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      09-02-2016, 09:06 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by feuer View Post
wow you really love your n55! Anyhow, still failed to provide explanation why bmw engineers optioned for additional coolant not oil radiator in the ppk and faster fan which includes your praised n55 as well which has this supposedly amazing features allowing supperior oil flow and oil cooling compared to n54 or n52. Perhaps because you are correct? Oil cooling was exellent thus no need for addtional oil cooler. Yes? If this is true then you conradict yourself advocaing that biger, better oil cooler is indeed needed for the n55. Is oxymoron no? I have already given you the chronology of "fixes" bmw offered. No oil cooler > oil cooler > oil cooler + additinal coolant radiator. Never engine to coolant heat exchanger on these chassis, e8x and e9x. I'm not saying that bmw in particular knew what they are doing but can tell you that pretty much all vendors sure did not. They wanted to sell and for a while they could only sell you oil radiator. Additionally, untill recently many linked reduced power at track solely due to high coolant-oil temperatures, most threads created had no data support, and how we know it could be also due to calculated high temperature in brake system with option be coded out. Coolant will always be primarily sourse of engine cooling even on engines that are stationary, like generators, and probably we won't ever see one without it. Oil cooler on the other hand, well you know...
Nothing you wrote makes any sense. You're literally blindly typing and still haven't read the 100 page pdf I've posted as a reference. You're questioning what I'm saying when I've already provided the source for you to read and interpret for yourself as well as data. Yet you still want to argue fact with opinion...

You said it yourself that a lot of the people who assumed their coolant temps were an issue couldnt actually provide any evidence of such. Most of them indeed were seeing reduced power due to brake temps and engine oil temps.

There are benefits of ppk for coolant temps. I saw that for myself first hand by running the heater.. What does that have to do with oil temps continuing to rise? My point is that you still need to improve your oil cooling, via the oil cooler, to keep engine oil temps in check... as evidenced by the above discussion. Youre precious ppk 800watt fan does nothing over 20mph... do you not realize that? It helps for those with increased power levels who daily drive their cars in traffic. It's already been explained if you had understood anything that's been said.

Please explain to me why I was able to lower engine coolant temps 30f using the heater core yet engine oil temps still rose every time I rev'd the engine out to 6k as I climbed hills... I provided data. Now you provide some contradicting data instead of conjecture. If you can do that then I will absolutely agree with you.

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      09-02-2016, 09:13 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by bNks334
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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
It is easier to shed heat with water based coolant than oil... Basic physics...

End of the discussion. Lol
You're right that coolant sheds heat better than oil. There is no argument there. However, you can't just apply that old notion to every platform blindly. Every shred of evidence suggests otherwise for the N55. Post some data and I'll believe it when I see it.
What data do you want? Coolant triggers limp mode before oil does? You can just do a simple search yourself and see how many reports seeing limp mode before oil temp hits 300F...

Oh, btw What makes N52/54/55 so different from any other water cooled engines??? Please enlighten me...

I know radiator mods help more than oil cooler from my own experience... I never go over 270F with just a relatively small single core Dinan oil cooler on my FBO 6AT. And I never do any sort of cool down laps until end of each 20-30 mins sessions at all the track events I have done. Never hit limp mode once aside from the one time that my water pump was dying.

These things aren't rocket science. If you can't figure out why the coolant system upgrades are just as important as oil cooler, well, I am not going waste my time making this thread any longer. People like you who argues without any good understanding of facts around them is why stupid threads like this exist...
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      09-02-2016, 09:33 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
Nothing you wrote makes any sense. Period. You're literally blindly typing and still haven't read the 100 page pdf I've posted as a reference of where I'm getting my information. You're questioning what I'm saying when I've already provided the source for you to read and interpret for yourself. Yet you still want to argue fact with opinion...

You said it yourself that a lot of the people who assumed their coolant temps were an issue could actually provide any evidence of such. Most of them indeed were seeing reduced power due to brake temps and engine oil temps.

There are benefits of ppk for coolant temps. I saw that for myself first hand by running the heater.. What does that have to do with oil temps continuing to rise? My point is that you still need to improve your oil cooling, via the oil cooler, to keep engine oil temps in check... as evidenced by the above discussion.
Well, you know what, you can continue reading those damn PDF's ...and move onto other literature, like physics and fluid viscosity, thermal energy and heat transfer in particular. No need to bother replying to me, besides you will be busy
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      09-02-2016, 09:37 AM   #48
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What data do you want? Coolant triggers limp mode before oil does? You can just do a simple search yourself and see how many reports seeing limp mode before oil temp hits 300F...

