: Message error (footwell module, 0x4F0)
00ABEA: Radio connection
00C5AE : staellite tuner
00CDAB: message error lamp condition

Additional info:
The FRM I am aware of, and i had my headlights disconnected during the scan for a lower power draw (suggested on a forum).
Coming from a tech background I assumed doing updates was an important and necessary thing,
and was attempting to do so in the interest of 'general maintenance' lol
I am very quickly becoming a 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' kind of person.

Attempted repairs:
I luckily work at a wrecking yard and have access to minor things for testing purposes.
-Re-run Ista-P in case something had glitched - no change
-Battery changed, no difference.
-Terminal 30/30g relay has been replaced with a known good one, no change.

My fear:
Im worried somehow my CAS/DME link has is dead in someway, stopping the ignition. I am REALLY hoping it is not a fried CAS, however 'google university' has me terrified lol

My main goal:
To get this thing to start and run! Any FRM issues i can fix later (I have a new one ready to swap, once were running again)

Attached are my INPA UIF scan showing what has been updated, and my ISTA error code list.

Any and all assistance/ideas/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

<Edit #1>
found the info below with some research, is it possible i need an updated IBS sensor to match the newly updated DME? I assume not as I know some completely disconnect the IBS to bypass other issues.

"Note: The software in the DME and that of the IBS must match. To ensure this requirement it may be necessary to replace the IBS in connection with a software update."
Attached Images
  

Last edited by l8nit3; 05-26-2022 at 07:55 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2022, 08:08 PM   #11
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

I'll start with the admonition to get rid of ISTA-P. It does not understand vehicles that might be non-standard. It does not allow fine (individual module) control and updates all sorts of things in ways that you might not want. It is dangerous to use without an ICOM adapter, which I gather you do not have. So, I presume you are using the emulator software to run the KCAN cable. Not safe.

Use WinKFP to update the programming for one module at a time. It is bulletproof. Use NCSExpert to update the coding for one module at a time. If you don't understand the difference between programming and coding, google it. Learn to use INPA for diagnostics - it is much more powerful than ISTA-D. It is less user-friendly but there are plenty of threads describing its capabilities.

That said, I'm happy your engine started and ran after your 'update'. That means whatever programming/coding was commanded was executed successfully, or successfully enough.

To begin with, I am not sure what symptom you are experiencing: is your problem that the starter motor does not turn or does the starter crank the engine but the engine does not fire?

I'll assume it's the former and if so, there are a limited number of possibilities that you can easily test without spending any money or making completely random guesses like replacing the Terminal 30G relay:

In order of (what I think is) most likely:
1) The battery is weak/dead.
2) The starter motor is bad
3) The ground cable from engine to chassis is corroded.
4) Positive lead from battery to engine compartment jumper terminal is damaged, usually corroded at the battery box connector due to water accumulation.
6) Wire/connectors from CAS to the starter solenoid is bad
7) Internal circuitry in CAS is damaged.
8) The switch sensing depression of clutch (for manual trans) or brake pedal (automatic, as in your case) is bad, or the wires /connectors associated with it are bad.


Luckily, INPA can measure all the voltages and test all the switches for you:

Turn the ignition on but don't try to start the car.
Load INPA then select E90->Body->Car Access System (CAS) -> F5 Status -> F2 Analog -> F1 Diagnose Terminals

Look at any KL30 bar graph (i.e. KL30L, KL30E etc). If the voltage is significantly less than 12 (like low 11s or less), your battery has a problem. KL50L (V), the voltage on the line to the starter solenoid, and KL50L (A), the current drawn by the solenoid should both be zero.

Then try pushing the start button. The voltage on KL50 should go up. If the starter engaged and the battery was healthy you'd read about 10V or so because the high current drain of the starter causes the battery voltage to drop. KL50L (A) would be in the range of 7 amps or so - that's just what the solenoid is drawing, not the starter motor itself. If KL50L V stays at zero, your CAS is damaged. If it goes to 12 (or whatever the resting battery voltage is), there could be a damaged wire/connector between CAS and solenoid


You can test the pedal switches by selecting E90->INPA -> Body->CAS -> F5 Status -> F1 Digital -> F2 Status Clamp contro. Press the pedal and make sure the circle changes from white to black

Ground and battery cables are easy to test. Just use a jumper cable to bypass them.

Good luck!

