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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Weird engine troubles???



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      09-19-2018, 05:37 PM   #1
CameroN7887
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Weird engine troubles???

Hello everyone, just wanted to get some closure on some issues I was having. For the record I drive a 2008 E92 328i with the N51 SULEV engine. A few months back I was idling in my girlfriends driveway for ~20 minutes perfectly fine, when all the sudden my cars engine hesitates and starts idling really rough, almost about to die then I get the limp mode/half engine power message on my iDrive system, then the idle goes to ~550 which is 50 rpms lower than where it usually sits, but still felt pretty rough. I turned the engine off and on again and it started up fine with the exception of the service engine soon light. It seemed to have a little loss in power but nothing major like I was in limp mode, and I proceeded to drive it about 15 miles home. I ran the code the next day and it gave me one single code, 2A38; valvetronic motor sluggish or open circuit, to which I have searched the internet for months but people usually get this code with a whole slew of other codes associated to a eccentric shaft sensor/motor failure but never that one single code. I cleared the code and haven't had any problems since, I've had the occasional rough idle but after changing spark plugs and all ignition coils it helped, but the rough idle still comes back from time to time. Anyone have any ideas on what it could be/where I should start? Thank you in advance fellas
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      09-19-2018, 09:31 PM   #2
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It appears there is some issue with the Valvetronic system which there may be a possible failure with the valvetronic motor or the valvetronic eccentric shaft.

See the link to an old post which the OP got only the 2A38 error code and replaced the valvetronic motor.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924730

Hope this helps, but if you’re not a well experienced DIYer, take it to an Indy shop specializing in BMWs and have them check that.
Good luck.
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Last edited by jt335i; 09-19-2018 at 09:42 PM..
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      09-20-2018, 12:48 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt335i View Post
It appears there is some issue with the Valvetronic system which there may be a possible failure with the valvetronic motor or the valvetronic eccentric shaft.

See the link to an old post which the OP got only the 2A38 error code and replaced the valvetronic motor.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924730

Hope this helps, but if you're not a well experienced DIYer, take it to an Indy shop specializing in BMWs and have them check that.
Good luck.

Thank you for that! I am as experienced as taking out my spark plugs and coils and I have ISTA installed and have relearned the end stops a few times and heard the whirring noises they describe, the motor might be bad or maybe something with the actual eccentric shaft somehow? Not sure if that could even get damaged at all??
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      09-20-2018, 03:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt335i View Post
It appears there is some issue with the Valvetronic system which there may be a possible failure with the valvetronic motor or the valvetronic eccentric shaft.

See the link to an old post which the OP got only the 2A38 error code and replaced the valvetronic motor.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924730

Hope this helps, but if you're not a well experienced DIYer, take it to an Indy shop specializing in BMWs and have them check that.
Good luck.

After doing some research I came upon this random article from what looks to be a website about the Z series bmws and talks about the 2A38 code and says it might occur after idling for a long period of time (which is what I was doing ), and is a result of a DME software calibration error and says the fix is to reprogram the car to the newest version so I'm assuming it needs an update? Would an Indy be able to do it for me cheaper than a dealer?
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      09-20-2018, 10:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
After doing some research I came upon this random article from what looks to be a website about the Z series bmws and talks about the 2A38 code and says it might occur after idling for a long period of time (which is what I was doing ), and is a result of a DME software calibration error and says the fix is to reprogram the car to the newest version so I'm assuming it needs an update? Would an Indy be able to do it for me cheaper than a dealer?
No problem.
Hopefully it is just related to the DME recalibration.
An Indy shop should be able to do it, but make sure they specialize in BMWs and other German cars if you know a good place, or know someone that can refer you. Can't trust any general auto service centers because they don't know how to properly service a BMW.
Wouldn't take it to a dealer as they would charge you an arm and a leg.
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      09-20-2018, 12:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...2008 E92 328i with the N51 SULEV engine. A few months back I was idling in my girlfriends driveway for ~20 minutes perfectly fine, when all the sudden my cars engine hesitates and starts idling really rough, almost about to die then I get the limp mode/half engine power message...I turned the engine off and on again and it started up fine with the exception of the service engine soon light...one single code, 2A38...I cleared the code and haven't had any problems since
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...I have ISTA installed
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...I came upon this random article...talks about the 2A38 code and says it might occur after idling for a long period of time (which is what I was doing ), and is a result of a DME software calibration error and says the fix is to reprogram the car to the newest version so I'm assuming it needs an update?
Several observations:
1) Bentley definition of 2A38: "P1030 | 2A38 | VVT Control Motor Position Control Deviation (Bank1)." Since the P-code begins with "P1" (as opposed to P0 or P2) that means it is a "BMW-specific" or "manufacturer-specific" code, and I would ONLY trust INPA, ISTA, or other reliable source for the definition. You are likely to just go in circles chasing the code on the idea that "It has SOMETHING to do with Valvetronic"
Did you get the definition you quote with ISTA or is that definition from some other souce, either online or some Non-BMW-Specific scan tool?

