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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Match speaker/amp/subbox upgrade



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      05-20-2022, 02:48 AM   #1
Jelle458
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Match speaker/amp/subbox upgrade

So I just wanted to share my experience for people considering the same.

First my upgrade of the speakers, I am quoting a post from a different thread here, which gives my impressions of the initial speaker upgrade, still driving them from the headunit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelle458 View Post
First, thank you ctuna, however my worries were for nothing as the kit already had this in mind, I'll explain, but first, I was able to install all speakers today within all the moving mess I have, just sold my house and moving into a temporary apartment so time is limited, which is also why it took me 3 days to reply.

Anyway, first a very short video where you can here the issues of the sound system:
View post on imgur.com


It is not VERY easy to hear, but I think most people can hear how the speakers suddenly stop playing then starts playing multiple times. It was this issue I wanted to fix initially, and while I am at it, might as well replace the whole thing with quality anyways.



I started from the rear and moved up, so this was the first replacement. It was extremely easy to do, and the kit came with a small wire with a capacitor, I used that wire, the connectors were all plug and play.
I faded the music only to the rear and replaced only one speaker. The difference was not HUGE, but that build-in tweeter could be heard, and quality definitely went up. After replacing both the difference was there, but I still couldn't turn up the volume without having the problem in the video, so it wasn't these speakers creating that problem.



Next up was the subs. Match didn't clearly indicate which way they should go. Apparently the original ones are mounted face down (Other way around than in picture), so they shoot the music... into the road?
Anyway they didn't clearly indicate it so it took some trial and error but in the end I found out that Match wanted to turn the subs around.
There is a mention of some spacers in the manual, spacers to lift the speaker grill a little higher so the subs don't hit the grill. However the grill is mounted with 6 screws under each seat, and they put in a total of 8 spacers with screws. I mounted the grills back without spacers and they don't hit it, maybe it is for another model but it isn't clearly indicated.

So the sub upgrade gave it a lot more grunt. Again I tried with old on the passenger side and new on the driver side, there was a clear difference and I now feel the kick way harder. They don't fall off a cliff when being turned up in volume like the original, hard to explain but I think most audio people will understand.



Here are the door panels I got from Schmiedmann. They are original with original part numbers. The tweeters fit in just fine as factory fit, and the replacement was a little bit hard but I managed it in the end. Hardest part is the window corner top right, and I didn't find any "quick way" of doing it, I had to pry a little bit, not too hard though so nothing broke.



New speaker with tweeter for the front doors, with the original BMW one too. This is where I shouldn't have worried at all. That filter box has an in wire that connects to the car, plug and play, then there is a tweeter out and a midrange speaker out. Just need to set the jumper so it knows it's powered by car radio not by amplifier.



Here is how it's connected. The box fit inside the door with no issues. I taped it with double sided tape and I can't hear it rattling.

This time I replaced the passenger side first, and wanted to listen to the difference, and now my problems with the audio cutting out was completely gone, so the volume can finally go higher without issues.

The biggest difference here is the tweeter, you hear those high sounds soooooo much better. It honestly made a world of difference when it comes to quality. Volume wise, because of my problem, it also moved by a lot. If the system worked perfectly fine to begin with, I don't think I would have gained a whole lot of volume.



One shot of the tweeter mounted. Not sure why I took it but since I have it might as well post it.


So overall thoughts...... As ctuna wrote, the needle didn't move much. I don't think a fully working system would gain a whole lot more in terms of volume.
However if I were to recommend something it is the front door tweeter upgrade. The difference it made in the front was HUGE when it comes to quality. The song in the video I posted became a whole lot clearer with that tweeter, with the original system it was like those high tunes disappeared, now they don't.

As for subs, sure if someone needs a little more kick, these are actually pretty great, but once you start replacing subs you should really get an amp. For me I can hear a difference, a harder kick and they follow at higher volume where the old ones start to sound horrible these still sound great, but I wouldn't say the improvement is more than 10%.

As for the rear ones. I got the ones with build in tweeter so I can't say for those who have the discrete tweeter. The difference is there for sure, but when you sit in the front you don't notice it so much, so it is mostly for passengers, which I rarely have. These rear speakers I think is doing nothing at all for me, as I only hear the doors and subs. Of course throw in an amp and things could be different.

But I got my sound system fixed by replacing everything with quality speakers, next up is an amp but I was just sooooo tired of this problem where the audio cuts out. I'd say I could only go to 50% volume, now I can go to 100%.
So basically pretty happy with just the speaker upgrade.

Now the Match PP 62DSP enters. It comes with all cables needed to install the amp, so wiring needed to be done, it is basically plug & play, just need to figure out where to mount the amp.
I started with assembly on the passenger seat, just to hear the difference.
I also bought the bluetooth optional upgrade, to get bluetooth in my car.

Here starts the problem. The amp promises 720W but the fuse for the input is 20A, with 12V my calculations say 240W, so that 720W has to be peak.
I also got the Match PP7E-D for the trunk. This was also connected on the passenger seat before installation.

With the amp connected, and without the sub connected I did feel like I got some more bass on the lower volume. Raising the volume however. Whew that sounds BAD suddenly. The subs under the seat roll over completely, and in total I probably gained something like 5% extra volume, with the trade off of the subs sounding horrible.
Add that every 10 second the music sets out for about 1 second before coming back, and then playing pretty bad again.
Fair enough, the manual said to download the appropriate software for the car and upload it to the amp. I did that, and nothing changed at all. Same different day...
Disconnecting everything and driving it all from the headunit and suddenly everything is better. I lose some bass a low volume, I'd like to have what the amp gives me there, but at higher volume, the bass sound exactly how they should, and the trebbles are sounding good too, with almost the same volume.

Adding the sub into the mix then, with the amp.
Here you get more bass, but of course because it was on my passenger seat. This sub however, also rolls over with the subs under the seat, and with the sub attached the cutting of audio doesn't change at all, again same different day...

So it seems like it isn't a power issue when the amp sets out, but the clip LED does not light up. In the manual it says this LED with light up if the input is overloaded.

Turning the input sensitivity did almost nothing at all, I do hear a small volume difference, but audio still cuts at the same volume, this knob does nothing for that, and it does the same with or without the extra sub, so it seems to me like the amp just can't do it, and I feel like I gained nothing here, but paid a substantial amount of money.

The bluetooth however is a nice addition. The radio keeps playing the CD but once there is any input on the bluetooth this is cut off, and you control the volume on the phone.
Here the speakers sound better, just playing from spotify, but it still isn't great. I figured an audio CD might not be the best to play good audio from, but spotify didn't change much to be honest. I lost bass with bluetooth though, because the headunit has the bass turned up a little, but the volume knob and any settings on the radio headunit is bypassed.

I have packed down the amp and sub, and awaiting return as I am more than just disappointed in this. The speaker upgrade is an upgrade, but this expensive amp/sub upgrade just isn't worth it at all.

The plan is to use this money on a hi-lo converter, then throw in an amp in the rear, add a bigger 10" or 12" sub, depending on space, and run 2 extra wires from that amp to the subs under the seat, so I drive all bass from an amp, and the other speakers from the headunit, as the headunit clearly does the job pretty well already.

So I cannot recommend the amp and sub upgrade, at least not for this car. Still not sure why it cuts out, but now it's kinda moot. The solution I want now seems to cost about half, but should give me what I want.
It is very appealing just to throw everything into the original wiring, and I'd like to pay that extra money for that, if it worked as advertised, but really it does not.

Sorry for the small rant, just really disappointed in this, and wanted to share for others considering the same.
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      05-20-2022, 01:52 PM   #2
ctuna
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It's unclear how the parallel wiring between the doors and floors are
separated with the kit. This is something that is necessary when upgrading
to a 6 channel amp in a base system.
By subs I guess you mean the floors .
The under seats in base system are utter crap.
I would have had a talk with Audiotech Fisther.
Also did you attempt to adjust any of the amp parameters if you
had it installed correctly.

Was the plug and play cable for a Base system or for a Hi Fi system.
early model cars had the parallel split made in the door sills and not at
the underseat connector. Most kits have no way around this but should
tell you how it's done.

The other thing is the 62dsp is not that much of a bump in wattage per channel
still it should be a lot better than stock.

Last edited by ctuna; 05-20-2022 at 01:58 PM..
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      05-23-2022, 02:01 AM   #3
Jelle458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
It's unclear how the parallel wiring between the doors and floors are
separated with the kit. This is something that is necessary when upgrading
to a 6 channel amp in a base system.
I honestly don't know how it's wired, but they assured me the amp and sub was good to go with their plug & play system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
By subs I guess you mean the floors .
The under seats in base system are utter crap.
Yes "subs" refer to underseat subwoofers, but the subbox wasn't actually good either.
I agree that the subs under the seats are crap, but after upgrading to Match subs they sound pretty decent, just expected more punch with the amp connected, but I got the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
I would have had a talk with Audiotech Fisther.
Also did you attempt to adjust any of the amp parameters if you
had it installed correctly.
I used a retail store to get the speakers, amp and subbox, so I simply returned for a full refund. I am not sure what Audiotech Fisher would have been able to do. I updated the software to fit my car as said in manual, but nothing changed here.
I did mess with "input sensitivity". I guess that is what's normally referred to as input gain. It was turned all the way down as it came, turning it up increased volume by very little, no other effect. The higher volume from doing this at the top end got the speakers to sound absolutely horrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Was the plug and play cable for a Base system or for a Hi Fi system.
early model cars had the parallel split made in the door sills and not at
the underseat connector. Most kits have no way around this but should
tell you how it's done.
I gave the retailer the VIN of my car, they told me to get this. It is an EU model from 2005, so I guess this could be an earlier model, not sure.
The cable that came with the amp plugged right in, it didn't seem to waste any wires inside the connector.
From what I can tell there is a split before the door, where one wire runs to the sub under the seat, and the other to the speaker in the door, but that's just from looking at diagrams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
The other thing is the 62dsp is not that much of a bump in wattage per channel
still it should be a lot better than stock.
It said 720W on the box, but the input wire had a 20A fuse, so I guess that 720W is peak, but the amp has almost no capacitors inside it, it looks very "bare minimum" on the inside. Also the fact that adding the big sub for the trunk didn't change the behavior just tells me the amp is the problem here.
Maybe it was a monday model I don't know, but for sure it didn't satisfy me, and changed the whole system for the worse in my opinion.