Oh, btw What makes N52/54/55 so different from any other water cooled engines??? Please enlighten me...

I know radiator mods help more than oil cooler from my own experience... I never go over 270F with just a relatively small single core Dinan oil cooler on my FBO 6AT. And I never do any sort of cool down laps until end of each 20-30 mins sessions at all the track events I have done. Never hit limp mode once aside from the one time that my water pump was dying.

These things aren't rocket science. If you can't figure out why the coolant system upgrades are just as important as oil cooler, well, I am not going waste my time making this thread any longer. People like you who argues without any good understanding of facts around them is why stupid threads like this exist...
Lmao now I'm stupid? Not here to argue... reread the thread. You yourself run an oil cooler. That is telling.

Continue to spread misinformation if that's what you want to believe. Tell people that buying a radiator is going to keep their oil under 270f (engine torque reduction) on track (not a single person has been able to support this with fact). Contact ginger extract and ask him about how his csf radiator failed to keep engine oil temps from rising over 270f on track.

I'll stick to what I've gathered from facts and first hand experience that suggests otherwise.

I'm just absolutely baffled that a car can run at a perfectly normal operating coolant temperature yet oil could be at 290f and you guys want to argue the radiator is what needs to be upgraded.
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      09-02-2016, 09:42 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334
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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
What data do you want? Coolant triggers limp mode before oil does? You can just do a simple search yourself and see how many reports seeing limp mode before oil temp hits 300F...

Oh, btw What makes N52/54/55 so different from any other water cooled engines??? Please enlighten me...

I know radiator mods help more than oil cooler from my own experience... I never go over 270F with just a relatively small single core Dinan oil cooler on my FBO 6AT. And I never do any sort of cool down laps until end of each 20-30 mins sessions at all the track events I have done. Never hit limp mode once aside from the one time that my water pump was dying.

These things aren't rocket science. If you can't figure out why the coolant system upgrades are just as important as oil cooler, well, I am not going waste my time making this thread any longer. People like you who argues without any good understanding of facts around them is why stupid threads like this exist...
Lmao now I'm stupid? Not here to argue... reread the thread. You yourself run an oil cooler. That is telling.

Continue to spread misinformation if that's what you want to believe. Tell people that buying a radiator is going to keep their oil under 270f (engine torque reduction) on track (not a single person has been able to support this with fact).

I'll stick to what I've gathered from facts and first hand experience that suggests otherwise.
Sigh... Not here to argue? This whole thread is a mess because of you.

Bigger radiator + bigger oil cooler is bigger than two oil cooler... Why? Because you can shed more heat by fully utilizing both systems. That's misinformation? Lol please, how about you actually answer the questions I raised in my previous reply.

If that's too hard for you to understand. You are either just stubborn as hell or just not too bright to begin with.
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      09-02-2016, 09:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
Sigh... Not here to argue? This whole thread is a mess because of you.

Bigger radiator + bigger oil cooler is bigger than two oil cooler... Why? Because you can shed more heat by fully utilizing both systems. That's misinformation? Lol please, how about you actually answer the questions I raised in my previous reply.

If that's too hard for you to understand. You are either just stubborn as hell or just not too bright to begin with.
Ok so now you're saying you need both. Are you also saying a radiator alone won't do it? Because that is exactly what I'm saying too. This is genius.

I don't need to explain it. You can interpret the data for yourself.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...LQG8vUnm_oMdMA

That will answer your questions on wat makes the n55 engine design different.

Now answer my question why during hard driving I was able to drop coolant temps 30f with the heater core yet oil still hovered right around the same temp. I'm serious. Please provide some kind of explanation because it's throwing a pretty big kink into me wanting to believe a radiator is going to cure oil temps from rising on track. I in fact was able to do so with nothing more than distilled water and a 26 row oil cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
What data do you want? Coolant triggers limp mode before oil does? You can just do a simple search yourself and see how many reports seeing limp mode before oil temp hits 300F...
literally every single one of the threads where people claim they are "overheating" on track ends with them not even knowing how to check coolant temps. Some of them were even looking at their oil gauge! Just about all of them weren't even hitting full limp. Rather, these people were experiencing engine torque reduction due to either brake discs overheating (solved via coding) or engine oil exceeding 270f (engine torque reduction). You need some better data.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
I know radiator mods help more than oil cooler from my own experience... I never go over 270F with just a relatively small single core Dinan oil cooler on my FBO 6AT.
These things arent rockets science... you spent 1500 on a "relatively small" Dinan cooler, which is actually pretty big as it doubles the stock cooling capacity of the oil cooler, and you never go over 270f. 26 rows is about all that fits and you're running a 23 row oil cooler. At least a 19 row is recommended... are you still going to stick to your guns and say you're not going over 270f because of your radiator?

