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      10-15-2015, 10:06 AM   #67
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or the use of a 3.5-litre twin-turbo V6
Now that sounds more appealing

Maybe F1 cars will finally be more powerful than road cars again.
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      10-15-2015, 11:46 AM   #68
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I don't feel that 2 years in is the 'first sign of an issue'.

I do feel they need at least one engine manufacturer who aren't also effectively running their own team, as obviously this is where the issue has arisen. For a long time Mercedes' greatest threat has been Williams, purely because they run the same engines.
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      10-15-2015, 12:23 PM   #69
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I don't feel that 2 years in is the 'first sign of an issue'.

I do feel they need at least one engine manufacturer who aren't also effectively running their own team, as obviously this is where the issue has arisen. For a long time Mercedes' greatest threat has been Williams, purely because they run the same engines.
The danger is as has already been seen, that the Works Team simply control who is competitive. The other Merc teams had inferior engines to MGP at Sochi because Petronas hadnt made enough fuel!!!! Yeh ok then
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      10-15-2015, 01:34 PM   #70
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I'm sorry but this has to be a joke...Just because RedBull haven't got access to the best engine they want a whole new set of rules made for them???

Ferrari went for decades with no success, same with McLearn, Williams, Mercedes use to be Tyrrell...just about every single team on the grid.

If the guys running RedBull cannot man-up and keep on throwing their toys out of their pram like kids, than good riddance to them.
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      10-15-2015, 01:36 PM   #71
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You cant man up mate when the only way you can man up is blocked by the FIA. They made a mistake locking the engines down and now they are realising it.
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      10-15-2015, 02:14 PM   #72
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Seems like they have seen sense
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121347
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      10-16-2015, 01:15 AM   #73
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I like the idea of allowing the engines to be revised throughout the year , Honda and Renault have clearly struggled to get the best out of the last set of rules. What engine is the new Hass team using Ferrari ? . The engine token thing isn't really working but I guess if MB and F are two steps in front on engine development it will take some thing to catch up because they will be moving forward as well

Different tyre manufactures allowed again like Michelin and Bridgestone as well as Pirelli.


How about al the teams with identical chassis and just different engines ? .

Nothing is ever simple when Red Bull was winning CF had no issues when the engine was slightly of the Pace he throws a hissy he and DM are going to walk if they don't get the best engine deal , Lets be honest can you see Ferrari or Mercedes giving them a leg up ? . it won't happen and from my understanding the remaining teams are happy to run 3 car teams

I have total respect for Ferrari and Mercedes they have developed the whole package and at present have the cars to beat. Why doesn't RB develop there own engine ? . McLaren have developed there own Sports car engines since there split with Mercedes. Look at the way Williams go about there business quietly sourcing and refining the car and improving using different engine suppliers ,In the late 80s they was the team to beat , Could you imagine Frank or Patrick behaving like DM & CH ? , I don't want Sparky or anyone losing the jobs but threatening to quit the sport if they can't have it there way id have said see ya
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      10-16-2015, 03:28 AM   #74
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Could you imagine Frank or Patrick behaving like DM & CH ? , I don't want Sparky or anyone losing the jobs but threatening to quit the sport if they can't have it there way id have said see ya
100% agree, the chiefs at RedBull don't seem to realise you cannot be winning 100% of the time. Infact Ferrari has won less than 25% of races they've ever entered - Race entered/Race win ratio, RedBull is still ahead of Ferrari.

If DM and CH cannot understand the concept than they need to go and take up something less challenging. I suspect most other team managers are probably sick and tired of listening to their constant moaning....and probably most of the fans (I use to like RedBull!!)
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      10-16-2015, 05:26 AM   #75
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removed the proposed development lock for 2016. and retained 32 tokens instead of dropping to 25.

dismissed the option for different engine configurations (na V8 or TTv6). this seems to be shaping up to RedBull sticking with Renault....
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      10-16-2015, 11:59 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by gangzoom View Post
100% agree, the chiefs at RedBull don't seem to realise you cannot be winning 100% of the time. Infact Ferrari has won less than 25% of races they've ever entered - Race entered/Race win ratio, RedBull is still ahead of Ferrari.