It was very appealing with the plug & play stuff, but I'll be looking at doing it custom now. Instead of 2x6.5" sub in the trunk I am looking at 2x12" with a big amp in the back, should give me what I'm looking for, I hope.

Back when I was a teenager all my friends had crap cars with insane audio, it's what most people would do, but I never did that, and I still think it's something you have to do at least once, so now is my turn, before she starts wanting kids at home.
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      05-23-2022, 03:26 AM   #4
ctuna
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BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/
http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1169133185
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673


Inputting your Vin at mdecoder.com will give you the options you have .
The stuff in the 6 hundred range is the entertainment and stereo system.
The under seats should be upgraded to 8 inch speakers and have there own amp channels
to sound right going from 4 inch to subs in trunk will give you no midrange. Looking at the total amp
power is meaningless for ever thing but a single sub. You should be looking at watts per channel
output at a given distortion level and at a given impedance.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/e...n-752.1275694/
base system wiring pre/post 3/09
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_
Base System Guide
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...5&d=1493273253

Last edited by ctuna; 05-23-2022 at 03:33 AM..
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      05-23-2022, 03:56 AM   #5
Jelle458
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Thank you for these, you posted them before and I looked at them earlier. I determined my stereo to be the base system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
Inputting your Vin at mdecoder.com will give you the options you have .
The stuff in the 6 hundred range is the entertainment and stereo system.
The under seats should be upgraded to 8 inch speakers and have there own amp channels
to sound right going from 4 inch to subs in trunk will give you no midrange. Looking at the total amp
power is meaningless for ever thing but a single sub. You should be looking at watts per channel
output at a given distortion level and at a given impedance.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/e...n-752.1275694/
base system wiring pre/post 3/09
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_
Base System Guide
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...5&d=1493273253
Checking mdedecoder gives me nothing. I copy it here in a quote, not sure how it will turn out in the actual post:

Quote:
Vehicle information
Type

Value
VIN XXXXXX
Prod. Date 2004-12-22
Service History !! CHECK HISTORY !!
Type 330i
Series E90 (3 Series)
Body Type Sedan
Steering Left Hand Drive
Engine N52
Displacement 0
Power 0kw / 0hp
Drive rwd
Transmission Manual
Colour sparkling-graphit metallic
Upholstery Cloth "Fluid" or "Linea"/anthracite
Check mileage http://www.auto-records.com

Comfort and interior equipment
S470 Isofix-System
S493 Storage compartment package
S494 Seat heating driver/passenger
S497 Centre armrest, rear
S4AG Interior trim finishers Titanium matt

Driver assistance and lightning
S502 Headlight cleaning system
S520 Fog lights
S521 Rain sensor
S522 Xenon Light
S524 Adaptive Headlights
S548 Kilometre speedo

Wheels and drive
S249 Multifunction f steering wheel
S255 Sports leather steering wheel
S2CY BMW light alloy wheel, spider spoke 158

Environment and safety
S321 Exterior parts in vehicle colour
S322 Comfort access
S842 Cold-climate version
S851 Language version German
S863 Dealer List Europe
S888 On-board literature, Danish
S896 Daytime driving lights
S8SP Control unit COP

Other equipment
S902 General special inspection
S9AA Outer skin protection
SB070 Battery 70 Ah, plant

Available Upgrades
- E90 BLACK GRILL
- E90 ANDROID MULTIMEDIA PLAYER
- Vgate iCar Pro OBD for Bimmercode
- Highest quality Bluetooth 5.0 Audio Receiver with AptX HD support
Basically no information on the stereo.

I believe the match speakers are 6", and they fit very snug, not sure if there's even room for 8".
But since I already upgraded I'd hate to replace them again, then I'd rather run them on an amp together with a big sub in the back.

As far as I understand I need to tap into the front left and right channels using hi-lo converter, then take the output to an amp. Various kits for this are available, so I think that should be the way to go.

I just expected way more for the price I paid for this match system, but going full custom should allow me to do what I want. I also want to open AUX in the radio, and get bluetooth that way. I know someone who should be able to do that.
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      05-23-2022, 12:17 PM   #6
ctuna
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Surprized there is nothing in the 6xx range which is where the
Radio , Entertainment options are in the US .
Must be a Euro thing.
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