Specifications Total Volume Stock: 9.5 oz. / Total Volume Dinan: 19 oz.
Stock Surface Area: 45 sq./in. / Dinan Surface Area: 67.5 sq./in.
Stock Cooling Tubes: 10 / Dinan Cooling Tubes: 23
Stock Tube Length: 90 in. / Dinan Tube Length: 207 in.
Stock Tube Area: 112.5 sq./in. / Dinan Tube Area: 414 sq./in.

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      09-02-2016, 10:17 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
Ok so now you're saying you need both. Are you also saying a radiator alone won't do it? Because that is exactly what I'm saying too. This is genius.

I don't need to explain it. You can interpret the data for yourself.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...LQG8vUnm_oMdMA

That will answer your questions on wat makes the n55 engine design different.

Now answer my question why during hard driving I was able to drop coolant temps 30f with the heater core yet oil still hovered right around the same temp. I'm serious. Please provide some kind of explanation because it's throwing a pretty big kink into me wanting to believe a radiator is going to cure oil temps from rising on track. I in fact was able to do so with nothing more than distilled water and a 26 row oil cooler.
1. You wanna point out the specifics of what makes N55 cooling system so different from N54/52, which is what you and feuer are arguing about the whole time? oh, nvm, I know the answer to that already: NOTHING. That's why you cite the whole article instead, no? There is nothing in any of the N5x series engine that defies the simply laws of heat transfer.

2. Define what you mean by "hard driving" and please also the power output of your N55. A stockish N55/54 just fooling around on winding back roads with traffic lights and stop signs are a lot different from a FBO car hauling ass at triple digit speed on a road course for 20-30 mins straight. Think heat soak, air flow, etc.

In any case, I don't think you are interested in an intelligent discussion and I don't really have any interests in getting into a piss match with someone like you. So feel free to believe in whatever you want to believe in and answer the above questions with whatever BS you can think of.
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      09-02-2016, 10:28 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
Ok so now you're saying you need both. Are you also saying a radiator alone won't do it? Because that is exactly what I'm saying too. This is genius.

I don't need to explain it. You can interpret the data for yourself.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...LQG8vUnm_oMdMA

That will answer your questions on wat makes the n55 engine design different.

Now answer my question why during hard driving I was able to drop coolant temps 30f with the heater core yet oil still hovered right around the same temp. I'm serious. Please provide some kind of explanation because it's throwing a pretty big kink into me wanting to believe a radiator is going to cure oil temps from rising on track. I in fact was able to do so with nothing more than distilled water and a 26 row oil cooler.



literally every single one of the threads where people claim they are "overheating" on track ends with them not even knowing how to check coolant temps. Some of them were even looking at their oil gauge! Just about all of them weren't even hitting full limp. Rather, these people were experiencing engine torque reduction due to either brake discs overheating (solved via coding) or engine oil exceeding 270f (engine torque reduction). You need some better data.




These things arent rockets science... you spent 1500 on a "relatively small" Dinan cooler, which is actually pretty big as it doubles the stock cooling capacity of the oil cooler, and you never go over 270f. 26 rows is about all that fits and you're running a 23 row oil cooler. At least a 19 row is recommended... are you still going to stick to your guns and say you're not going over 270f because of your radiator?

Specifications Total Volume Stock: 9.5 oz. / Total Volume Dinan: 19 oz.
Stock Surface Area: 45 sq./in. / Dinan Surface Area: 67.5 sq./in.
Stock Cooling Tubes: 10 / Dinan Cooling Tubes: 23
Stock Tube Length: 90 in. / Dinan Tube Length: 207 in.
Stock Tube Area: 112.5 sq./in. / Dinan Tube Area: 414 sq./in.
To address your point:

1. At least on the cars w/ iDrive, the car will tell you whether it is your coolant or something else that is overheating and triggering limp modes.

2. There is no visible warning nor any torque reduction from the car until you hit 300F/148C on N54. You are absolutely wrong about the car can trigger tq reduction at lower temp and I HIGHLY DOUBT N55 is any different in regard to this. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856

3. Brake related limp is occurs on certain model years. Details of which is still a mystery, but it has something to do with the versions of DSC modules in each car. I know some cars will trigger them even at low speed circuits, some such as mine won't even after setting the dust boots on fire from going balls out at Road America...