If DM and CH cannot understand the concept than they need to go and take up something less challenging. I suspect most other team managers are probably sick and tired of listening to their constant moaning....and probably most of the fans (I use to like RedBull!!)
I agree 100% .
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      10-16-2015, 01:07 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by gangzoom View Post
100% agree, the chiefs at RedBull don't seem to realise you cannot be winning 100% of the time. Infact Ferrari has won less than 25% of races they've ever entered - Race entered/Race win ratio, RedBull is still ahead of Ferrari.

If DM and CH cannot understand the concept than they need to go and take up something less challenging. I suspect most other team managers are probably sick and tired of listening to their constant moaning....and probably most of the fans (I use to like RedBull!!)
Having the chance to be able to challenge for wins is all we want, with the engine rules as was, we had no chance, not a very good business model spending £300m a year knowing you cant win,
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      10-16-2015, 02:09 PM   #78
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IMO the problems are caused by the engine manufacturers and teams being too close.

The engines should be a seperate product, homologated as a standardised unit.

The very fact that both Ferrrari and Merc have refused to supply engines to a team, simply because that team would then challenge their own cars, shows exactly why the existing arrangement is broken, and basically means the only way your going to win anything is if your a works team.

Why should merc and ferrari be allowed to choose who can win or not? If they elect to give a team last years engine, then that team without doubt isnt winning anything.

Furthermore, the existing limit of 4 teams per engine (which they're hiding behind) doesnt work when you've only got two engines that actually work, and 11 teams.
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      10-16-2015, 11:24 PM   #79
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My Thoughts are it makes teams find solutions pushing the boundaries , If you produce a fabulous engine pack and a ok chassis and can win like say Ferrari and Mercedes, Why would you even think it was ok to be told to sell Red Bull or anybody a engine pack ,it would be like saying to Red Bull we want access to all your chassis data in case you have something we can use.


The only way is for the teams who buy engines to build or be allowed to modify last years engines why would Ferrari and MB help other teams , I would assume Fiat and MB have spent way more than the £300m RB have spent as they have had to both design a Engine and a chassis ,I believe I'm right in saying RB employ 800+ and Toro Rosso 350+ and the BBC ran a documentary on Mercedes and the Team and the figure was 1200 employed while I find that mind boggling and totally bonkers it is what it is.

I was also listening that Mclaren had offered to help Honda recruit some engine guys from MB due to there contacts from there 10+ yrs of working together ,I am sure C Horner could start from the back and build or modify engines and control there destiny instead of just bleating.
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      10-19-2015, 03:59 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooba0010 View Post
My Thoughts are it makes teams find solutions pushing the boundaries , If you produce a fabulous engine pack and a ok chassis and can win like say Ferrari and Mercedes, Why would you even think it was ok to be told to sell Red Bull or anybody a engine pack ,it would be like saying to Red Bull we want access to all your chassis data in case you have something we can use.
This is entirely my point though. The engine suppliers arent engine suppliers, they're race teams, and thus are making exactly those choices that you've suggested.

If the engine suppliers were NOT works teams, and instead were simply engine suppliers, then they wouldnt be saying "oh we cant give you an engine, your too good" they'd be saying "here, have our engine, its the best!"

Its a huge conflict of interest, and its stupid!

Teams have no choice but to buy one of the three available engine options. And if those three companies decide your chassis is better/equal to theirs and thus they're only going to give you a shite engine, how is that in any way fair?
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      10-19-2015, 03:12 PM   #81
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I'm sure Honda would be happy to sell them an engine or two
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      10-19-2015, 04:01 PM   #82
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Honda don't have the ability to support another team.
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      10-19-2015, 04:14 PM   #83
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Ha ha Honda don't even have the ability to support their own team!
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      10-20-2015, 01:08 AM   #84
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So what engines are Red Bull using in 2016 ?

The last time I really enjoyed F1 was when Nigel Mansel won it driving the williams . it all seams very complicated now too much BS
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      10-20-2015, 04:45 AM   #85
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I'm sure Honda would be happy to sell them an engine or two
Stranger things have happened.
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      10-21-2015, 03:14 AM   #86
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RB will be running Renaults next year. if not then ill eat a chocolate hat!
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      10-21-2015, 08:43 AM   #87
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Can I watch?
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      10-22-2015, 03:42 AM   #88
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Can I watch?
sure thing
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