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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Steering Wheel Shake when braking



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      05-05-2015, 11:07 AM   #23
Kev335is
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallgeese179 View Post
OP, I was having similar problems recently with my car. Looking around on the forum I saw that some people had difficulty with tracking down the reason their wheel was shaking under braking. The culprit was going to be either worn control arm bushings or brake pad deposit on my rotors.

Finding this thread (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588035) made me think that I was likely experiencing control arm bushing failure. I thought this was the case because the wheel shaking started towards the end of winter (I live in Pittsburgh so potholes are everywhere and I hit a few big ones). I jacked the front end up and inspected all of the bushings, only to find that none of them were damaged. Even the fluid filled lower control arm bushings (commonly known to fail) were not leaking and were in great shape.

I ended up buying slotted rotors (front and rear) from ECS tuning along with Akebono Euro Ceramic brake pads (front and rear) to try and eliminate the problem while also providing slightly upgraded braking performance. This solved the problem. As it turns out it was likely brake pad deposit on the front rotors that was causing the shaking (the attached picture shows the outline of the brake pad in the rotor). Iím 150 miles in to the new brake set up and the vibration is completely gone.

From my experience I would definitely recommend replacing the rotors and pads before attempting to replace the control arm bushing, as it is quicker and cheaper.
Thanks man! I've decided that Im just going to replace all of my rotors and pads once I start working after classes end.
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      05-23-2015, 09:25 PM   #24
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I've got this problem too. I have pads and rotors on the way (if Amazon ever gets the rotors I ordered back in stock...).

Anyway, tonight I went out to check the suspension arms and the only thing that I noted was no front/back/left/right play but that I could rotate the lower control arm around its axis (like turning a screwdriver) pretty easily. Not nearly as bad with the tension strut.

Is that normal? I know some other bushings can pivot off axis normally (ARB end links come to mind). I think I'm committed to the brake job at this point so I'll do that first anyway. If that doesn't fix it what should I go with next, control arms or tension struts?
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      05-25-2015, 11:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigYahi View Post
I've got this problem too. I have pads and rotors on the way (if Amazon ever gets the rotors I ordered back in stock...).

Anyway, tonight I went out to check the suspension arms and the only thing that I noted was no front/back/left/right play but that I could rotate the lower control arm around its axis (like turning a screwdriver) pretty easily. Not nearly as bad with the tension strut.

Is that normal? I know some other bushings can pivot off axis normally (ARB end links come to mind). I think I'm committed to the brake job at this point so I'll do that first anyway. If that doesn't fix it what should I go with next, control arms or tension struts?
Tension struts/thrust arms should be getting force on braking whereas radius rod/control arm shouldn't be.

My experience has been that so long as a ball joint joint doesn't have so much play that it can clunk, it's alright that it can pivot around easier than when brand new. And if bad, it would fail the wheel play test left/right/up/down.

Last edited by AndrewLakes; 05-26-2015 at 12:20 AM..
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      05-25-2015, 11:11 PM   #26
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This is a classic sign of failed thrust arm bushings #10 on the diagram.

If its not the thrust arm bushing then your rotors are warped. (although that shaking is a bit different)

Had this issue on my 540 and 335. New bushing solved the problem.

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      05-26-2015, 08:33 AM   #27
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I don't have any experience with failed bushings but I noticed yesterday that I can feel the shake through the brake pedal so I'm feeling like it has to be the rotors. I'm going to replace the caliper bushings too, for good measure. If I can find someone to lend me a dial indicator I might measure runout before and after because I'm a nerd.

I spent some time under the car yesterday poking about and there's really nothing visually wrong with any of the bushings or ball joints and they are definitely all tight. Probably for the better, having an XI I'm not exactly sure how to tighten some of the nuts due to the position of the outer CV boot.

The previous owner had the brakes changed about 30k miles ago with Meyle pads and rotors. I hear of people using Meyle rotors but it took me forever to even find that Meyle sold pads. They're weird because the outer has a slot in the pad face but the inner doesn't. I thought for the longest time that the shop was mixing brands inner and outer but I found a picture of them and there it was. There's a lot of meat left on both so I don't mind changing them out and maybe getting the rotors resurfaced to put on when I eventually sell this car.
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      05-26-2015, 11:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigYahi View Post
I don't have any experience with failed bushings but I noticed yesterday that I can feel the shake through the brake pedal so I'm feeling like it has to be the rotors. I'm going to replace the caliper bushings too, for good measure. If I can find someone to lend me a dial indicator I might measure runout before and after because I'm a nerd.

I spent some time under the car yesterday poking about and there's really nothing visually wrong with any of the bushings or ball joints and they are definitely all tight. Probably for the better, having an XI I'm not exactly sure how to tighten some of the nuts due to the position of the outer CV boot.

The previous owner had the brakes changed about 30k miles ago with Meyle pads and rotors. I hear of people using Meyle rotors but it took me forever to even find that Meyle sold pads. They're weird because the outer has a slot in the pad face but the inner doesn't. I thought for the longest time that the shop was mixing brands inner and outer but I found a picture of them and there it was. There's a lot of meat left on both so I don't mind changing them out and maybe getting the rotors resurfaced to put on when I eventually sell this car.
Quality pads are important, I have no clue about Meyle pads. I usually just resurface rotors too when the brake pedal starts pulsing, so I think that should work out for you.
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      05-26-2015, 10:41 PM   #29
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Clean rotors with: http://www.amazon.com/Brush-Research.../dp/B007SOW0WC , and replace the caliper bushings. Good and affordble to start with.
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      05-31-2015, 05:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev335is View Post
Thanks man! I've decided that Im just going to replace all of my rotors and pads once I start working after classes end.
It's definitely a good investment. I recently bought new wheels (Sparco Pro Corsa Black Matt) and noticed that my rusty rotor hubs were really killing the look of the car. The severe shaking under braking was the push I needed to go ahead and buy new rotors/pads.

After a little research, I realized that because I only intend on DDing my car I didn't really need high performance pads. The problem with them is the excess dust/noise that practically all high performance pads make. The rotors were different though. I wanted slotted for two reasons: shaving off any glazed over pad material and because they look cool. I didn't want cross drilled because they always crack around the holes and significantly reduce contact surface area. Oh, and the rotors needed to have painted hubs/center vents to avoid the nasty rust.

I ended up ordering form ECS Tuning, getting front and rear slotted rotors coated in GEOMET protective coating. For the pads I went with front and rear Akebono Euro Ceramic brake pads.

I just followed the TireRack recommended bed-in procedure of moderate braking for the first 500 miles. I am very satisfied with them so far. They have great initial bite (similar to OEM pads), can brake hard when I really step on them, and they are incredibly quiet. The only thing I've noticed is that I find some gray brake dust on my black wheels. Though it just collects in a pile at the bottom as they're covered in Matte Jet Seal. Overall I would highly recommend them for a great DD setup.

I also bought new brake fluid and a Schwaben European Pressure bleeder. I used OEM brake fluid as it had dry/wet boiling points that are pretty high (446/311 degrees F). Following the ECS Tuning guide, I bled the brakes in less than an hour. The brake fluid that came out seemed clean in the clear bleeder line, but looked filthy after it settled in the bottle. Glad I did the flush to be honest.
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      06-01-2015, 08:01 AM   #31
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Follow up: new rotors solved my issue. I'm glad I checked the arm bushings but they seem like they're in great shape (especially for 116k miles).
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      06-01-2015, 08:43 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigYahi View Post
Follow up: new rotors solved my issue. I'm glad I checked the arm bushings but they seem like they're in great shape (especially for 116k miles).
Good to hear. For anyone else that has this problem, try re-bedding your brakes before you buy new pads and rotors (assuming they have enough material left). Sometimes that is enough to fix uneven pad deposits on the rotors.
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      06-01-2015, 09:15 AM   #33
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Yup rebedding the brakes did it for me (the Dealer did it) last week when I had a similar issue.

BTW, last year I had vibrations when breaking and the steering wheel would shake a little, and also the car went left or right when applying the brakes which was dangerous at high speeds. It ended up being the thrust arm/rod bushings. The Dealer replaced them under warranty (29k mi on the car then) and it solved the problem. They said the bushings were very "stretched" but not broken. So it goes to show you that you don't have to have a completely damaged or cracked bushing to have an issue.

Harry
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      07-01-2015, 08:27 PM   #34
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Have been having exactly the same issue. Wheel vibration at 45-60mph, becoming much more pronounced when braking from 70-80mph. I do not feel any vibration in the brake pedal, just the steering wheel.

Got new front tires, road force balance, new thrust arms, control arms, and tie rods. That did not solve the problem. By elimination, that leads me to believe that rotors may be the cause, even though i had them replaced about 20k miles ago.
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      11-24-2015, 04:26 PM   #35
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SOLUTION

Hey guys I finally fixed this issue I was having a month or two ago. Turns out, I was changing my brakes a few weeks ago and I improperly torqued my wheels to the wrong pressure. This led to my rotors warping. I got new rotors and torqued them up to spec and haven't had any wheel shake since!
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      11-24-2015, 04:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibikot View Post
Have been having exactly the same issue. Wheel vibration at 45-60mph, becoming much more pronounced when braking from 70-80mph. I do not feel any vibration in the brake pedal, just the steering wheel.

Got new front tires, road force balance, new thrust arms, control arms, and tie rods. That did not solve the problem. By elimination, that leads me to believe that rotors may be the cause, even though i had them replaced about 20k miles ago.
Make sure you torqued your lugs up to spec, thats what ended up causing my wheel shake from warped rotors.
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      11-25-2015, 09:39 AM   #37
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I bought my car with 34,000 miles on it. When I bought it, I immediately felt the brake pulsation through the steering wheel upon high speed braking. The dealer replaced the front rotors and pads under warranty, and the problem was solved until about 55,000 miles. The vibration returned, so I just recently took my car with about 60,000 miles on it to a Midas muffler and brake store to have them cut the rotors. They did, and the brake pulsation is pretty much gone (although not entirely.) I tried to rebed the brakes before having the rotors resurfaced and it did not help one bit. I rebedded the old pads on the newly resurfaced rotors and braking seems just as good as prior to the rotors being resurfaced.

I don't think the rotors are warped; I do believe it's pad deposit. Resurfacing/cutting the rotors simply cleaned up the rotors with a fresh, new even surface.

I primarily went this route because I'm not sure how much longer I'm keeping the car. If I was dead set on keeping the car for a long period of time, I would probably have bought new rotors and pads. Seems odd that this car has brake vibration at such short mileage intervals. It's worse than my old Honda Pilots, which constantly had brake judder/steering wheel vibrations when braking! Must be something with the pad material leaving residue on the rotors, or maybe the calipers aren't sliding correctly. The funny thing is I've had a good number of cars that never had this issue, including my 2001 Ford Mustang GT, 2014 Ford Explorer Sport, 2008 Pontiac G8 GT and 1994 Ford Probe GT.
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      11-26-2015, 11:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev335is View Post
Make sure you torqued your lugs up to spec, thats what ended up causing my wheel shake from warped rotors.
What do you guys torque the lug nuts to? ~80ft.lbs?

I had a similar problem with my '97 Civic back in the late 90's. Got new wheels mounted at Firestone and a couple of weeks later (or 1K mi.) my rotors started getting warped and had vibrations in the steering wheel. I went to check the torque on the lug nuts and I couldn't get the lugs loose! They were easily 120ft.lbs from their air gun. I took it back to them and they got them loose and I used my torque wrench (all Hondas are 80 ft.lbs) to torque them while on the ground, but it was too late. The damage was done. I confronted them about it and they said they torque all the lugs regardless of make & model to at least 110ft.lbs(!!) because they don't want anyone's wheel coming off the car!

Even if the owner's manual states a big range for the lug nuts like 78 to 105 (my 2015 Mazda 3S GT states exactly that), always go with the low number or just slightly above, never with the high#. My Mazda Dealer says they torque the wheels to 102 ft.lbs. I am glad I asked them when I bought the car. I came home read the manual first, then struggled to get the lugs loose, and re-torqued them to 80. Now I am reading on the Mazda forums about people having premature brake and warped rotor issues with low mileage

This is why I have serious trust issues with every shop I go to now, especially the Dealerships. Checking the torque on the lug nuts is second nature to me now when I get back from a shop.

Harry
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      04-05-2022, 08:50 PM   #39
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Unhappy E92 shakes when coming to a stop

so my break light turned on I need to do my rear breaks I just got new rims on my car for the rear and I took it for a test drive and when I come to a stop sing my car temps to shake and kinda feel like it something is stuck but before It was working just fine I have no clue if it has to do with an axel or if I should do my rear brakes would fix it or if its something worse I don't any codes also I got my car aligned not too long ago and the tires seem to scream at me when I take tight corners they told me they couldn't fix the caster because its not adjustable but right now is sitting at *left front, -0.7 camber 8.3 caster .44 toe and right is at -.2 camber 6.6 caster -.32 toe
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      05-19-2022, 10:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayboiBert View Post
so my break light turned on I need to do my rear breaks I just got new rims on my car for the rear and I took it for a test drive and when I come to a stop sing my car temps to shake and kinda feel like it something is stuck but before It was working just fine I have no clue if it has to do with an axel or if I should do my rear brakes would fix it or if its something worse I don't any codes also I got my car aligned not too long ago and the tires seem to scream at me when I take tight corners they told me they couldn't fix the caster because its not adjustable but right now is sitting at *left front, -0.7 camber 8.3 caster .44 toe and right is at -.2 camber 6.6 caster -.32 toe
It's your toes. Toed-in too much. Bet your front outer edge of tires worn out. Check your rears too.
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