4. I didn't spend no where near +$1000 on my oil cooler. I bought it simply because it was a better PnP solution than anything else. Yes, it is significantly larger than stock, but still no where near as the dual setups that a lot of people run. Rather, I used the space on the driver side for the PPK aux. radiator instead.

5. I know local people who overheat and trigger limp mode in their FBO 6AT cars with even larger oil cooler than mine. Same tracks, same cars, but one has larger radiator and one doesn't. You tell me whether or not the radiator doesnt make any difference...

6. You gotta quit twisting my words. All I said you guys need to think about the coolant system as well, instead of just shoving the biggest oil coolers you can find. I never said bigger radiator will be the solution to all of your limp mode problem. On the other hand, you are the guy who tries to preach that oil coolers can solve everything, from eliminating limp mode to curing AIDS.

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      09-02-2016, 11:12 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
1. You wanna point out the specifics of what makes N55 cooling system so different from N54/52, which is what you and feuer are arguing about the whole time? oh, nvm, I know the answer to that already: NOTHING. That's why you cite the whole article instead, no? There is nothing in any of the N5x series engine that defies the simply laws of heat transfer.
OK, don't read and interpret things for yourself. Believe that engine design hasn't changed in decades and you're still driving grandmas cast iron Cadillac that required several gallons of water to be pored into the cooling system to make it to the grocery store and back.

Overview (page6):

Cylinderhead: •Speciallydesignedwaterpassagesintergradedintothec ylinderheadenhance injectorcooling.

VANOS: •TheN55VANOSoilpassagesaresimplifiedcomparedtotheN 54engine. (read further to see how the oil flowing to lubricate VANOS does not transfer as much heat to coolant in its new path. This is the only oil really flowing through the head.)

Oilsupply: •Anenhancedandsimplifiedoilcircuitdesignisused.

Page 27:OilSupply Thefollowinggraphicsshowanoverviewoftheoilcircuito ftheN55.Comparedtothe N54engine,thereareconsiderablyfeweroilductsinthecy linderhead.Thisismainlydue totheuseofthenewVANOSsolenoidvalves.

Page 31: TheN55engineisequippedwithoilspraynozzlesforthepur poseofcoolingthepiston crown.Aspecialtoolisrequiredforpositioningtheoilsp raynozzles. (I quote this one because AUDI and VW tuning almost always increases the flow of these oil sprayers as they also increase power levels. I've never heard a BMW tuner ever mention increasing the pressure of these sprayers on an N55 when tuning...)

Page 32:CylinderHead: TherearenownoconnectionsfortheVANOSnon-returnvalvesastheyhavebeen integratedinthesolenoidvalves.Thecylinderheadalsof eaturescoolingpassages nearthefuelinjectors;providingindirectcooling.

Page 44: oilpassagesarerequiredandthatthenon-returnvalvesarenolongeronthe cylinderheadbutratherincorporatedintothesolenoidva lvesonN55.

Page 75: CoolingSystem ThecoolingsystemoftheN55isenhancedwithadditionaloi lcooling. Twodifferenttypesofoilcoolingsystemsareuseddependi ngonthemodelandapplication.Inthe“hotclimate”versio n,heattransferfromtheengineoiltotheenginecoolantis avoidedbyseparatingtheoilcoolerfromtheenginecoolan tcircuit.Theotherversion usesanauxiliaryradiatorincombinationwithanoiltocoo lantheatexchangerboltedto theoilfilterhousing.Theauxiliaryradiatorenhancesco olingefficiencybyaddingsurface areatothecoolingsystem. (review the picture carefully and realize how taking the "oil to coolant" heat exchanger out of the equation, coupled with the aforementioned changes to oil flow, places more burden on the oil cooler to cool oil rather than shed heat via the cooling system.)

Page 78: Note: Ifaseparateoiltoaircoolerisnotinstalled,anauxiliar yradiatorin conjuctionwithanoiltocoolantheatexchangerisusedtoc oolthe engineoil.

Page 79: Note: MostcurrentUSvehiclesuseaseparateengineoiltoairhea texchanger tocooltheengineoil(hotclimateversion).

Page 80: CoolantPassages Thecoolantpassagesinthecylinderheadarealsousedfori ndirectcoolingofthefuel injectors.Thefollowinggraphicclearlyshowsthattheco olantflowsoverthevalvesand thefuelinjectors,thusreducingtheheattransfertothec omponentstoaminimum. (This infers the coolant passages are being more used as a buffer to protect vital components like injectors from rising heat due to increased engine oil temperatures. The hot climate system is depending on the external oil to air cooler to reduce that heat.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
2. Define what you mean by "hard driving" and please also the power output of your N55. A stockish N55/54 just fooling around on winding back roads with traffic lights and stop signs are
By hard driving I mean I was driving 60-90 MPH (3.5-6k rpms in 3rd to 4th). I was driving as if I was on track. I had the roads to myself. Over 4 hours I did every variation of driving I could to come to my conclusions. 10 minutes straight of driving at 4-6k rpms up a hill and engine oil increased rapidly while engine coolant temps stayed steady...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
a lot different from a FBO car hauling ass at triple digit speed on a road course for 20-30 mins straight. Think heat soak, air flow, etc.
Funny you say that too because I found that at WOT at 90+ mph coolant temps actually dropped/stayed the same throughout a straight away while oil temps rose rapidly as rpms climbed. This demonstrates that on the N55 thermal transfer within the block, or "heatsoak," doesn't happen fast enough for the cooling system to remove excess heat. Heat continues to build in the bottom end relying on the oil cooler to shed it.

I am FBO pushing 22psi peak with a custom tune from COBB. No oil cooler on this car yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
In any case, I don't think you are interested in an intelligent discussion and I don't really have any interests in getting into a piss match with someone like you. So feel free to believe in whatever you want to believe in and answer the above questions with whatever BS you can think of.
Feel free to continue to makes claims without any basis when I am doing my best to present FACTS that say otherwise. Keep citing nonexistent threads of people coolant overheating.
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      09-02-2016, 11:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by bNks334 View Post
OK, don't read and interpret things for yourself. Believe that engine design hasn't changed in decades and you're still driving grandmas cast iron Cadillac that required several gallons of water to be pored into the cooling system to make it to the grocery store and back.

Overview (page6):

Cylinderhead: •Speciallydesignedwaterpassagesintergradedintothec ylinderheadenhance injectorcooling.

VANOS: •TheN55VANOSoilpassagesaresimplifiedcomparedtotheN 54engine. (read further to see how the oil flowing to lubricate VANOS does not transfer as much heat to coolant in its new path. This is the only oil really flowing through the head.)

Oilsupply: •Anenhancedandsimplifiedoilcircuitdesignisused.

Page 27:OilSupply Thefollowinggraphicsshowanoverviewoftheoilcircuito ftheN55.Comparedtothe N54engine,thereareconsiderablyfeweroilductsinthecy linderhead.Thisismainlydue totheuseofthenewVANOSsolenoidvalves.

Page 31: TheN55engineisequippedwithoilspraynozzlesforthepur poseofcoolingthepiston crown.Aspecialtoolisrequiredforpositioningtheoilsp raynozzles. (I quote this one because AUDI and VW tuning almost always increases the flow of these oil sprayers as they also increase power levels. I've never heard a BMW tuner ever mention increasing the pressure of these sprayers on an N55 when tuning...)

Page 32:CylinderHead: TherearenownoconnectionsfortheVANOSnon-returnvalvesastheyhavebeen integratedinthesolenoidvalves.Thecylinderheadalsof eaturescoolingpassages nearthefuelinjectors;providingindirectcooling.

Page 44: oilpassagesarerequiredandthatthenon-returnvalvesarenolongeronthe cylinderheadbutratherincorporatedintothesolenoidva lvesonN55.

Page 75: CoolingSystem ThecoolingsystemoftheN55isenhancedwithadditionaloi lcooling. Twodifferenttypesofoilcoolingsystemsareuseddependi ngonthemodelandapplication.Inthe“hotclimate”versio n,heattransferfromtheengineoiltotheenginecoolantis avoidedbyseparatingtheoilcoolerfromtheenginecoolan tcircuit.Theotherversion usesanauxiliaryradiatorincombinationwithanoiltocoo lantheatexchangerboltedto theoilfilterhousing.Theauxiliaryradiatorenhancesco olingefficiencybyaddingsurface areatothecoolingsystem. (review the picture carefully and realize how taking the "oil to coolant" heat exchanger out of the equation, coupled with the aforementioned changes to oil flow, places more burden on the oil cooler to cool oil rather than shed heat via the cooling system.)

Page 78: Note: Ifaseparateoiltoaircoolerisnotinstalled,anauxiliar yradiatorin conjuctionwithanoiltocoolantheatexchangerisusedtoc oolthe engineoil.

Page 79: Note: MostcurrentUSvehiclesuseaseparateengineoiltoairhea texchanger tocooltheengineoil(hotclimateversion).

Page 80: CoolantPassages Thecoolantpassagesinthecylinderheadarealsousedfori ndirectcoolingofthefuel injectors.Thefollowinggraphicclearlyshowsthattheco olantflowsoverthevalvesand thefuelinjectors,thusreducingtheheattransfertothec omponentstoaminimum. (This infers the coolant passages are being more used as a buffer to protect vital components like injectors from rising heat due to increased engine oil temperatures. The hot climate system is depending on the external oil to air cooler to reduce that heat.)



By hard driving I mean I was driving 60-90 MPH (3.5-6k rpms in 3rd to 4th). I was driving as if I was on track. I had the roads to myself. Over 4 hours I did every variation of driving I could to come to my conclusions. 10 minutes straight of driving at 4-6k rpms up a hill and engine oil increased rapidly while engine coolant temps stayed steady...



Funny you say that too because I found that at WOT at 90+ mph coolant temps actually dropped/stayed the same throughout a straight away while oil temps rose rapidly as rpms climbed. This demonstrates that on the N55 thermal transfer within the block, or "heatsoak," doesn't happen fast enough for the cooling system to remove excess heat. Heat continues to build in the bottom end relying on the oil cooler to shed it.

I am FBO pushing 22psi peak with a custom tune from COBB. No oil cooler on this car yet.



Feel free to continue to makes claims without any basis when I am doing my best to present FACTS that say otherwise. Keep citing nonexistent threads of people coolant overheating.
- Ok, correct me if I am wrong in this case. N55 can transfer more thermal load to the coolant in comparison to N54, correct? So wouldn't that make an radiator upgrade a better choice in this case???

- You are NEVER going to replicate the same track environment outside of a road course.

- So your car doesn't even have an oil cooler at all??? Lol... Ok man... Just let me repeat myself again, radiator upgrade should be considered along with oil cooler upgrade. Once you factoring the flow rate and deltaT between the inlets and outlets for both oil and coolant, huge ass oil cooler can only do so much if you stay with a stock radiator. But I NEVER did say running these car without any sort of oil cooler is a good idea.

- You are just being ridiculous now.
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      09-02-2016, 11:29 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
To address your point:

2. There is no visible warning nor any torque reduction from the car until you hit 300F/148C on N54. You are absolutely wrong about the car can trigger tq reduction at lower temp and I HIGHLY DOUBT N55 is any different in regard to this. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856
I was basing my comments off the "limp mode party on track" thread that has a table in it. Oil definitely doesn't reduce torque until 300-314f. Even synthetic oil's lubricating abilities and lifespan is decreasing rapidly beyond 270f though.

The correct numbers are actually listed on page 92 of the PDF I posted. you are linking to a thread that quotes the same PDF but specific to the N52 engine. Seems like the entire community is wrong on that one LOL

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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
3. Brake related limp is occurs on certain model years. Details of which is still a mystery, but it has something to do with the versions of DSC modules in each car. I know some cars will trigger them even at low speed circuits, some such as mine won't even after setting the dust boots on fire from going balls out at Road America
Yeah I agree with that. I'd guess 128i/328i cars are coded to be less performance oriented than the turbo cars. Makes sense they'd reduce power for brake disc overheating more quickly than a performance oriented car with better pad compounds from the factory.

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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
4. I didn't spend no where near +$1000 on my oil cooler. I bought it simply because it was a better PnP solution than anything else. Yes, it is significantly larger than stock, but still no where near as the dual setups that a lot of people run. Rather, I used the space on the driver side for the PPK aux. radiator instead.
I agree with you that the drivers side wheel well is definitely better used for an ATF cooler or the aux coolant radiator. Again, I don't see any data from vendors or users indicating 2 large oil coolers are doing anything more than 1... I'd need to see logs to show there is benefit to that setup too... I am just not the kind of person to just blindly take someones advice... I've done the logging myself.

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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
6. You gotta quit twisting my words. All I said you guys need to think about the coolant system as well, instead of just shoving the biggest oil coolers you can find. I never said bigger radiator will be the solution to all of your limp mode problem. On the other hand, you are the guy who tries to preach that oil coolers can solve everything, from eliminating limp mode to curing AIDS.
That is funny, but don't twist MY intent. I am literally only here to point out that while upgrading your radiator might help coolant issues it is NOT going to prevent your oil temperatures from rising rapidly while on track, which is what Feure was suggesting.