Last edited by dpaul; 05-26-2022 at 08:15 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2022, 06:23 AM   #12
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
I'll start with the admonition to get rid of ISTA-P. It does not understand vehicles that might be non-standard. It does not allow fine (individual module) control and updates all sorts of things in ways that you might not want. It is dangerous to use without an ICOM adapter, which I gather you do not have. So, I presume you are using the emulator software to run the KCAN cable. Not safe.

Use WinKFP to update the programming for one module at a time. It is bulletproof. Use NCSExpert to update the coding for one module at a time. If you don't understand the difference between programming and coding, google it. Learn to use INPA for diagnostics - it is much more powerful than ISTA-D. It is less user-friendly but there are plenty of threads describing its capabilities.

That said, I'm happy your engine started and ran after your 'update'. That means whatever programming/coding was commanded was executed successfully, or successfully enough.

To begin with, I am not sure what symptom you are experiencing: is your problem that the starter motor does not turn or does the starter crank the engine but the engine does not fire?

I'll assume it's the former and if so, there are a limited number of possibilities that you can easily test without spending any money or making completely random guesses like replacing the Terminal 30G relay:

In order of (what I think is) most likely:
1) The battery is weak/dead.
2) The starter motor is bad
3) The ground cable from engine to chassis is corroded.
4) Positive lead from battery to engine compartment jumper terminal is damaged, usually corroded at the battery box connector due to water accumulation.
6) Wire/connectors from CAS to the starter solenoid is bad
7) Internal circuitry in CAS is damaged.
8) The switch sensing depression of clutch (for manual trans) or brake pedal (automatic, as in your case) is bad, or the wires /connectors associated with it are bad.


Luckily, INPA can measure all the voltages and test all the switches for you:

Turn the ignition on but don't try to start the car.
Load INPA then select E90->Body->Car Access System (CAS) -> F5 Status -> F2 Analog -> F1 Diagnose Terminals

Look at any KL30 bar graph (i.e. KL30L, KL30E etc). If the voltage is significantly less than 12 (like low 11s or less), your battery has a problem. KL50L (V), the voltage on the line to the starter solenoid, and KL50L (A), the current drawn by the solenoid should both be zero.

Then try pushing the start button. The voltage on KL50 should go up. If the starter engaged and the battery was healthy you'd read about 10V or so because the high current drain of the starter causes the battery voltage to drop. KL50L (A) would be in the range of 7 amps or so - that's just what the solenoid is drawing, not the starter motor itself. If KL50L V stays at zero, your CAS is damaged. If it goes to 12 (or whatever the resting battery voltage is), there could be a damaged wire/connector between CAS and solenoid


You can test the pedal switches by selecting E90->INPA -> Body->CAS -> F5 Status -> F1 Digital -> F2 Status Clamp contro. Press the pedal and make sure the circle changes from white to black

Ground and battery cables are easy to test. Just use a jumper cable to bypass them.

Good luck!
Amazing! thank you so much for the detailed reply. I will be testing all of these things this weekend, as soon as i have a dry day (i work outside unfortunately).

As for which issue it is, i have no crank at all. When pushing the start button i get dash lights, priming of some pump, and nothing else. So unfortunately, i have NO crank at all.

I will say, i was so impressed with the information and depth included in IstaP that im surprised its not the recommended software, but will definitely take your advice and switch to INPA for diagnostics and winkfp & ncsexpert for coding only.

I had initially started with WinKFP, however was unable to locate a few of my module ZB numbers in any SPDATEN i used (50.2, 55, 60.2). Assuming they had been replaced at some point (bought used) I had switched to ISTAP due to the glowing reviews in many forums.

Yes, I am using the emulator for K+Dcan, I had read that the newer bimmergeeks pro versions were 'safe' to use for full program so long as a voltage reg was used as the KDcan would take far longer (obviously incorrect)

As for the 'coding' vs 'programming' I do realize there is a difference, and believe one is for changing settings already present, and one is to add new options completely (or delete), however see them used interchangeably (incorrectly) and apologize if i mix them up.

You are definitely correct that i was simply guessing with T30 replacement, if 'a little knowledge is dangerous' then google university made me a monkey with a machine gun. lol

Your last option there on your list seems interesting, as one symptom i have noticed but forgot to mention is that the brake pedal is extremely 'hard', and difficult to depress.

I will start with your list, and invest in a voltage meter for testing, and update as soon as i have diagnostic info, just one clarification, if measuring voltages and such, I do so without the voltage regulator attached, correct? I assume if connected to a regulator the voltages would not read correctly, however assumptions got me where I am now lol

Once again, I truly appreciate all of the information, and you taking the time.

<edit #1>
i have read in many places that it could be an EWS sync issue due to the ISTAP upgrades? I will obviously do all the above diagnostics before attempting anything else, but does that sound like it could be a potential cause?

Last edited by l8nit3; 05-27-2022 at 09:52 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2022, 05:50 PM   #13
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
Amazing! thank you so much for the detailed reply. I will be testing all of these things this weekend, as soon as i have a dry day (i work outside unfortunately).


I will say, i was so impressed with the information and depth included in IstaP that im surprised its not the recommended software, but will definitely take your advice and switch to INPA for diagnostics and winkfp & ncsexpert for coding only.

INPA/WinKFP/NCSExpert/Too32 are FACTORY software; ISTA-D/P is dealer level software. The factory software gives you many more options and many more ways to look at what's happening in your vehicle. Downsides are 1) it's in German and 2) you have to do a little study to understand what types of data are available.

I had initially started with WinKFP, however was unable to locate a few of my module ZB numbers in any SPDATEN i used (50.2, 55, 60.2). Assuming they had been replaced at some point (bought used) I had switched to ISTAP due to the glowing reviews in many forums.

Yes, I am using the emulator for K+Dcan, I had read that the newer bimmergeeks pro versions were 'safe' to use for full program so long as a voltage reg was used as the KDcan would take far longer (obviously incorrect)

ISTA-P is being spoofed by the emulator. It's inherently dangerous. God help you if you try CCC/CIC updates without an ICOM.

FWIW, the 'safe' thing about the Bimmergeeks cable is a bug fix. Early cables (and probably still some China cable) can cause unrecoverable errors when writing program data to a few specific modules; in your car that would be EGS. In mine that would the MSS60 DME.



As for the 'coding' vs 'programming' I do realize there is a difference, and believe one is for changing settings already present, and one is to add new options completely (or delete), however see them used interchangeably (incorrectly) and apologize if i mix them up.

No, this is not it. Programming means the program code responsible for actually running the module is written over. Coding means that a special limited form of parameter data written over, usually only to certain values pre-determined by BMW. Coding does not affect the algorithms contained in the executable. WinKFP does programming; NCSExpert does coding

You are definitely correct that i was simply guessing with T30 replacement, if 'a little knowledge is dangerous' then google university made me a monkey with a machine gun. lol

Your last option there on your list seems interesting, as one symptom i have noticed but forgot to mention is that the brake pedal is extremely 'hard', and difficult to depress.

Lets leave that one for later

I will start with your list, and invest in a voltage meter for testing, and update as soon as i have diagnostic info, just one clarification, if measuring voltages and such, I do so without the voltage regulator attached, correct? I assume if connected to a regulator the voltages would not read correctly, however assumptions got me where I am now lol

Yes, absolutely. Do not connect the power supply for these tests

Once again, I truly appreciate all of the information, and you taking the time.

<edit #1>
i have read in many places that it could be an EWS sync issue due to the ISTAP upgrades? I will obviously do all the above diagnostics before attempting anything else, but does that sound like it could be a potential cause?

EWS sync is not something you can set or modify with either ISTA-P or INPA/WinKFP. In your model vehicle, a "secret key" is hard coded in the DME and the CAS at memory locations that protected and not accessible without specialized hardware and knowledge. It is very, very unlikely that you have disturbed this. In any case, an EWS mismatch does not prevent the starter motor from cranking - it only prevents the engine from firing.
Good luck
Appreciate 1
Mike K121.50
      05-27-2022, 07:32 PM   #14
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Good luck
The knowledge you posses on these vehicles is astounding! I truly hope for your sake it wasn't learned the hard way as I seem to have chosen (breaking things first)

I managed to squeeze in enough time right after work to do the diagnostics you suggested. I have checked all the voltages you pointed out, and battery seems very healthy.

When no acc mode and sitting still (key in) i have 0v on both the KL50L(A) and (V).

When acc mode is on I have 0v on the (V) and around 1v on the (A).

