[Hunter3]

What's up guys been doing some research on turbo upgrades and wondering what you guys are running and how much power to expect. I have a 2013 e92 335xi FBO with a tune at the moment and I love it but after having this setup for some time now I think I wana go bigger. Been seeing pure stage 2 turbo is highly recommended and seems to be reliable for this set up that I'm running any input on that ? Also what kind of performance gains I should be expecting as well as supporting mods maybe I should add to help this thing run better once installed. Coil pack, spark plugs.... ect. Any input would be appreciated !

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

What's up guys been doing some research on turbo upgrades and wondering what you guys are running and how much power to expect. I have a 2013 e92 335xi FBO with a tune at the moment and I love it but after having this setup for some time now I think I wana go bigger. Been seeing pure stage 2 turbo is highly recommended and seems to be reliable for this set up that I'm running any input on that ? Also what kind of performance gains I should be expecting as well as supporting mods maybe I should add to help this thing run better once installed. Coil pack, spark plugs.... ect. Any input would be appreciated !

Pure Stage 2 Turbo is probably the most comon and reliable hybrid turbo upgrade.

I don't have it so I will let people with PS2 give you more specific insight but I will let you know that you should probably get a custome tune with it to really take advantage of your new turbo, if not it will probably a wasted investment. Gapped plugs will probably also be used along with some fueling upgrade if you can (In order to max out your gain from this mod)

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

What's up guys been doing some research on turbo upgrades and wondering what you guys are running and how much power to expect. I have a 2013 e92 335xi FBO with a tune at the moment and I love it but after having this setup for some time now I think I wana go bigger. Been seeing pure stage 2 turbo is highly recommended and seems to be reliable for this set up that I'm running any input on that ? Also what kind of performance gains I should be expecting as well as supporting mods maybe I should add to help this thing run better once installed. Coil pack, spark plugs.... ect. Any input would be appreciated !

It really depending on what your goals are. You will sacrifice a little spool for a lot more boost up top. I ran the V2 PS2 up to its limit and I have the V3 PS2 on a pump gas and methanol tune. Like me you will be limited by your HPFP should you decide to use ethanol or even race fuel. If you only want to run pump gas and you aren't interested in adding a methanol kit, then I would actually recommend you skip the PS2 and find a larger turbo. Although the turbo is fun on pump gas you won’t really feel like it was worth the cost and install if you're not at least running methanol with your pump gas.

As for things you need to do before running the PS2, you've pretty much have it all. I assume, and hope, you're not still running the stock plugs. I'm running the NKGs gapped to 0.022 and haven't had any issues. Upgrade coils isn't something I would consider until you have an issue with the stock ones. It will be cheaper to upgrade rather than buy new OEM ones again. HPFP depends on your goals and access to ethanol.

I did dyno my 335i once with the PS2, tune wasn't really dialed in and they strapped it down poorly, so I was spinning on the dyno. It put down 430whp and like 357wtq (spinning). That was at 17 psi with low timing. This is about what I would expect out of 93 octane. Given you're AWD you should factor less. Add a methanol kit though and you would probably be around that 440awhp figure. Chose to upgrade the HPFP and run an ethanol blend and you can get up to 500awhp.

Again, it all comes back to what you want out of the car.

[Hunter3]

Originally Posted by Turbod

It really depending on what your goals are. You will sacrifice a little spool for a lot more boost up top. I ran the V2 PS2 up to its limit and I have the V3 PS2 on a pump gas and methanol tune. Like me you will be limited by your HPFP should you decide to use ethanol or even race fuel. If you only want to run pump gas and you aren't interested in adding a methanol kit, then I would actually recommend you skip the PS2 and find a larger turbo. Although the turbo is fun on pump gas you won’t really feel like it was worth the cost and install if you're not at least running methanol with your pump gas.

As for things you need to do before running the PS2, you've pretty much have it all. I assume, and hope, you're not still running the stock plugs. I'm running the NKGs gapped to 0.022 and haven't had any issues. Upgrade coils isn't something I would consider until you have an issue with the stock ones. It will be cheaper to upgrade rather than buy new OEM ones again. HPFP depends on your goals and access to ethanol.

I did dyno my 335i once with the PS2, tune wasn't really dialed in and they strapped it down poorly, so I was spinning on the dyno. It put down 430whp and like 357wtq (spinning). That was at 17 psi with low timing. This is about what I would expect out of 93 octane. Given you're AWD you should factor less. Add a methanol kit though and you would probably be around that 440awhp figure. Chose to upgrade the HPFP and run an ethanol blend and you can get up to 500awhp.

Again, it all comes back to what you want out of the car.