Thanks for keeping me busy on my day off lmao...

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      09-02-2016, 11:34 AM   #56
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Ok, I can barely read your rant now since it is so poorly formatted. But are you agreeing with me on the fact that tq reduction doesn't occur until +300F? While you were saying that happens on +270F. Yeah, radiator isn't gonna do shit if you have no oil cooler at all... But even with just the PPK auxiliary radiator and stock oil cooler, I know and have seen stock power 135is can stay below limp mode temp at Road America in the advance group, as long as it is not +90F ambient temp out there.

Btw, dude, you cant read for shit... The link I cited is clearly for N54. Get off the internet, please...
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      09-02-2016, 11:36 AM   #57
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- Ok, correct me if I am wrong in this case. N55 can transfer more thermal load to the coolant in comparison to N54, correct? So wouldn't that make an radiator upgrade a better choice in this case?
I never said that and nothing I posted suggests that. The oil to water heat exchanger no longer exists, as already pointed out in this thread. US cars are Oil to air cooled now.

The 128i manual has an oil to water heat exchanger still. In that case, if you had read the thread, I've already conceded that a radiator upgrade might make way for sense for those people (hence BMW's creation of the PPk kit). Their cars do NOT come with the "hot climate" version oil to air cooler.

Those without the oil to water heat exchanger (pretty much all of us) would benefit more from an oil cooler upgrade. BMW literally has separated the oil and water cooling jackets/passages. Oil is being used as a cooling agent for the bottom end and coolant is being used the keep the head cool in order to better regulate combustion temperature for efficiency and performance purposes.

And now we are just talking in circles because this is all just a rehash of everything I've already pointed out except now you're slowly seeing my point.

Seems to me like oil temp issues got worse when BMW mitigated coolant temps issues by removing the oil to water heat exchanger. However, they failed performance drivers by only using a small 10 row oil cooler...

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      09-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #58
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Ok, I can barely read your rant now since it is so poorly formatted. But are you agreeing with me on the fact that tq reduction doesn't occur until +300F? While you were saying that happens on +270F. Yeah, radiator isn't gonna do shit if you have no oil cooler at all... But even with just the PPK auxiliary radiator and stock oil cooler, I know and have seen stock power 135is can stay below limp mode temp at Road America in the advance group, as long as it is not +90F ambient temp out there.

Btw, dude, you cant read for shit... The link I cited is clearly for N54. Get off the internet, please...
Actually we are both wrong... it is clearly discussing BMW's new I6 engines in general... not specific to any engine.
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      09-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #59
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I never said that and nothing I posted suggests that. The oil to water heat exchanger no longer exists, as already pointed out in this thread. US cars are Oil to air cooled now.

The 128i manual as an oil to water heat exchanger still. In that case, if you had read the thread, I've already conceded that a radiator upgrade might make way for sense for those people.

Those without the oil to water heat exchanger (pretty much all of us) would benefit more from an oil cooler upgrade. BMW literally has separated the oil and water cooling jackets/passages. Oil is being used as a cooling agent for the bottom end and coolant is being used the keep the head cool in order to better regulate temperature for efficiency and performance purposes.

And now we are just talking in circles because this is all just a rehash of everything I've already pointed out except now you're slowly seeing my point.
Why are we back to talking about 128i now, which is an engine neither of us has??? The whole reason I wrote in this thread is because you are saying radiator won't do jack shit. Well you are kind of right on that part, because you have NO OIL COOLER AT ALL...

Anyway, we are talking in circle because of people like you who can't neither read nor write.
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      09-02-2016, 11:41 AM   #60
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Actually we are both wrong... it is clearly discussing BMW's new I6 engines in general... not specific to any engine.
You still can't read for shit... Tell me if this pdf includes N54 or not.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709
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      09-02-2016, 11:47 AM   #61
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Why are we back to talking about 128i now, which is an engine neither of us has??? The whole reason I wrote in this thread is because you are saying radiator won't do jack shit. Well you are kind of right on that part, because you have NO OIL COOLER AT ALL...

Anyway, we are talking in circle because of people like you who can't neither read nor write.
WTF you are literally not understanding ONE DAMN BIT of this.

I have an undersized 10row oil cooler from the factory, which is pretty much the only effective way for an N5x engine to shed heat from the engine oil since BMW moved to the "hot climate" oil to air cooler for US production vehicles.