2) If the SES light came on when the 2A38 code was saved in DME Memory, you cleared the code, and it has NEVER returned, then I would not be terribly concerned about it. BEFORE you cleared that code, did you check to see if 2A38 is supposed to light a warning lamp, and if it was still present? If ISTA does NOT give you that information, INPA does, and you might try that in the future.

3) If BMW possibly put out a Service Bulletin on the issue (?), and since it is an N51 SULEV (perhaps still under SULEV warranty), I would check with a Dealer or two in your area and see if there is any prescribed software update. If NOT, I would just routinely check for any codes every 3 to 6 months (which is good practice anyway), and NOT waste time/money chasing a transient & perhaps one-time software hiccup.

4) Oh, and try just starting the engine every 5 or 10 minutes to run the Defrost/Climate Control.

George
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      09-20-2018, 06:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt335i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
After doing some research I came upon this random article from what looks to be a website about the Z series bmws and talks about the 2A38 code and says it might occur after idling for a long period of time (which is what I was doing ), and is a result of a DME software calibration error and says the fix is to reprogram the car to the newest version so I'm assuming it needs an update? Would an Indy be able to do it for me cheaper than a dealer?
No problem.
Hopefully it is just related to the DME recalibration.
An Indy shop should be able to do it, but make sure they specialize in BMWs and other German cars if you know a good place, or know someone that can refer you. Can't trust any general auto service centers because they don't know how to properly service a BMW.
Wouldn't take it to a dealer as they would charge you an arm and a leg.

That's what I'm hoping so too, would be cheap and easy and I believe the Indy shop I took it to told me I needed an update but that was before I really understood why the cars need updates will have to call them back and tell them I'm ready for that update thank you!
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      09-20-2018, 06:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...2008 E92 328i with the N51 SULEV engine. A few months back I was idling in my girlfriends driveway for ~20 minutes perfectly fine, when all the sudden my cars engine hesitates and starts idling really rough, almost about to die then I get the limp mode/half engine power message...I turned the engine off and on again and it started up fine with the exception of the service engine soon light...one single code, 2A38...I cleared the code and haven't had any problems since
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...I have ISTA installed
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...I came upon this random article...talks about the 2A38 code and says it might occur after idling for a long period of time (which is what I was doing ), and is a result of a DME software calibration error and says the fix is to reprogram the car to the newest version so I'm assuming it needs an update?
Several observations:
1) Bentley definition of 2A38: "P1030 | 2A38 | VVT Control Motor Position Control Deviation (Bank1)." Since the P-code begins with "P1" (as opposed to P0 or P2) that means it is a "BMW-specific" or "manufacturer-specific" code, and I would ONLY trust INPA, ISTA, or other reliable source for the definition. You are likely to just go in circles chasing the code on the idea that "It has SOMETHING to do with Valvetronic"
Did you get the definition you quote with ISTA or is that definition from some other souce, either online or some Non-BMW-Specific scan tool?