Originally Posted by Turbod

It really depending on what your goals are. You will sacrifice a little spool for a lot more boost up top. I ran the V2 PS2 up to its limit and I have the V3 PS2 on a pump gas and methanol tune. Like me you will be limited by your HPFP should you decide to use ethanol or even race fuel. If you only want to run pump gas and you aren't interested in adding a methanol kit, then I would actually recommend you skip the PS2 and find a larger turbo. Although the turbo is fun on pump gas you won't really feel like it was worth the cost and install if you're not at least running methanol with your pump gas.

As for things you need to do before running the PS2, you've pretty much have it all. I assume, and hope, you're not still running the stock plugs. I'm running the NKGs gapped to 0.022 and haven't had any issues. Upgrade coils isn't something I would consider until you have an issue with the stock ones. It will be cheaper to upgrade rather than buy new OEM ones again. HPFP depends on your goals and access to ethanol.

I did dyno my 335i once with the PS2, tune wasn't really dialed in and they strapped it down poorly, so I was spinning on the dyno. It put down 430whp and like 357wtq (spinning). That was at 17 psi with low timing. This is about what I would expect out of 93 octane. Given you're AWD you should factor less. Add a methanol kit though and you would probably be around that 440awhp figure. Chose to upgrade the HPFP and run an ethanol blend and you can get up to 500awhp.

Again, it all comes back to what you want out of the car.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply I appreciate all the advice ! So I wasn't really thinking of getting into ethanol or racing fuel just yet. I did dabble with e85 a little bit when I was running jb4 and definitely loved how it felt even though it was only a few gallons since I don't have upgraded lines and fuel pump. With that being said now I'm having some doubts about the pure stage 2 if you're claiming it's not worth it just on it's own. Do you have any suggestions for bigger turbos that would grant more power without the need for upgrading my hpfp and running e85 ? The thing is it's definitely an option to run e85 I'm the future I have a gas station 10 minutes from me that sells it and 91 pump everywhere else. But for the time being until I upgrade the fuel pump I just figured a turbo upgrade would be the best bet to get the ball rolling. Ideally 500whp would be the end goal. But who knows even after I achieve that I'm sure I'll want more we always do 😂

[jlegelis]

Turbod can you clarify the statement:
>>"If you only want to run pump gas and you aren't interested in adding a methanol kit, then I would actually recommend you skip the PS2 and find a larger turbo"?

My N55 PS2 V3 is already octane-limited on pump gas, so how would going to an even larger turbo with more theoretical boost improve the situation? Can you clarify the physics? thx.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by jlegelis

Turbod can you clarify the statement:
>>"If you only want to run pump gas and you aren't interested in adding a methanol kit, then I would actually recommend you skip the PS2 and find a larger turbo"?

My N55 PS2 V3 is already octane-limited on pump gas, so how would going to an even larger turbo with more theoretical boost improve the situation? Can you clarify the physics? thx.

Larger turbos can flow more air. Higher CFM means more air can make it into the combustion chamber. At the same PSI you will make more power with a larger turbo. Higher pressures mean higher heat so you wont be able to run much more boost on a larger turbo but you will make more power at the same boost level. The manifold on the PS2 is the same on the stock unit. It is pretty restrictive. By going with a "stage 3" option you will free up this restriction and make more power at the same boost level.

In the end it comes down to the OPs goals. You will often spool slower with a larger turbo.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

Thank you so much for the detailed reply I appreciate all the advice ! So I wasn't really thinking of getting into ethanol or racing fuel just yet. I did dabble with e85 a little bit when I was running jb4 and definitely loved how it felt even though it was only a few gallons since I don't have upgraded lines and fuel pump. With that being said now I'm having some doubts about the pure stage 2 if you're claiming it's not worth it just on it's own. Do you have any suggestions for bigger turbos that would grant more power without the need for upgrading my hpfp and running e85 ? The thing is it's definitely an option to run e85 I'm the future I have a gas station 10 minutes from me that sells it and 91 pump everywhere else. But for the time being until I upgrade the fuel pump I just figured a turbo upgrade would be the best bet to get the ball rolling. Ideally 500whp would be the end goal. But who knows even after I achieve that I'm sure I'll want more we always do 😂

Contact Pure and ask about their "stage 3" solution. I honestly expected it to be announced by now.

[Ozzie335i]

How much do you want, and the old adage still holds true... How much have you got? Welcome to the chase Hunter.

[jlegelis]

Completely agree with Turbod and Ozzie335i : you need to decide what you want the car to be eg fast DD, drag car, or track car, etc as all warrant different setups and compromises. IOW there's no single right answer, so you first need to determine 'what success looks like' before randomly bolting stuff up.

The objective for my build was a reliable, fast & stealthy DD using straight pump 93 or occasional E30 blend. Sure I'm leaving gobs of power on the table, but I need to get to work every day without needing to borrow my wife's car when I've broken something. IOW: 'Speed costs money, how fast do you wanna go?' YMMV.

[Hunter3]

@Ozzie335i Turbod jlegelis I appreciate all your input on the matter ! I currently have a work vehicle to commute into the city or my motorcycle. So I'm only occasionally taking the bmw. So I guess it's more of a weekend warrior type deal. My goal would be reliability of course first which lucky enough I've had no issues with. But to also just simply add more power than I already have with fbo on 91 pump gas to have some spirited drives and any competition on the highways (in Mexico of course). The power I have now with all the upgrades have felt so good for so long and they still make me happy but I just want more at the end of the day. I would eventually like to get it on the track but I can't see that being a very regular thing for me. But for sure something I'd like to do and have been dying to do it for years. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if the turbo upgrade is worth it on its own or do I need the hpfp upgrade while running E85 to really feel like it was worth it in the long run.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

@Ozzie335i Turbod jlegelis I appreciate all your input on the matter ! I currently have a work vehicle to commute into the city or my motorcycle. So I'm only occasionally taking the bmw. So I guess it's more of a weekend warrior type deal. My goal would be reliability of course first which lucky enough I've had no issues with. But to also just simply add more power than I already have with fbo on 91 pump gas to have some spirited drives and any competition on the highways (in Mexico of course). The power I have now with all the upgrades have felt so good for so long and they still make me happy but I just want more at the end of the day. I would eventually like to get it on the track but I can't see that being a very regular thing for me. But for sure something I'd like to do and have been dying to do it for years. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if the turbo upgrade is worth it on its own or do I need the hpfp upgrade while running E85 to really feel like it was worth it in the long run.

If you're only running the stock turbo on 91 and haven't run it on higher octane you should notice a significant improvement. You would enjoy the upgrade. If you are looking for set it and forget it then the PS2 is nice. on 91 octane you'll probably land around 390-400awhp. Right now I would assume you're around 330awhp

[Hunter3]

@Turbod my bad I meant 93 octane here in NY not 91. On 93 how much do you figure it would make ? I haven't gotten it on a dyno but FBO with tune is only getting you 330whp ? Feels a good amount faster than that I'm a bit surprised. Either way if I can get up to 400 with just the turbo upgrade I'd be a very happy man. 70 more HP sounds pretty damn good to me. But now you got me curious on the PS3 I'm gonna send them over an email and see if I can get any info.

[jlegelis]

Hunter3 Do you have logs from your current setup? Like my car (also a 2013 N55) you have the 'later' model HPFP, which doesn't flow as well as the earlier pump. At elevated boost the HPFP simply cannot keep up with rail pressure and will crash, trigger faults in the car. See this log for an example from my original FBO setup - the purple line the the fuel pressure crashing.

In short, you'll absolutely need to upgrade the HPFP for an XDI or Dorch to properly fuel the PS2.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

@Turbod my bad I meant 93 octane here in NY not 91. On 93 how much do you figure it would make ? I haven't gotten it on a dyno but FBO with tune is only getting you 330whp ? Feels a good amount faster than that I'm a bit surprised. Either way if I can get up to 400 with just the turbo upgrade I'd be a very happy man. 70 more HP sounds pretty damn good to me. But now you got me curious on the PS3 I'm gonna send them over an email and see if I can get any info.

Well in your first post you said XI which would be AWD. Under your profile on "Drives" you say 335i which is RWD. People were putting down around 430whp on 93 for RWD. You will not make as much with AWD. It isn't something you can guess with accuracy. Most PWG people were about 380-390whp running E mixed and maxing out the stock turbo. That should be easily doable on pump gas with the PS2.

[Hunter3]

Originally Posted by jlegelis

Hunter3 Do you have logs from your current setup? Like my car (also a 2013 N55) you have the 'later' model HPFP, which doesn't flow as well as the earlier pump. At elevated boost the HPFP simply cannot keep up with rail pressure and will crash, trigger faults in the car. See this log for an example from my original FBO setup - the purple line the the fuel pressure crashing.

In short, you'll absolutely need to upgrade the HPFP for an XDI or Dorch to properly fuel the PS2.

jlegelis I don't have any current logs for my car I did when I was running JB4 but since the flash tune I haven't ran any logs. Might have to look into an upgrade for the HPFP then at some point. I've heard some people going on "Fuel-IT for some solid upgrades maybe I'll take a look.

[Hunter3]

@Turbod I didn't even realize I put i instead of XI in my profile lmao just switched it. Yes it's an xdrive model and I knew AWD cars lost a good amount more than RWD just wasn't sure how much actually. But around 400 with the ps2 on just 93 sounds great and leaves room to upgrade the HPFP and mess around with some E for even more power later if I want it. Pretty much exactly what I'm looking for at the moment.

[Hunter3]

@jlegelis as you said we both have a late model version of the car would you be able to tell me if I have a PWG or did we make it into the EWG section of cars ?

[jlegelis]

It's PWG definitely.

BTW, 2013 cars are limited by HPFP, not LPFP so don't waste your time / effort on Fuel-It LPFP upgrades (been there, done that). To be clear, the HPFP *must* be upgraded before you throw in a PS2. I'm two years in to my journey and have the arrows in the back to prove it.

Here's my latest PS2 E30 log, 24lb boost. Even with XDI there's a slight dip in rail pressure at boost onset, but not a problem - the stock pump would never handle that. Car pulls like a freight train compared to stock - mind you this is a reliable DD, not a top-mount drag strip special so expectation setting is important.

I also suggest you grab some baseline logs before you start making changes... hard to know how much you've improved if you don't know where your started.

[Turbod]

Jlegelis is right that you're PWG. Also that the HPFP is a limitation before the LPFP. The HPFP upgrade being a must before install isn't the case. Let your tuner know. They will lower boost and give you a little more timing. I'm on my third revision with the V3 on this car and boost hits 18 psi and tapers to 16.5 up top. If I recall that is with about 7 degrees of ignition advance up top. Rail pressure is 2,700 - 3,000

If you ever want to mess with ethanol or run more boost though then you will need a HPFP upgrade.

[Hunter3]

Originally Posted by Turbod

Jlegelis is right that you're PWG. Also that the HPFP is a limitation before the LPFP. The HPFP upgrade being a must before install isn't the case. Let your tuner know. They will lower boost and give you a little more timing. I'm on my third revision with the V3 on this car and boost hits 18 psi and tapers to 16.5 up top. If I recall that is with about 7 degrees of ignition advance up top. Rail pressure is 2,700 - 3,000

If you ever want to mess with ethanol or run more boost though then you will need a HPFP upgrade.

@Turbod thank you for all the information I really appreciate the advice and help. One more question for you... for now at least lol I'm looking at the ps2 and it's asking for a core deposit and I have to send them my turbo ? Kinda confused about all that and there's an option to just pay 500 to get it ? Could you dumb this down for me so I understand 😂

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

@Turbod thank you for all the information I really appreciate the advice and help. One more question for you... for now at least lol I'm looking at the ps2 and it's asking for a core deposit and I have to send them my turbo ? Kinda confused about all that and there's an option to just pay 500 to get it ? Could you dumb this down for me so I understand 😂

The Pure stage 2 turbo is a machined out stock turbo. They have core charges so they can take your stock turbo and make it into a future Pure stage 2 turbo. You can opt to pay their core charge or, once you remove the turbo from your car after installing the Pure stage 2, send back the stock unit in the same packaging. You will need to pay the core charge up front and have it refunded once they receive your stock turbo. You will also pay to ship the unit to them. This is how it worked when I bought mine.

For this reason some people like to buy used turbos. If you're planning to install yourself and would want to return the car to stock when you plan to sell then I would pay the core charge and hold on to the stock turbo. If you're paying a shop to install then I would just send in your core and not think about it again. You can buy other stock turbos and send that in as the core. You can also buy another stock on to return your car to stock if you plan to sell. Just need to do what makes the most sense to you.

[Hunter3]

Originally Posted by Turbod

The Pure stage 2 turbo is a machined out stock turbo. They have core charges so they can take your stock turbo and make it into a future Pure stage 2 turbo. You can opt to pay their core charge or, once you remove the turbo from your car after installing the Pure stage 2, send back the stock unit in the same packaging. You will need to pay the core charge up front and have it refunded once they receive your stock turbo. You will also pay to ship the unit to them. This is how it worked when I bought mine.

For this reason some people like to buy used turbos. If you're planning to install yourself and would want to return the car to stock when you plan to sell then I would pay the core charge and hold on to the stock turbo. If you're paying a shop to install then I would just send in your core and not think about it again. You can buy other stock turbos and send that in as the core. You can also buy another stock on to return your car to stock if you plan to sell. Just need to do what makes the most sense to you.

@Turbod what do you mean by machined ? Also what even is the "core" like what exactly do they take out of our stock turbo to put in the other turbo ? Still kind of confused. I wouldn't want someone else's random core to be put into mine doesn't that defeat the purpose what if another core had more wear and tear by the previous owner of said core. My plan is to have a shop install it and get a dyno tune at the same time. So if that's the case your suggestion would be pay the 500 for the core already in it then send mine out to them when it gets taken out ?