BMW engineers literally said "ok, we can't overburden the cooling system in hot climates by also using it to cool the oil." "Solution: lets further separate the two cooling agents and use a separate oil to air cooler for engine oil."
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      09-02-2016, 11:52 AM   #62
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You still can't read for shit... Tell me if this pdf includes N54 or not.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709
It absolutely does mention N54, you're right... but it is clearly an article describing all of BMW's new I6 engines. How does that make it an N54 specific article like the N55 specific article I posted? It's not... and that's what you said it was. wow. Now we're just nitpicking for no reason.
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      09-02-2016, 11:59 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
You still can't read for shit... Tell me if this pdf includes N54 or not.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709
It absolutely does mention N54, you're right... but it is clearly an article describing all of BMW's new I6 engines. How does that make it an N54 specific article like the N55 specific article I posted? It's not... and that's what you said it was. wow. Now we're just nitpicking for no reason.
I am done replying to you lol. You just wrote in your previous posts that you car doesn't have an oil cooler at all now you are saying you installed one... Whatever dude, you win.
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      09-02-2016, 12:04 PM   #64
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Why are we back to talking about 128i now
Lmao I mentioned the 128i because it is a living example of BMW's engine design to cool oil using a heat exchanger. The two fluids are being used to cool two different parts of the engine. The heat excahnger used coolant to in turn then cool the oil. As we all know coolant is more effective then oil at transferring heat.

This is all relevant because once you take the heat exchanger out of the equation then you're relying on either NO oil cooling (an auto 128i) or you're relying on the "hot climate" oil to air cooler (the undersized 10 row we are all upgrading).

OP asked a question. The answer to that question is that is all depends on what car you're driving. Do you have an N52? N54? N55? Auto? Manual? External oil cooler? Heat exchanger? I pointed this out back on page two before you came along and started taking things out of context assuming that I was telling people not to upgrade their radiators.

That variation is probably why everyone has replied to his thread with a different answer.

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      09-02-2016, 12:05 PM   #65
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I am done replying to you lol. You just wrote in your previous posts that you car doesn't have an oil cooler at all now you are saying you installed one... Whatever dude, you win.
I obviously meant an upgraded oil cooler. You can clearly see from my sig I have an N55 135i, which is produced with the hot climate package from BMW.
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      09-02-2016, 01:29 PM   #66
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bNks334 - The oil to water heat exchanger no longer exists, as already pointed out in this thread. US cars are Oil to air cooled now.

The 128i manual has an oil to water heat exchanger still. In that case, if you had read the thread, I've already conceded that a radiator upgrade might make way for sense for those people (hence BMW's creation of the PPk kit). Their cars do NOT come with the "hot climate" version oil to air cooler.
Those without the oil to water heat exchanger (pretty much all of us) would benefit more from an oil cooler upgrade.

bNks334 - I have an undersized 10row oil cooler from the factory, which is pretty much the only effective way for an N5x engine to shed heat from the engine oil since BMW moved to the "hot climate" oil to air cooler for US production vehicles.
BMW engineers literally said "ok, we can't overburden the cooling system in hot climates by also using it to cool the oil." "Solution: lets further separate the two cooling agents and use a separate oil to air cooler for engine oil."

"hot climate" ? oil to air cooler for US production vehicles ?
All n5x share exactly the same cooling system, in US, EU, AU and everywhere else, period.
I have dealt with 335i specifically, in US, EU and even SA but unfortunately the PDF is still in the works for you to read it.
Regarding your concern about the coolant temperature "fluctuation" and the oil temperature being somewhat steady, slowly increase or slowly decrease.
The oil temperature sensor and the coolant temperature sensor are located on or around the OFH.
So in theory if these fluid have similar characteristics they will show similar temperature reading but they are not so they do not and is not because how the engine is constructed internally.
Additionally, the thermostats for the oil and coolant are on opposite side, hot vs cool, they open at different temperatures, they have different ranges of fully closed, half open, and fully open, and what the oil system does not have is outlet temperature sensor, what the coolant system has, and is directly linked with the electric water pump that depending on this outlet coolant temperature, plus factoring in RPM and LOAD will either speed up or slow down. No such thing with the oil system and pump.
This thread started with HEATHER ON OR OFF so if you missed it in you damn PDF's the additional coolant radiator is hooked up to the coolant lines from the heater core.
Without insinuating on what is undersized here if there was not need for extra cooling from coolant BMW would not have put additional coolant radiator regardless of its size, never the less hooked up to the heater core.
So inevitable to conclude that using the heater core fan the shred heat works.
Ask BMW why they went this route and until you get an answer stop posting nonsense here.
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