When trying to push start as suggested, i twice got VERY high readings of 40+ with a ! beside it. When trying a third time so i could take a picture, it read 12.8 and STARTED! Cant express the relief felt when i heard it turn over lol

I have started it about 4 more times to be sure, and attempted to do a 'once around the block' however stopped at the end of my driveway when I realized I was in limp mode, to avoid causing any additional damage.

Obviously, even though I'm ecstatic it started and ran, I know im nowhere near 'out of the woods' yet lol.

Taking your advice, I am learning to use INPA for diagnostics, and am including the code list I pulled from there AFTER the car started, there will be 2: one before clearing, and a second run after clearing codes (those that remained).

I'm not sure if I should take the 'no crank' issue as a fluke, now that it does in fact start, and begin diagnosing the limp mode issue (hoping they are one and the same). Or if I should continue looking for the hidden gremlin that caused my initial 'no crank' problem. Hoping the error codes below can shed some light as to the best course of action.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2022, 08:02 PM   #15
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
The knowledge you posses on these vehicles is astounding! I truly hope for your sake it wasn't learned the hard way as I seem to have chosen (breaking things first)

I managed to squeeze in enough time right after work to do the diagnostics you suggested. I have checked all the voltages you pointed out, and battery seems very healthy.

When no acc mode and sitting still (key in) i have 0v on both the KL50L(A) and (V).

When acc mode is on I have 0v on the (V) and around 1v on the (A).

When trying to push start as suggested, i twice got VERY high readings of 40+ with a ! beside it. When trying a third time so i could take a picture, it read 12.8 and STARTED! Cant express the relief felt when i heard it turn over lol

I have started it about 4 more times to be sure, and attempted to do a 'once around the block' however stopped at the end of my driveway when I realized I was in limp mode, to avoid causing any additional damage.

Obviously, even though I'm ecstatic it started and ran, I know im nowhere near 'out of the woods' yet lol.

Taking your advice, I am learning to use INPA for diagnostics, and am including the code list I pulled from there AFTER the car started, there will be 2: one before clearing, and a second run after clearing codes (those that remained).

I'm not sure if I should take the 'no crank' issue as a fluke, now that it does in fact start, and begin diagnosing the limp mode issue (hoping they are one and the same). Or if I should continue looking for the hidden gremlin that caused my initial 'no crank' problem. Hoping the error codes below can shed some light as to the best course of action.
I don't think the 'no crank' issue is a fluke. It's an intermittent electrical problem that will probably occur again. Intermittent electrical issues often involve corroded connectors, cables, ground straps, as discussed earlier. Diagnosis is a lot easier when the failure is consistent.

But your result does mean that CAS is likely OK. In general, they do not magically repair themselves if an internal error occurs.

I suggest you clear all codes at this point. Then let's see which ones come back - that will direct your next steps concerning the limp mode problem.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2022, 08:48 PM   #16
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
I suggest you clear all codes at this point. Then let's see which ones come back - that will direct your next steps concerning the limp mode problem.
Absolutely fair about not being a 'fluke'. Really it was more wishful thinking then anything else.

The only two codes that remain after clearing are
2A3F - VVT control circuit high - bank 1
2A77 - internal control module VVT current too high/low

Maybe my voltage regulator ran too high at some point during the ISTAP procedure?

Should I attempt to track down the cause of the initial electrical issue before being concerned with the limp mode?

I would assume corroded/shorted contacts, cables, etc could cause additional and unexpected errors, behavior, and damage, however my assumptions have not served me well up to this point. lol

Or, since it is highly likely the original issue is a cable, contact or strap as you have pointed out, is it generally 'safe' to attempt to diagnose further and try to beat this limp mode issue?

Also, as suggested, ive picked up a DVM (will have it tomorrow) for any additional voltage tracing i may need to do.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2022, 05:31 AM   #17
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Ok, the valvetronic codes are your limp mode. There is likely some power issue involving a fuse, a relay, a connector with corroded or bent pin. Although there are other explanations, I doubt very very very much this has anything to do with your power supply. I also doubt that your failure to crank and valvetronic codes are related- thats just a guess but i cannot see a way to relate them off the top of my head.

Troubleshooting this (with your new DVM) is entirely doable - schematic diagrams/connector pin outs are available in ISTA-D. However, I’m away from home and have limited internet access and only my phone to access it with. So i cant help much for a few days.

I suggest dumb googling 2a3f, 2a77. There may already be some helpful discussion threads.

Just a thought, have you recently unplugged the DME connectors as a part of your investigations? easy to bend those pins putting the connectors back. Again, just a wild guess- the righr course here is to examine voltages at various points in the valvetronic circuitry
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2022, 08:14 AM   #18
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Ok, the valvetronic codes are your limp mode. There is likely some power issue involving a fuse, a relay, a connector with corroded or bent pin. Although there are other explanations, I doubt very very very much this has anything to do with your power supply. I also doubt that your failure to crank and valvetronic codes are related- thats just a guess but i cannot see a way to relate them off the top of my head.

Troubleshooting this (with your new DVM) is entirely doable - schematic diagrams/connector pin outs are available in ISTA-D. However, I’m away from home and have limited internet access and only my phone to access it with. So i cant help much for a few days.

I suggest dumb googling 2a3f, 2a77. There may already be some helpful discussion threads.

Just a thought, have you recently unplugged the DME connectors as a part of your investigations? easy to bend those pins putting the connectors back. Again, just a wild guess- the righr course here is to examine voltages at various points in the valvetronic circuitry
You have been immensely helpful, I appreciate the time you've taken to explain all of this to a rather dense individual such as myself lol.

I will do some more research and troubleshooting , and reply with results!
Enjoy your weekend, and thank you again for all the wisdom you have brought to the thread!

<Edit>
Upon further research I've found that cable is "B+ to engine electronics"
Pictured below

<Edit #2>
I have removed my battery and absolutely see the issue (pictured below). Unfortunately its not the cable as I suspected, but the actual terminal the cable connects too has broken!

Cable part = 6938504-03

My problem, what is it it connects to on the other side of the wheel-well? And exactly how screwed am I? The cable would have been a quick 5 min fix...
Attached Images
   

Last edited by l8nit3; 05-28-2022 at 03:35 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2022, 04:08 PM   #19
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
So th epart that has broken off is 61129125036.
One of the two terminals that poke through into the battery compartment snapped off completely.

I will be going to a local wrecking yard (my work isnt open on sundays) and getting a used one tomorrow, and then hopefully be back up and running by monday!

Will update if any other codes appear (after clearing).
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2022, 05:01 PM   #20
dpaul
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
589
Rep
1,838
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l8nit3 View Post
So th epart that has broken off is 61129125036.
One of the two terminals that poke through into the battery compartment snapped off completely.

I will be going to a local wrecking yard (my work isnt open on sundays) and getting a used one tomorrow, and then hopefully be back up and running by monday!

Will update if any other codes appear (after clearing).
Well done! That's your no-start - #4 in my hypothesis list. Did you notice any water in the battery compartment?
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2022, 08:26 PM   #21
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Well done! That's your no-start - #4 in my hypothesis list. Did you notice any water in the battery compartment?
there was a small amount of dampness, however the battery overflow tube also wasn't properly connected, so any overflow would have went right into the battery compartment.

I will be cleaning it all out before putting the battery back in.

Now the million dollar question, could that also be the limp mode issue? Since the cable is specifically for engine electronics, and the error I received was about low/high VVT voltage?

I suppose either way I cant know for sure until I have replaced the broken part.

No matter the result, I truly cant thank you enough for your guidance through the issue, I was convinced I had totaled my car in my attempt to be a diligent BMW owner (updating modules in the first place), and would still be floundering about on google hopelessly.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2022, 06:11 PM   #22
l8nit3
New Member
l8nit3's Avatar
Canada
0
Rep
28
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 328XI
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I have repaired the broken power transfer terminal , whoever still am showing 2A3F and 2A77 error codes and am in limp mode. (Both related to vvt)

So, doing some dumb Google searching I have found possible causes being:
-bad 40A orange fuse for VVT in engine bay Ebox
-bad blue VVT relay , also in engine bay Ebox

I have tested the 40A fuse and believe it's good, never used a DVM, however I get a 0.01 reading on the lowest possible continuity setting.

I'm unsure how to properly test the blue relay ( pn: 61.36-6915327/01), however when doing the same as I would with a fuse I get the following:

87 + 87 : 0.00
Either 87 + 30 or 85: no change on DVM
85 + 30: 0.095

All of which I think are expect values by reading the little diagram on the box.

Are there any other thoughts or suggestions for further diagnostics before I start to think I fried something in my VVT system somewhere, and have to start learning those wiring diagrams lol
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST