E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > My First Track Day, E92 335i w/Sport Pckg



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-23-2021, 11:24 AM   #1
Bush Pilot
Enlisted Member
United_States
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 08 BMW 335i Coupe, 04 BMW 325i
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tucson Arizona

iTrader: (0)

My First Track Day, E92 335i w/Sport Pckg

I showed up at the Arroyo Seco Raceway in New Mexico for the last race in a series of time attack events. I got to race around the track for $60 with the opportunity to run as many laps as I wanted to do. At this track the small light cars such as supercharged, stripped Civics and Miatas were king and ran faster lap times than a Viper and Mustang GT350. So my E92 335i was considered a big, heavy car at this event. I had a great time and made myself car sick during the first session. None of the cars were able to pass me in straights because the 335i pulls pretty hard and if I didn't need to let someone by, I could get up to 110 mph. In the corners though I just didn't have the skill and maybe the car to be able to keep up with the lighter cars. What was really slowing me down was the open differential and traction control. I kept traction control on and whenever the inside wheel would want to spin the traction control would cut the power back and stop all the fun. I didn't want to go off the track so I kept the Granny Control on. Also, I was running Michelin All Season tires.

I've got a Wavetrac Limited Slip Diff and plan to install it. From what I can tell, for track purposes, the addition of a limited slip diff should be the first mod done on a 335i.
Appreciate 0
      12-25-2021, 08:06 AM   #2
Biginboca
Colonel
Biginboca's Avatar
3453
Rep
2,677
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 328i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boynton Beach, FL... USA

iTrader: (3)

Camber and 200tw tires will go a long way towards helping you in the turns. -3.5 front and -2.5 rear seems to be minimum camber for this platform to really do well. With these settings and PS4s tires I’m able to hold my ground in turns against track Miata’s and Lotus in my 3100lb e92.

Look into some camber plates would be my recommendation.
Appreciate 0
      12-25-2021, 09:05 PM   #3
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Camber plates.
But, adding grip means you are increasing G load means you might face oil starvation.
Also, it is winter. In summer in NM, you might consider oil cooler with bigger capacity. Do you have standard radiator type oil cooler or box heat exchanger?
If you don't want to address oil starvation issues like adding accusump, don't go 200wt tires or such aggressive camber. It will make you slower, but engine will be safer.
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2021, 10:15 AM   #4
Bush Pilot
Enlisted Member
United_States
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 08 BMW 335i Coupe, 04 BMW 325i
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tucson Arizona

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Camber and 200tw tires will go a long way towards helping you in the turns. -3.5 front and -2.5 rear seems to be minimum camber for this platform to really do well. With these settings and PS4s tires Iím able to hold my ground in turns against track Miataís and Lotus in my 3100lb e92.

Look into some camber plates would be my recommendation.
Sounds like good advice and thank you. Arenít our cars closer 3500 lbs. stock? Is yours stripped?
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2021, 10:18 AM   #5
Bush Pilot
Enlisted Member
United_States
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 08 BMW 335i Coupe, 04 BMW 325i
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tucson Arizona

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Camber plates.
But, adding grip means you are increasing G load means you might face oil starvation.
Also, it is winter. In summer in NM, you might consider oil cooler with bigger capacity. Do you have standard radiator type oil cooler or box heat exchanger?
If you don't want to address oil starvation issues like adding accusump, don't go 200wt tires or such aggressive camber. It will make you slower, but engine will be safer.
Iím running the OEM radiator and oil cooler. Iím surprised about the oil starvation due to g forces. Thatís interesting. Thanks for the advice.
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2021, 11:04 AM   #6
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Camber plates.
But, adding grip means you are increasing G load means you might face oil starvation.
Also, it is winter. In summer in NM, you might consider oil cooler with bigger capacity. Do you have standard radiator type oil cooler or box heat exchanger?
If you don't want to address oil starvation issues like adding accusump, don't go 200wt tires or such aggressive camber. It will make you slower, but engine will be safer.
I’m running the OEM radiator and oil cooler. I’m surprised about the oil starvation due to g forces. That’s interesting. Thanks for the advice.
Research N54/55 oil starvation. Fill it with bit more oil. Upgrade your oil cooler to bigger capacity.
Appreciate 0
      12-27-2021, 10:31 AM   #7
Bush Pilot
Enlisted Member
United_States
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 08 BMW 335i Coupe, 04 BMW 325i
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tucson Arizona

iTrader: (0)

Iím starting to think that too many mods are required for this car to be truly track ready. Iím probably better off with something else for the track. May a Miata or BRZ.
Appreciate 0
      12-27-2021, 04:57 PM   #8
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
I’m starting to think that too many mods are required for this car to be truly track ready. I’m probably better off with something else for the track. May a Miata or BRZ.
Get 128.
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2021, 06:32 AM   #9
Biginboca
Colonel
Biginboca's Avatar
3453
Rep
2,677
Posts

Drives: 2009 E92 328i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boynton Beach, FL... USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
Sounds like good advice and thank you. Arenít our cars closer 3500 lbs. stock? Is yours stripped?
My car has had a lot of weight reduction mods to get around 300lbs off, but itís not a stripped track car itís a daily driver. I know a few guys with stripped cars around 2900lbs.

I agree a Miata or BRZ is a better starting point for a track car. Will be less expensive to build and operate. Also N/A cars seem to handle cooling much better. Your 335 will be much more enjoyable on the street than either of those cars though
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2021, 11:26 AM   #10
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Take into consideration that tracking vehicle, regarding which one, requires modifications, upgrades etc.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2021, 07:15 AM   #11
Bush Pilot
Enlisted Member
United_States
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 08 BMW 335i Coupe, 04 BMW 325i
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tucson Arizona

iTrader: (0)

I have to admit that Iím disappointed. I incorrectly assumed all BMWs could be driven as hard as a person wanted to around a track and they wouldnít overheat or be starved for oil.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2021, 09:14 AM   #12
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
I have to admit that I’m disappointed. I incorrectly assumed all BMWs could be driven as hard as a person wanted to around a track and they wouldn’t overheat or be starved for oil.
Wait until you try some other cars.
Cars are not built to be driven on track. It is too costly to build them that way, it requires different parts, different focus.
BMW N55 engine is inline six engine. It is long, it is hard to cool of bcs. design etc. If they increased oil capacity further it would influence mpg, if they added one more pick up tube it would be costly and people would complain about price.
It doesn't matter what car you get, short of very few, you will have to invest money in modifications.
99% of track time is getting car ready, 1% is driving it. If you think you gonna sit in the car and just blast down the track, save yourself money and find another hobby.
Appreciate 2
Biginboca3453.00
bbnks21109.00
      12-29-2021, 09:59 AM   #13
Bush Pilot
Enlisted Member
United_States
9
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: 08 BMW 335i Coupe, 04 BMW 325i
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Tucson Arizona

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Wait until you try some other cars.
Cars are not built to be driven on track. It is too costly to build them that way, it requires different parts, different focus.
BMW N55 engine is inline six engine. It is long, it is hard to cool of bcs. design etc. If they increased oil capacity further it would influence mpg, if they added one more pick up tube it would be costly and people would complain about price.
It doesn't matter what car you get, short of very few, you will have to invest money in modifications.
99% of track time is getting car ready, 1% is driving it. If you think you gonna sit in the car and just blast down the track, save yourself money and find another hobby.
Maybe the message from BMW is, ďGet an M if you plan to drive on the trackĒ.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2021, 11:00 AM   #14
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Wait until you try some other cars.
Cars are not built to be driven on track. It is too costly to build them that way, it requires different parts, different focus.
BMW N55 engine is inline six engine. It is long, it is hard to cool of bcs. design etc. If they increased oil capacity further it would influence mpg, if they added one more pick up tube it would be costly and people would complain about price.
It doesn't matter what car you get, short of very few, you will have to invest money in modifications.
99% of track time is getting car ready, 1% is driving it. If you think you gonna sit in the car and just blast down the track, save yourself money and find another hobby.
Maybe the message from BMW is, “Get an M if you plan to drive on the track”.
True. But really tracking requires a lot of involvement. If you want just to have fun, go 128 or 328. Naturally aspirated, less heat, less stuff to break. Slap oil cooler from 335 and you will never have heat issues.
I track my 328 with child seats in it. I am definitely one of the slowest, but I addressed most important issues to keep me safe on the track.
Remember, you are not getting paid to do this!
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2022, 10:36 PM   #15
feuer
Major General
feuer's Avatar
United_States
4067
Rep
8,902
Posts

Drives: wife crazy!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
I have to admit that Iím disappointed. I incorrectly assumed all BMWs could be driven as hard as a person wanted to around a track and they wouldnít overheat or be starved for oil.
Thatís the ultimate driving machine lol
Appreciate 0
      01-15-2022, 10:37 PM   #16
feuer
Major General
feuer's Avatar
United_States
4067
Rep
8,902
Posts

Drives: wife crazy!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
True. But really tracking requires a lot of involvement. If you want just to have fun, go 128 or 328. Naturally aspirated, less heat, less stuff to break. Slap oil cooler from 335 and you will never have heat issues.
I track my 328 with child seats in it. I am definitely one of the slowest, but I addressed most important issues to keep me safe on the track.
Remember, you are not getting paid to do this!
Who let you on track with child seat?
Appreciate 1
      01-16-2022, 06:50 AM   #17
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
True. But really tracking requires a lot of involvement. If you want just to have fun, go 128 or 328. Naturally aspirated, less heat, less stuff to break. Slap oil cooler from 335 and you will never have heat issues.
I track my 328 with child seats in it. I am definitely one of the slowest, but I addressed most important issues to keep me safe on the track.
Remember, you are not getting paid to do this!
Who let you on track with child seat?
What seats has to do with track?
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2022, 10:43 AM   #18
feuer
Major General
feuer's Avatar
United_States
4067
Rep
8,902
Posts

Drives: wife crazy!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
What seats has to do with track?
Child seats or anything inside the car aren’t allowed. Most will make remove the floor mats too. So you either make false statement or track day organizers don’t care at all.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2022, 06:53 PM   #19
Brian86
First Lieutenant
Brian86's Avatar
291
Rep
395
Posts

Drives: e36 M3, e91 325xi, N50 Xterra
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

Lighten up a little.

They are track days, not the 24h of LeMans. Child seats are securely fastened into the car. They aren't going anywhere.

There are still a few people... even those running track day clubs... that have retained a sense of harmless humor.
__________________
Sometimes a bolt is just a bolt.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2022, 07:30 PM   #20
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
What seats has to do with track?
Child seats or anything inside the car aren't allowed. Most will make remove the floor mats too. So you either make false statement or track day organizers don't care at all.
Anything inside the car that is NOT secured.
Child seats are secured as that is kind of point of having them, among other things. I drop kids to daycare and school and go track.
There are many tracks that are like that. Not everyone has time to take their specially built vehicle to the track.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2022, 07:33 PM   #21
edycol
Major
842
Rep
1,041
Posts

Drives: 2011 328i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian86 View Post
Lighten up a little.

They are track days, not the 24h of LeMans. Child seats are securely fastened into the car. They aren't going anywhere.

There are still a few people... even those running track day clubs... that have retained a sense of harmless humor.
I had a guy telling me to remove child seats as I will be faster
I mean if I wanted to be fastest I would definitely not drive 328 and especially not xDrive.
Appreciate 0
      02-03-2022, 07:32 AM   #22
bbnks2
Colonel
1109
Rep
2,188
Posts

Drives: 135i N55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush Pilot View Post
Maybe the message from BMW is, “Get an M if you plan to drive on the track”.
Yes it's true the M cars are a significantly better starting point for a track car. They get upgraded oiling systems, better suspension components, superior geometry, better tire fitment, better cooling, better brakes, etc.

With that being said, I've converted my car completely to an M3 less the engine and it only gets more expensive. $250 rotors... $350 per tire... a smaller slower car is just cheaper to run. Miata's will be slower but consume tires slower and the tires are so small you can buy 3 sets for the same price a set costs for an M3.

It is also true that cars that are really built for some track in mind are expensive. You need to look at a z06 vette or a porsche or something. BRZ's have oil starvation issues and blow up all the time (they can be very fast on track though just behind the pace of the M235iR race car in world challenge). Even base model Chevy cars with lower end LS engines have no baffle or anything in the oil pan. Look at any car that comes from the factory with a dry sump (the real solution to oil starvation on track) and you'll be spending 60k+ minimum. Lotus is a bit cheaper track toy but even that comes with an accusump and not a true dry sump and only on certain packages...

So yeah, no matter what you start with it still usually always means spending money on mods to make it track worthy. It all depends on what your goal is. You can have plenty of fun on track with a lightly modded 328i. But consider that a spec e46 is the next best (a bit faster) budget race car build vs spec Miata and an entry level spec e46 build will run you about 30k in mods on that $3500 20 year old car. Also consider that BMW sells a factory race car... the M235iR and now the M240evo... they need to charge 100k to cover costs on those builds and they are nothing special. Gutted and caged 2 series cars with basic race equipment. Bimmerworld was selling some of their old 328i race cars and they were going for 30k+ I believe and that's second hand. I think bimmerworld said they spent something like 200k+ to build those 328i's lol (that might include R&D costs or something). Seriously consider checking local race car buy/sell groups for something someone else has built. you'll save a TON of money. If you just love modding and working on cars and stuff then yeah build something you like over time and don't regret it. Just have a clear goal in mind for the car.

Last edited by bbnks2; 02-03-2022 at 07:40 AM..
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:04 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST