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Best performance all season tire?
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08-30-2016, 03:03 PM | #2 |
Curmudgeon and Pedant
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The COntinental DWS and Michelin Pilot AS3 seem to be tires of choice (for go-flats). I'll probably get AS3 when my PS2 zp wear out, my son is having excellent luck with his.
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08-30-2016, 05:23 PM | #5 |
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08-30-2016, 08:01 PM | #6 |
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I wish! Got a set of 219m's. Sometimes I wish I picked up a set of 17" apex wheels after seeing how cheap 17" tires are.
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08-30-2016, 08:30 PM | #7 |
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08-31-2016, 06:52 AM | #9 |
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Drives: 2007 E91 xDrive
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I've been doing a lot of research in this category, as I'm about to get new tires.
The Michelin does very well from a dry and wet performance aspect, but it seems to be a bit noisy and ill-mannered, and the snow performance isn't so great. The Continental does very well in snow, but the dry performance isn't quite as good. The BFGoodrich does very well in dry, wet and snow (for an UHPAS). It has good road manners, too (not too jarring, low road noise). I'm going with this one, and BFG has a $50 gift card rebate right now through mid-September. Couple of downsides to the BFGoodrich, it seems to be slightly heavier than other top UHPAS tires, not like run flat heavy, but just marginally heavier. Tread also seems a bit wider, which could explain some of the weight. New tread depth is also 9/32 rather than standard 10/32 for this category. (Sorry, I just saw your comment that it's unavailable in your size.) Depending on budget and priorities (good ride, snow traction, etc) you might also want to look at the Dunlop Signature HP and the Kumho Ecsta 4X II. These can both be had cheaper than the others. The Dunlop gives up a little bit in extreme performance, but has good manners. The Kumho doesn't do as well in snow, but it's quite inexpensive, and the dry performance is solid. |
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08-31-2016, 07:06 AM | #10 |
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A/S 3s tend to be a little stiff too as well as noisy, but excellent control and wet traction.
Totally confidence inspiring. |
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08-31-2016, 07:58 AM | #11 |
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Continental DWS should be sold with a warning stating that steering response, weight, and accuracy WILL BE DIMINISHED!!!!
They are quiet, smooth, long wearing, grip well in dry and damn good in the wet. Their snow traction is good too. But the way they soften the steering feel is just shy of criminal. Right away, the steering effort is MUCH reduced with this tire. It takes a lot less effort to turn the steering wheel with DWS. It feels as if someone turned up the boost on the power steering pump. Additionally, it takes MORE steering input to negotiate the same turns. You have to turn the wheel more for the same amount of turning from the car. This is noticeable, even at parking lot speeds, and gets worse as speeds increase. The effect is that of a slower steering ratio. Also, even though the tires ultimately have very good grip, cornering above 8/10ths is done with relatively large slip angles. Those sidewalls are soft. So soft that a keen driver will also detect an increase in body roll, as the sidewall flexes during brisk cornering. Those same soft sidewalls also contribute to MORE vertical bouncing of the front and rear suspension over certain surfaces. DWS is a nice tire for an average driver. A non enthusiast may never notice any of these deficiencies. They may slip past an enthusiast too, if they didn't know to attribute the softening to the tires. DWS are an excellent way to shave away a sizeable amount of BMW feel and throw it in the trash. Depending on your stance, that can bee good and/or bad. Tired of harsh BMW suspension? DWS to the rescue! Steering to weighty? DWS! Steering too quick/darty? DWS! But be warned, response, precision, and accuracy will suffer dramatically. The stiffer your suspension, the more this effect will be evident. More... many of these effects can be reduced by upping the tire pressure a bit. DWS at low pressures are steered by water pockets and can jerk the steering wheel on the road when wet. More psi eliminates this. It can also boost steering response a bit. More psi will also increase the ride stability/solidity some. Adding more pressure at the front on DWS also reduces the steering weight even further. Moving on... I tried the BFG Comp 2 AS too. They were MUCH nicer than the DWS. The ride was equally smooth, but had a sense of solidity too. The steering was firm, linear, and weighty. These tires were uber quiet. The only notable noise was a grippy squishy sound as the tire rolled along the pavement. It sounded like the tire was sticky. Almost a low quiet version of the sound that your sneakers would make on a freshly waxed tile floor. This sound was quiet, and only noticeable at low speeds with the windows down. Not objectionable at all, just something I noticed. These tires also run wide, unlike the DWS that are slim for their given size. This gives you an aggressive look to the tire/wheel combo a la PSS. There is also good curb protection as the rim is recessed into the wheel a bit more than usual. Unfortunately, my Comp 2 AS were unmounted and returned to TireRack because they failed to balance. Firestone nor my local BMW dealership could get them to balance up. I don't know if this is more indicative of BFG quality, or ineptitude on the part of my local technicians. I was interested in the snow performance of the BFGs as I suspected they would trump the DWS performance. I never did get to find out because I sent them back for the balance issues. Another note, DWS have a tendency to flatspot over night. The tire deforms a bit under the weight of the car while parked over night. This results in the first mile or 2 of subsequent drives to have a bit of vibration until the tire heats up and returns to its normal shape. Some people experience this, some don't. But it is common with the DWS per Google search. The BFG Comp 2 AS did not suffer this occurrence in my hands. Last edited by thakid22; 08-31-2016 at 08:03 AM.. |
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08-31-2016, 08:47 AM | #12 |
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Always had good experience with Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 2 and the newer Asymmetric 3 in all conditions.... mostly rain though...