2) If the SES light came on when the 2A38 code was saved in DME Memory, you cleared the code, and it has NEVER returned, then I would not be terribly concerned about it. BEFORE you cleared that code, did you check to see if 2A38 is supposed to light a warning lamp, and if it was still present? If ISTA does NOT give you that information, INPA does, and you might try that in the future.

3) If BMW possibly put out a Service Bulletin on the issue (?), and since it is an N51 SULEV (perhaps still under SULEV warranty), I would check with a Dealer or two in your area and see if there is any prescribed software update. If NOT, I would just routinely check for any codes every 3 to 6 months (which is good practice anyway), and NOT waste time/money chasing a transient & perhaps one-time software hiccup.

4) Oh, and try just starting the engine every 5 or 10 minutes to run the Defrost/Climate Control.

George

1) The definition I quote is from the ISTA software I have on my laptop and received from when the car did have the check engine light, I also used the CarlyforBMW app as well and got round about the same definition just less descriptive than what ISTA gave me, CarlyforBMW said it was 'sluggish, binding or open circuit' and then ISTA gave me round about the same thing just can't remember the exact description unfortunately. (I'd like to know where you got this Bentley manual, seems like it would be a lot easier to diagnose codes with a book or PDF describing them!)

2) I never had a check engine light before that, and when I hooked up ISTA to the car and ran the tests i had that 2A38 code for the valvetronic issue from the night before then another code for an AUC Sensor having to do with the automatic air quality detection, which kept coming back, but once I cleared the 2A38 code it hasn't came back and I've never had a CEL since then, it's been about ~2 months since then (knock on wood). It has felt like it has lost its oomph like the valvetronic isn't operating correctly, I get an occasional rough idle but I know that's a common thing with the N51, but I have very limited knowledge of the whole valvetronic system, WOT runs still go fine with maybe the exception of slower shifts but it'll still run through the gears easily.

3) Yeah I'm not sure if that was a bulletin from BMW or what but it seemed more like something from a manual with the proper diagnoses and how to fix the error code. When I went to an Indy shop to diagnose the problem they said my car needed an update and and to relearn the valvetronic limit positions (which I did successfully on ISTA to no avail), so I figured the update wouldn't do much so I didn't have him do it, but you think it would be worth it to have him update it and relearn the limit positions? He wanted something like $150 for the whole thing. I'm hoping it was a one time issue, it's been bothering me I've never been able to find a solution.

4) I barely let it idle any longer then it needs to now, sometimes I even consider killing the engine waiting in line for some drive-through places

I appreciate the detailed response greatly!! Love these forums for all the dedicated people that share the BMW love
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      10-05-2018, 05:38 PM   #9
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Just to keep the thread updated, I started looking into the SULEV warranty on my car, and long story short took my car to BMW North Scottsdale to replace a leaking VCG that was covered under the SULEV warranty, and they found oil inside the pins of my eccentric shaft sensor and replaced that and the valve cover gasket set under warranty, and paid for my rental car. Floored it on the way home in about 50 degree weather and dang she is definitely back now thank you for all the help!
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      10-06-2018, 12:28 AM   #10
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Bentley Manual & Other E9x References

Quote:
Originally Posted by CameroN7887 View Post
...I'd like to know where you got this Bentley manual, seems like it would be a lot easier to diagnose codes with a book or PDF describing them!
Bentley Manual in searchable pdf format, so you can just press "Ctrl+Shft+F" and enter a P-code or BMW FC and immediately see the definition (IF it is in Bentley -- most DME codes are, but other module codes are NOT -- need INPA or ISTA for those):
http://www.georgebelton.com/335i.tech/bentley.php

Attached is a pdf with a list of links to various E9x references, including the Bentley Manual, TIS Online Manual, BMW Training Manuals, etc. Please let me know if any of the links no longer work, or if you have other goodies to add to the list.

George
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