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08-31-2016, 08:48 AM | #13 | |
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Regarding your BFGoodrich balance issue, I wonder how common it is to have tires that simply fail to balance, despite all best efforts. I assume it was all four tires? Hard to dismiss if that was the case (unless perhaps just a bad batch). Did TireRack acknowledge or address the issue, aside from doing the exchange? |
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08-31-2016, 09:50 AM | #14 | |
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I had DWS 06 for about a week. Steering response was so horrible I returned them. Losing hundred $ was worth it, just to get rid of them. |
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08-31-2016, 12:50 PM | #15 |
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Good to know, I'll take them off my list, but I've pretty much 100% decided to go with the BFGoodrich at this point, anyway.
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08-31-2016, 05:39 PM | #17 |
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I'm no fan of UHP all-season tires. They're not really good enough for winters here in Wisconsin so I go for summer tires when the weather's good and winters when it's not.
My car came with Pilot Sport A/S 3s on it when I bought it in May, and I promptly replaced them with 19s with summer tires. My stock 18" 193Ms will be getting snow tires soon. But, if you want another tire to consider, check out the General G-MAX AS-03. It's not quite the equal of the BFG Comp-2 A/S but it at least is somewhat similar and is also sorta competent in the winter. |
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08-31-2016, 06:27 PM | #18 | |
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It is not unheard of for a tire to not be able to be balanced. However on my BFGs, all four of the tires vibrated. Mind you, my sport package wheels have two different tire sizes for front vs rear. This means the tires came from at least two different manufacturing batches. This would indicate either very bad quality control at BFG or just a lack of care on the part of the installers. I went in detail about the merits of the BFG because, absent the balance issue (which may very well have originated from the mount/balance technician, rather than the tire itself) the tire seemed an all around upgrade to the DWS at a very similar price. I never followed up with TireRack on the tires. I told them I didn't like them due tyo the balance. They sent me shipping labels and a UPS guy to retrieve the tires. Once they got the tires back they immediately refunded my purchase price. TireRack has a 30day test drive on most tires. You can send those back, even if you just don't like them. I never asked TireRack what was wrong with those tires. |
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08-31-2016, 06:35 PM | #19 | |
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08-31-2016, 10:58 PM | #20 | |
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09-01-2016, 09:26 AM | #21 | |
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What road force numbers were you getting from the BFGs? I found that anything over 9 lbs of road force causes noticeable vibration. |
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09-01-2016, 11:41 AM | #22 | |
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You are spot on in your observation that road force numbers of 9+ will result in less than desirable results. Back in the day, my Honda techs had phenomenal success at reducing the road force # by repositioning the tire on the wheel. They would match the high spot of the tire, with the low spot of the wheel. (High/Low referring to heavy/light) This lead to a closer natural balance of the tire/wheel assembly. So much so, that the wheels required little or in a few cases no weights in order to balance successfully. In fact, most new tires come with a red/yellow/green/orange/blue or white dot somewhere along the face of the sidewall. The manufacturer applies this mark to indicate the heavy portion of the tire. For easy balancing, this should be aligned with the low spot on the wheel. Prior to TPMS this was usually near the valvestem hole on the wheel. I don't know if the additional weight of tmps sensors change this or not... In any event, the wheel can be spun on the balance machine without the tire mounted to find the wheels light spot. Tire balance is not rocket science. Vibration stems from only a few sources... Bad wheels Bad Tires Bad Suspension components And the most common, bad technicians. Sucks to hear about your DWS needing to be replaced so many times in order to get a good set. I have them on my 535i and on my mothers 535i as well. Here, they balanced up very nicely on the first set on the first try. I can't recall the source, but I recall reading a study stating Michelin tires were delivered with with the fewest # of manufacturer defects. This coincides with what I have experienced in my automotive lifetime. In that study, they stood far beyond the next closest competitor. Dunlop and Continental were below average, even though I have good luck with those brands. I'll dig around and see if I can find that report, though it must be 3+ years old by now... What's more is that there appears to be quality "grades" of each particular tire. Each tire is measured and tested for design integrity after it is made and assigned the quality grade. The top grade supposedly goes to Car manufacturer assembly plants (BMW, Honda, Gm, etc). Retailers and resellers are said to receive a lower quality or grade. And I remember hearing of tiers within the retailers too. This may or may not be true, I'll look for my reference here too. |
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